Leadership has changed markedly in C-Suites in the past several years. While there are still hard-charging, my-way-or-the-highway bosses, those with high doses of emotional intelligence and empathy are finding those methods to be successful. In the latest episode of the “Can You Hear Me?” podcast, co-hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford discuss “Why Empathy is Crucial in Modern Leadership.
The Role of Empathy in Modern Leadership
Simon Sinek: "Leadership is not about being in charge. Leadership is about taking care of those in your charge."
Rob Johnson: [00:00:20] Hello again everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communication. [00:00:26][6.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:27] And I'm Eileen Rochford. I'm the CEO of the Harbinger Group, which is a marketing and strategy firm. On more than one occasion on this podcast, we have tackled the issue of empathy as it relates to success in the modern day C-suite. So today we will discuss why empathy is crucial in modern leadership. There is still the bosses who are hard charging and have it my way or the highway mentality. Don't we hate those? But increasingly, those leaders who have high emotional intelligence and empathy, they're seen as desirable leaders, the people we really want to work for. And why is that? That's what we're going to talk about today. [00:01:04][36.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:04] So why do we think it is? [00:01:05][0.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:06] I think it's because they're relatable. They're they demonstrate kindness. They demonstrate vulnerability. They're approachable. They're accessible. They don't try to be perfect. They the command and control kind of parenting style is also totally gone by the wayside. Right. So people in the workplace today just aren't accustomed to that, mentality of the my way or the highway, as we've said, in their upbringing, it was rejected. And therefore when they walk into the, the workplace, the workplace, whatever you want to call it, if someone acts that way, they're going to respond negatively. And I think that's why, increasingly, at a rapid pace, leaders are modifying for those who refuse to let go of that style, they're being jettisoned. They don't really belong in leadership positions anymore, because that's just not how things are working. Can't be successful. [00:01:54][48.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:55] And it's a little bit more old school. I think we would agree with that. And the things you're you're talking about here, which is, you know, collaboration and trust and things of that nature, it doesn't really foster that. So you have somebody saying, do what I do, what I tell you to do, just do it because I said to do it. And people don't respond to that. And, you know, it's not it's not a two way street. That's a one way street. And so what we're talking about is paving a two way street. [00:02:18][23.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:02:18] Absolutely. Totally agree with you. It's it's almost like you've just even in the last 5 to 10 years, the balance of, the those that remain in the workplace who have that leadership style have exited or been exited very quickly. At as rapid of a pace as the new employees, new, you know, workers have entered who have been raised in a very different environment. You can see that balance. You know, the shift taking place. [00:02:45][26.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:45] I have to tell you, I think you're spot on there, Eileen, because I've seen a couple of people that were hanging on with that style that were sort of, you know, not part of the future because of that style. And because I know I'm not saying that was the only reason I'm going to say it was one of the major reasons they didn't have success and didn't weren't able to stay at a particular company. And the people that they were replaced by had that emotional intelligence component and had that empathy, whereas the folks who got pushed out didn't. [00:03:15][29.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:03:15] Yeah. And if you think about it, even in school environments where so outside I've mentioned parenting and how people entering the workforce now or who even have been in for the last ten plus years, they didn't experience that style at home, and they definitely didn't experience it in the classroom, not nearly to the degree of the generation before them, because teachers have been taught to be to teach differently for quite a while now. So, you can imagine why that rejection is so severe when younger folks, in, you know, the younger two generations come to the workplace. They just said, that's not how we communicate. That's not how we've been taught to establish trust. Right? That's not how, we learn to believe in people. So it makes a lot of sense. It's a shift that's just been gradual, but it's evident. And now I think they're dinosaurs. Yeah. No, there's no denying it. [00:04:09][54.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:04:09] There's no denying it now it's it's there, you know. [00:04:11][2.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:04:12] Yeah. Absolutely. [00:04:12][0.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:04:14] So we want to quote, author and motivational speaker Simon Sinek, who we've referenced on this podcast before, Eileen. [00:04:22][7.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:04:22] Said, I mean, he's like ubiquitous. [00:04:24][1.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:04:25] What's that? [00:04:25][0.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:04:25] I said that he's everywhere he's ubiquitous. [00:04:28][2.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:04:29] And this is a really terrific quote. Leadership is not about being in charge. It's about taking care of those in your charge. Now, the reason we're using that quote is that it was the beginning of an article by Dilip Patel called The Role of Empathy in Modern Leadership. That was on medium, which is an idea sharing website. So we're going to take some of his concepts, Patel's, and then add our own color and information and experiences to make it relevant to all of you who are listening. How's that sound Eileen? [00:04:57][28.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:04:58] I love it. Let's do that. I mean, between the two of us, we've been working forever. Oh, we certainly know there's dynamics. [00:05:03][5.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:05:04] So. So what I didn't want to do is like, here's this article and here's what he said. I wanted to frame it around it, but I wanted to take his ideas. And then we share our experiences around those particular ideas because they're very important, I think, to this conversation. [00:05:16][11.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:16] Yeah. And it was a great article. I really. Liked how he put his concepts together and framed them. [00:05:22][5.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:05:23] No doubt. [00:05:23][0.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:23] So one of the things that he brought up, which I'll. That'll be the first point that I'll raise, is that empathy has always been seen as a soft skill, which is interesting. When you say soft skill, are they always is highly valued, you know, that kind of people kind of felt that emotional, softer side was, you know, a nice to have, not a must have. But I think we see that shifting, so that soft skill of empathy is increasingly recognized as honestly a critical component of effective leadership. According to Patel. So, you know, the words soft and skill, it's definitely had the negative connotation. As I've mentioned now, I think it's almost as if you don't have empathy in the way that you communicate. People immediately shut down. It's the response is, what is wrong with that person? How can they possibly be ignoring the situation that's unfolding directly before their eyes? That's that's a horrible marker of leadership. And I have a great example. If you want to hear it, you want. [00:06:20][57.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:06:21] oh yeah, of course. [00:06:21][0.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:06:22] Okay. Here we go. So, very recently and I mentioned this to you earlier today, Rob, in Northeast Ohio, where I am now, this is last week, there were 400,000 people without power in the region, and it was due to four, F1 tornadoes that ripped through here within, I think, about 30 minutes as well as, I think it was called a microburst or something. So horrible things all happen in at once. More than, I believe 300 electric, poles and lines were ripped out, decimated in that span, and thus huge repercussions when you don't have power. Right? And this is unfolding day by day and FirstEnergy is communicating. This could be a very long outage. As long as, you know, eight, nine days. That's an extremely long period of time for people, you know, especially in summer when you're at the risk of high heat. And, of course, the elderly, you don't have access to oxygen, you don't have access to refrigeration for their medications. You know, just think about to see that thread through and you'll realize it's a very serious situation. So the governor of the state of Ohio didn't have a darn thing to say about it for almost three full days. Not even. And oh boy, I feel for the 400,000 constituents of our state and what they're enduring. And, you know, people can live without power. It's not pleasant. But honestly, there are some people who are in very serious, you know, health risk situations like I've mentioned. So to not hear a thing from a leader in that position. To express even the most basic human elements of empathy immediately makes you think less of that leader. Rightly so, in my opinion. [00:07:52][90.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:07:52] Because because that's a shared experience so many people went through and it was so horrific. And you want to know that your leaders, the people in charge, you know, sort of feel your pain, as it were. Yeah. And then to say nothing, it's like, you know, what are we, chopped liver? I mean, that's got to be. And again, when we talk about some of these issues and, and there isn't a, you know, emotional intelligence component to it, as we've already mentioned a little bit, it's like, how could you not express that to people? How could you not express that empathy? I don't know what you went through. Didn't happen in my neighborhood, but as as a decent person. Don't you go, that's horrible. When you told me, I'm like, well, I can't relate to that right now. But you know what? That is horrible. I mean, we've all been through bad storm, but I don't think I've been through four tornadoes that ripped, you know, the surrounding areas to shreds. I mean, that's that's that's frightening. So that's empathy that I can share with you. That's authentic. [00:08:44][52.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:08:46] Absolutely. [00:08:46][0.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:08:46] Me. But it's about, how could you not if you were the leader of, you know, say, the state of Ohio? [00:08:50][4.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:08:51] Yeah. So you, you know, the Simon Sinek quote that that was shared is the opening of Patel's article. It's about taking care of those in your charge. That's exactly right. You're a caregiver to a degree when you're an elected official. Absolutely. When you are, you know, in a for profit or even a nonprofit organization, you are literally taking care of the people who work for your organization, the constituents that they serve, and on and on and on. So to to not react with empathy to any major situation, whether, you know, similar to the the example that I just gave or something that may have affected, directly, people who work for you that, you know, they feel very upset about to kind of just walk into a meeting and gloss over that and just be business as usual. You've just taken a bunch of deposits out of your trust bank with them, and they're going to feel like, ooh, I don't know how strongly I can connect with this individual anymore. And the next time that you come out with a communication that's important that you really want them to hear, they're going to be there's going to be a bias present in how they receive that information from you. And I think that's the number one reason why leaders need to work. And it requires work from the vast majority to learn how to demonstrate empathy in that way and to, you know, open up and expose yourself as a leader to connect with people. That's a huge part of it. So and. [00:10:13][81.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:10:13] And it's and it's great that you brought that up, Eileen, because in this article, Patel has highlighted five ways empathy can transform. Warm leadership, and you were kind of dancing around the whole issue of the first one here, which is when you have the empathy, it can transform the leadership. And, and obviously and the first in the first way is building stronger relationships. And I think that's what you were just talking about. And I thought that was a this is a perfect segue to discuss those strong relationships. When you show the empathy, when you show that you have that, you know, the e-gene, as it were. It's going to build strong relationships because people are going to respond in a more positive way, which is what you were talking about with, you know, taking, you know, you know, the trust bank is going to be depleted if you don't do it. And if you do do it, what's going to happen? You're going to build up deposits, you know? [00:11:01][47.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:11:01] Absolutely true. I, I remember when I was working, at Ketchum and the general manager there is he was Peter Fleischer. And I remember being so intrigued by him because from the minute I met him, I just wanted to, like, be around him all the time. I was like, wow, this is, you know, this charismatic, leader ish qualities, definitely. But more so, he started every interaction with whether it was a group meeting or one on one with, how are you doing? Tell me what you did last night. Tell me what you did this weekend and then was deeply interested. You wanted to hear all about it. [00:11:37][35.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:11:37] He wasn't he wasn't looking past you. He was engaged with what was going on. [00:11:40][3.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:11:40] Yeah. And it didn't take long to take, you know, the minutes to for him to explore and learn about. But the value of those interactions were just it was just so high. So I paid really close attention to how Peter conducted himself as a leader. And I never saw him go wrong. And I and he had some really rough bumps in the road, you know, layoff experiences definitely in the period that I was there, which is, you know, five years, I think. But even when those happened, the people who were left in didn't trust him any less or, want to like, you know, go through fire for him any less because he was just so good at handling it from a true perspective of humanity. So that's what I mean. I I'll often find myself asking, like, how what would Peter do here? How would he answer this? Or how would he behave? Yeah, it's funny, but it's true. There's certain people you just come across, you know, in your professional life who you realize I really better pay attention to this person. There's just great at this. And I and I could do really well by adopting a lot of the ways that they, you know, conduct themselves. [00:12:46][66.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:12:47] And what he did was show great emotional intelligence because, you know, when, back in my days of, asking questions for a living all the time, for the news, you get people to talk about themselves. But typically that's everybody's favorite topic, talking about themselves. And they open up and they get comfortable and you're listening and you're listening to certain cues that they're giving, and that's building those relationships. And so that's it's really smart. Not everybody does it. People I don't have time for that. And it's like, how much time is that really going to take to let that person kind of share a little bit about themselves, talk about themselves, get comfortable talking to you because your interaction is going to be far better, I think, when you build a strong relationship. [00:13:29][41.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:13:29] Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. It's a it takes a little bit of time and effort, and even if it doesn't come naturally to you, it is something you can learn how to do. I'm a perfect example that it definitely doesn't come naturally, but I've learned by trying and kind of getting out of my comfort zone, you know, increasingly, over time, that I like it. I like learning about people. I like feeling like, you know, I understand them better. It's it's made things. Yes. It's made our relationship stronger. Certainly with the people I work with on our team. And we all just kind of function better as a team when that's present. So empathy first, you know, is definitely, a good way to go. But it was something I had to learn. [00:14:09][39.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:14:09] Oh, sure. So but the important thing you're saying here, Eileen, is why, while it might have been natural for me to do it because of, you know, what I used to do, and now it's just something that's baked into what I do. It wasn't for you, but you taught yourself how to do it. You didn't teach yourself empathy. You taught yourself how to have those people open up to you, which shows empathy so that there's a difference there, right? [00:14:29][19.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:14:29] Yeah. And also to just think of others first was something that, I genuinely had to kind of model, like, watch other people do it and then model it and see, wow, this really improve the situation. Know. So I'm just saying for those who perhaps it doesn't come naturally to it, I'm, I'm a living proof that, you know, you can you can learn it. It's still always going to feel a little bit like, you know, work compared to you Rob who? You do it so effortlessly. Thank you. But I still think, you know, people like me stand a chance and can, bring empathy, the the ability to think of others like, wait, how much they be? How must they be feeling right now? Yeah. Let's just before I launch into this health, you know, business as usual, let me just find out, you know, and then once you know, someone often gets it off their chest or allows. Is allowed to kind of bring that, dimension of themselves. And, I guess what I'm saying is they can move forward better and faster and more effectively than if we just ignored it, you know? So anyway, that's one way of looking at it. So the next point that Patel brought up in his article is how empathy enhances communication. And I think, like I mentioned earlier, one way that I believe it's very helpful is when a leader is empathetic and approaches a situation with, gosh, you know, that must be really hard for you. Or tell me more about that because I really want to understand it. You are you're building up trust. You're making it easier for them in the future to hear important messaging that you want them to hear, because if you just plow through, they'll kind of think, God you're a jerk. I don't, and their mind is going to be just caught up in the hey, you're a jerk! Instead of I'm hearing what they want me to hear right now, you know, so it's that give and take in relationship development because these pieces are building on each other. It's it's obvious. And this article helps with relationships. And then it also helps because you have a stronger relationship. It helps the recipient of the message that you know you said leader are imparting. It helps them receive it and hear it well because you've got a strong foundation. [00:16:33][123.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:16:33] The the we talk about this all the time. I lean about communicating and over you can't over communicate. And people get into trouble in all sorts of ways when they don't communicate properly. So when you have built that, relationship building the stronger relationship and that person feels like, oh, I can communicate with them, I can tell them things I might not have told them or, oh, I know it's okay to communicate certain things to them. It's going to open those lines and it's going to be more effective and it's going to help you, I think, as a, you know, as a, as a firm, as an employee or an employer to to be able to, you know, kind of get to the bottom of things because people would be more willing to share. And I don't think there's ever a time where I would say, oh, you shouldn't be communicating unless you're unless your internal monologue goes external and you say things that you should be keeping in your head. Short of that, I don't think you can overcommunicate. And I think that's a really important point in this whole discussion. [00:17:28][54.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:17:29] For sure for sure, the more dialog that you have, honestly, the more opportunities you have to be empathetic to learn about people through the empathy that you're demonstrating to build your trust and have the message that you're conveying be heard. Bottom line. [00:17:44][14.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:17:45] And so as we sat there and talked about building the stronger relationships, which enhances the communication, and you've already touched upon it a little bit, Eileen, the next thing is fostering a culture of trust and collaboration. So you're showing the empathy. People are feeling more comfortable. They feel like, oh gosh, I can trust this person, which is going to lead to more collaboration because you are communicating in a more effective way. See how it's all tied in together. The one definitely leads to the other. And when you once you've it's more than just I trust that person. I want to collaborate with them. Once you've created a culture of that in your company and everybody feels like, oh, it's okay, I trust that, I'm going to be taking care of, you know, or that people care about me at the very least, and it's going to allow me to collaborate more meaningfully. That's that's a win win. [00:18:34][48.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:18:35] I would just have one add there, which is, that that expression of, you know, bring your whole self to work. Right? To be able to do that and know I have an empathetic workplace, I have leaders who respect and accept me, for all the things that I am, whatever those things may be, you can walk into, whether it's their, brainstorm or whatever kind of meeting where ideation is required, you can walk in there and feel confident. I can share my ideas and they will be accepted. They will be heard. Maybe they won't be the thing that ends up being the, selected solution. That's okay. [00:19:12][37.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:19:13] But you'll be heard [00:19:13][0.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:14] I can exactly. I can share, and, there won't be deaf ears. There will be people nodding their heads and interested in what I have to say. And that's the place where real collaboration and ideation can occur. [00:19:26][12.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:19:27] I agree 100%. [00:19:27][0.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:28] Yeah, yeah. It's a really interesting topic how all these things are connected. Yeah. Important to, you know, just note that what we were just discussing about collaboration and the environment that has to exist for that to happen, you know, it's that bedrock of trust and relationships, all that. So you've got that. And then the next level almost if you think about this and, you know, maybe a video game or getting to the next level, is meaningful change. So because you have trust based on strong relationships, because you have, confidence and comfort, and the ability to collaborate because that's there, then that you kick open the door to meaningful change. So it's it's a beautiful thing. What empathy can do in your workplace, in your organization. It's it isn't just, oh, I'm a nice leader. It actually has. There's some incredible benefits to your operations and your culture. Truly. Like, transformational. [00:20:26][58.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:20:26] Yeah. And when we're talking about meaningful change, we're talking about you're talking about projects or bigger picture things or more strategic long term things as well, that you're trying to sell to the people that are on your team. And when you've done all these other things and then you want to make some meaningful change internally, which will then help you benefit externally, presumably. That's the idea behind it. You would be able to execute that probably in a more effective way, because you have set the table with these other, forms of empathy. Or there key components of empathy, I should say. [00:20:59][32.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:00] Or derivatives. [00:21:01][0.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:21:01] Derivatives. There you go. [00:21:02][1.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:03] Yeah. There's one way to look at it, too. Yeah. Great point. If you want to change the way things are being done in your company, and often that's, a Herculean task. Nobody likes change, right? Right. If you have all these other elements that we've just discussed present because you've really worked on them, then introducing change and getting the, necessary, you know, behavior adaptations to a buy in. It's so much easier. You know, like true buying. Absolutely. [00:21:31][28.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:21:32] Buy in that you want to get. It's easier to sell it when you've done all these other little things that when you add them up, become a big thing. [00:21:39][7.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:39] Right? So just think about that. Just asking the question of someone every time you see them and taking the minute to listen, the question, what did you do this weekend? Or you know, how are you doing? You know, how are you feeling right now? Everything good or what's up in listening to what their response is. It's amazing how that is your building block to all the levels we've just gone through, but most importantly, meaningful change. Because if you go and ask for meaningful change in a place where you have used perhaps some elements of that command control that we know is just bad, the likelihood that you're going to get the change you want to the degree that you're hoping for the benefit of your organization and your customers, that likelihood is very low. So think about that question. How can I how can I hear you today? How can I learn about you today? That's actually probably one of the most important things you're going to do all day. [00:22:31][51.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:22:31] And one final point about this, using your trust bank analogy of the trust bank is almost overdrawn. You have nothing to to draw out of it. You're not going to be able to sell meaningful change. Conversely, if you have built it up and you've got deposit after deposit after deposit after deposit, when you come to take a little bit out, when it comes to meaningful change, you're going to be able to do it in a much more, effective way. [00:22:54][22.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:22:55] No doubt. And I wish I could give credit to whoever came up with the trust bank concept initially, but I have no idea. [00:23:01][6.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:23:01] Well, for all intents and purposes on. Can you hear me? It's yours. It's your you know, you're built. You're building up the trust. The trust bank. [00:23:09][7.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:09] I have a vague memory of, when I first got married, reading a book about marriage and relationships and the concept of the trust bank being in that book, and I've never forgotten it is. It is. It's like the bedrock of any relationship, but especially a marriage, if you think about it. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. But I also remember, interestingly, that I mentioned Peter Fleischer earlier. I think I remember him using some kind of reference to trust Bank too. So funny that both of us. [00:23:36][27.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:23:37] He's coming up a lot and he's coming up big today. In today's episode. [00:23:39][2.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:40] He is. [00:23:40][0.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:23:40] Where we are without him. [00:23:42][1.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:42] So he'll never listen to this. So he's it's it's credit for just credit sake here people. [00:23:47][5.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:23:48] That. There's nothing else there. There's nothing else there. So the final point Patel makes, and as we add up all these things, is the final, most not most important point, but but the one we want to drive home here is promoting employee well-being. Yeah. And I Eileen, I know this we we talked about this on multiple occasions. I know this is a huge priority for you as CEO of the Harbinger Group, about making sure that your employees are well taken care of. And, and I can certainly see you having worked with them a lot, that they really respond to that, knowing that you care about them. That's what we're talking about. Why is that such a I mean, this is something you do day in and day out. Why is it such a priority for you? [00:24:29][40.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:29] Yeah, well, it's honestly, if your people aren't healthy and I don't mean your people like their possessions. They're not members of your team. Those who make your business successful, any business successful, they're not healthy. And some of that you can control or contribute to. And some of that you just can't. Right? That's true for all of us as individuals. Health is something that is genetic, but it's also just toss of the coin. You don't know what you're going to get that happens to everybody potentially. So if they're healthy, then health and happiness just create both a better work environment for all. But also people just can be their best and think their best thoughts, you know, write their best things, come up with their best, whatever, you know, graphic design and thinking, all the things that we do here, there's so many, just really come up with some genius, you know, strategic tilt to make a recurring clients plan you know even better after multiple years. They can do those things, but they can't do those things if they feel bad. It's just not possible. You can limp your way across the finish line of anything, but if you want to do great or do your best, your definition of great and you have to be healthy. So in health isn't just about, you know, your blood pressure or, yeah, all the things that are, you know, typical diagnostics and any doctor's appointment. So that mental wellbeing element is equal. So and I think that empathy plays the biggest or has the biggest impact on mental wellbeing. Which then is connected to physical well-being. Right. We know that we're, we're a whole being, the brains connected to the body. So how you're feeling, how you're being treated, can it well-documented totally affect your physical health? So that's why, I just believe it's it's really important that, you know, leaders encourage their people to take care of themselves, mental health wise and physical health wise. Be examples of doing that. Because, you know, the benefits are obvious to everyone. And when people also understand, gosh, my my leader does my leader in such a weird way to put it. But person I work for, a person I've worked with for a really long time, who happens to sign the paychecks, is a person who truly cares about me. And I know that if something happens to me, I'm taking care of, they're not going to write me off. I'm not gonna replace me. The value me highly. They want me to be at my best. Then they're. It's motivating, you know? But but but I've seen that time and time again. [00:26:58][148.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:58] Yeah. By showing the empathy what you're talking about, Eileen, you're showing the empathy of making sure that they're taking care of that. They have the emotional or the physical, you know, the well-being taking care of which which means when they have to focus on that, they know they're not going to run afoul of you. They know that you're going to support them, and then it allows them when they can focus to be in the moment and go full speed ahead with the tasks and the projects that that, you know, you've, assigned to them. Yeah. So just think about that, being able to say, I can totally focus on this because I know my my boss cares about, you know, making sure that I'm okay, you know, mentally and physically. And that's a that's a huge factor. And by showing that you, you've made it a really, you know, wonderful place to land. [00:27:42][44.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:27:42] Yeah. I think if people as I guess as a leader, if you approach it like this, there are always going to be times when you have to ask more of the people who, you know, work with you, work for you. Hopefully those times aren't all the time. That's not a healthy work environment for anybody, but knowing we got to take the vacation time, we got to take the doctor visit time. We gotta take the sick time when we're sick so that when those high demand moments happen, you're plugged in. We can we can meet the demand of that because we're we've taken care of ourselves. We're at our best. We're not depleted, if you will, in terms of, you know, energy, mental capacity, whatever the case may be. So you can't run at the same speed all the time at work. And that's why we have paid time off, and that's why we have sick time and all those things. They should be used. And as leaders encouraging our people to do that, you know, thoughtfully, actually saying, hey, plan your vacations this year because I want to see you take them. Right. That's a big deal. [00:28:41][58.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:28:41] And and, you know, when it's time for the foot on the gas, the foot on the gas, and when you can take your foot off the gas, you take your foot off the gas. It's it's pretty simple. [00:28:48][6.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:48] Yeah. So but the quid is I don't know if quid pro quo is the right way to put it. That just came to my mouth. Yeah. But they, the ability to ask for the extra, if you will, in the, you know, higher demand periods, people, people will respond to that need much better not just because they can they've got it in their reserves, but because they want to. They recognize I totally am supported and given all this, you know, space to take care of myself. And I need it right now and I'm going to answer that call. [00:29:15][27.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:29:16] That makes sense. [00:29:16][0.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:29:17] Yeah. So I guess that's how we see it in a nutshell. Absolutely, yes. So we will link to this great article. And a couple other things that I think are useful, to in the show notes, when we put the show up for all of our listeners who I know are eager to, you know, be their best empathetic leader self. [00:29:36][19.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:29:36] And to know that it's okay to be a great, empathetic leader. And even though, you know, like like we said earlier, soft, you know, soft skill used to be a, and now it's not so much now, now it's now it's very much accepted. So and you do a really great job of making sure that we have all those resources for our listeners, in the show notes. [00:29:54][18.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:29:56] Actually that's Olivia, I just point her in the right direction. Again, credit where credit is due. [00:30:03][6.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:30:03] Look at that empathetic leader. Write credit to somebody else, which is fairness. [00:30:06][3.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:30:07] Yeah, yeah. Trust. And you'll never take credit for someone else's. Well all right. [00:30:11][3.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:30:12] Well done, boss. Very proud of you. All right. That's going to do it for another edition of. Can you hear me? I'm Rob Johnson, if you would like to comment on the podcast or suggest any topic, please contact us at our new Can You Hear Me podcast page on LinkedIn? [00:30:25][12.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:30:26] Yes. Can't wait to hear from you guys. And I'm Eileen Rochford and if you like this show, please consider giving us a review. Any of the platforms where you can find it or can you hear me podcast. Drop us a review. It totally helps us out. So Apple, Spotify, whatever your reviews, help other potential listeners find our show and we'd love to have more listeners just like you. Thanks so much. [00:30:26][0.0]
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