What honesty and transparency look like to employees is often very different from what leaders intend or believe. In this episode of the Can You Hear Me? Podcast, co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson explore how authentic communication is experienced on teams—and why it’s essential for building trust and engagement at every level. Joining us is Steven Gaffney, a leading expert in change management, honest communication, and high-performing teams. Steven has advised Fortune 500 companies like Amazon, Marriott, and Allstate Insurance, as well as the U.S. government and military. He is the author of several books, including Just Be Honest, Honesty Works!, and his latest, Unconditional Power. Join us as we discuss, “What honesty and transparency look like to your employees.”
About our guest:
Steven Gaffney is a leading expert on increasing business profit through change management, honest communication, and high performing teams. An author, speaker, and trusted advisor, Steven works directly with top leaders from Fortune 500 companies like Amazon, Marriott, Allstate Insurance, and even the U.S. government and military.
Steven has authored four ground-breaking books: Just Be Honest: Authentic Communication Strategies that Get Results and Last a Lifetime, Honesty Works! Real-World Solutions to Common Problems at Work and Home, Be A Change Champion, and co-author of Honesty Sells: How to Make More Money and Increase Business Profits. He is currently working on two books: Reboot: How to Create and Sustain High Performing Teams, and The 9 Pillars of Sustainable Profitable Business Growth. His latest release, Unconditional Power, is available everywhere.
Steven helps leaders across many industries. Some of his clients include: Amazon, Marriott, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, SAIC, Allstate Insurance, BP, World Bank, Congressional Budget Office, Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Department of the Navy, Citigroup, Texas Instruments, NASA,American Cancer Society, Structural, Ornamental and Reinforcing Iron Workers, Best Buy, and Johns Hopkins University.
Rob Johnson: [00:00:19] Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me Podcast, i'm Rob Johnson president of Rob Johnson communication [00:00:25][5.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:25] And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the Harbinger Group, a marketing and strategy firm. So today we're focusing on a topic that's at the heart of every successful organization. What honesty and transparency really look like. To employees. Too often, leaders believe they're being open while their employees experience something very different. So we're excited to dig into this topic with our guest today, Steven Gaffney, who has spent his career helping organizations turn honest communication into a competitive advantage. Steven, welcome to our show. Thanks for being here today. [00:00:57][31.2]
Steven Gaffney: [00:00:57] Thank you for having me. Really appreciate it. [00:00:59][1.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:00:59] Well, it's great to have you, Steven, and we should tell for people that are listening to this, your resume is quite impressive. I mean, you've advised Fortune 500 companies like Amazon, Marriott, Allstate Insurance, the government. Even the military, you've written several books, so you know about this topic inside and out. So I just wanted to kind of make sure that our listeners understand where you're coming at this whole experience from. Now, from that experience, what do you think employees actually look for when they say they want honesty and transparency from their leaders? What does it look like feel like on the ground, in the boardroom. [00:01:35][35.8]
Steven Gaffney: [00:01:35] The biggest thing I would say is for everybody wants to get the unsaid said. And so the most important thing I can say right off the bat around this subject is the biggest problem is not what people say, it's actually what they're not saying. And really when I'm talking about honest communication, that's the realm I deal with, not the truth or lies, the ethics part, because I don't really think that's the biggest problem. And if you think about it, we've all experienced this. How often have you said to yourself, my gosh, why didn't that person or those folks tell me? If I had just known, I could have corrected the problem. Leaders think about that. And also, employees think about where they turn in something and it's not what the boss wanted or the leader wanted. They say, well, why didn't the boss or the leaders just tell me? So often, the biggest issue is really not what people are saying, it's what they're not saying. So what I try to do and what we do in my company is help companies get the unsaid said and then how to resolve the issue because that's a whole other issue as well. [00:02:31][55.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:32] So how do you get the unsaid said? So it's, it's they're missing some key components, they need to do a better job of communicating. And, you know, that's where we're communicators at heart here. So, so how do, how do make that case with the clients that you're working with, even. [00:02:46][14.0]
Steven Gaffney: [00:02:46] Well, first we have to look at the cause, and the number one cause is fear. Fear of retribution, fear it's going to go on a list, fear that somebody's not going to forgive. I mean, think about it. How often have you held back? We've all held back. And I call those lies of withholding, and somebody might say, well, are they really lies? Well, call them what you want, but we all withhold. And why do we do that? Because we're afraid often of how that person is going to receive it. Is it going to hurt their feelings? Is it is going damage the relationship? So everybody can talk about, oh yeah, we have this honest communication, but are we prepared to hear it? And what are we gonna do with that information? Because that's another issue that often people forget about is you have to reward honesty. How often have you thought, okay, I can bring it up, but nothing ever changes around here. So why bring it out? Or even in an interpersonal relationship, why bring up something they've always, we've talked about this issue countless times and the person has even asked my advice and they've never changed anything. Forget it, I'm not going there. So we have to address the fear and then we also have to award that honesty, all of which we can talk about and dig deeper if you'd like. [00:03:47][60.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:03:47] Oh, I'd love to. Yes, dig, dig. Tell us more. [00:03:50][2.4]
Steven Gaffney: [00:03:52] Well, I love the subject because I mean, at the root of all relationships is if you don't get the unsaid said, where are we going? And here's something else to consider. And then I get back to this. How about appreciation? People are stingy with their appreciation. And so often employees will say, well, my boss or, you know, the person I report to doesn't appreciate me. And I'll say, Well, how often do you appreciate your boss? And they go, well that's a good point. Well, I don't want my boss to have a big head. And I say, Well, how's that working for you? Whatever you want to get more in life, you got to give it. So even appreciation is lacking. And so there's the good stuff. But back to kind of the central point of addressing fear, that's creating emotional safety. And when I'm saying emotional safety on purpose, I am not saying psychological safety. That's all the stuff out there, but it really doesn't address why people don't speak up. They can cognitively get that it's okay and that badness is going to happen, but you have to feel safe to bring it up. We've all had people negatively react when we bring up things and they get defensive and you go, oh, I'm not going there. So emotional safety is really critical. And then we can go into that even further and also going back to rewarding honesty. And here's something else to consider. Asking questions. How often somebody wants to know something like, I don't want to ask somebody. Well, what's the worst that somebody could say is I don t want to answer that question. That's the worst. So, I know, again, we can go in all so many different directions because it's such an important issue. [00:05:10][78.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:11] I'm actually very curious from your perspective, Steven, what is the difference between psychological safety and emotional safety? Could you kind of explain that more for us? [00:05:20][9.5]
Steven Gaffney: [00:05:21] I can, so this is my take on it, in my opinion. But psychological safety, a lot of the stuff out there, even psychological, okay, the mind, but really people need to feel safe to bring things up. People make decisions on emotions and they justify with logic. Human beings are emotional. We're not really logical. Yes, logic is important, but emotions make people move. Logic sustains that movement. Let me give you an easy example because some people might, well, what, how does that, let me explain. Have you ever bought something spontaneously? And then when you're driving home, you think, well, you know, I deserve it. I work really hard. But you already made the decision to buy it. So now you're justifying. Now, if you get home and the logic isn't there and the sustain, then you're not going to sustain that you're going to reverse the decision. So we need both. But why I'm addressing it is people need to feel safe to bring things up. And how often has somebody negatively reacted, gotten defensive, or how about the latest where people, leaders don't manage distractions and people are texting under the table, doing other things, and it may not be so much fearful, but people say, well, it's just a waste of time. That person doesn't really care. Those are various takes of it, but you gotta create that emotional safety. [00:06:31][70.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:06:32] And how do you that's just let's go down that path just for a moment to, you know, I think our listeners would love to hear your perspective on how you establish that as a leader. [00:06:40][8.5]
Steven Gaffney: [00:06:41] Well, what we have to watch out for the number one thing is watching out people's reaction. So kind of explaining a little bit further, have you ever had somebody say, listen, I love honest feedback, you can give me feedback and I'd really love the feedback. And so you give them a feedback they don't really like and then they get defensive. Have you ever a friend or relationship or something where they totally get defensive and forget it, I'm not going there. Actually people train people to lie to them by the way they react. So when you look at it as a leader, are we managing our team where it's not just our reaction, but other reactions within the team? I do most of the work around leadership teams, and these are very experienced executives, and everybody talks about this is okay. But I've seen leaders, executives debate each other and even get defensive. And if not properly managed, or if there's an overbearing personality, if not properly managed the rest of the team will just shut down. So it really is important about making people feel safe. The other thing is managing distractions. What I mentioned earlier, creating meetings where, look, put your phones away. I don't mean to be so remedial, but it's like, let's manage and being focused. If people are not looking at us and doing other things, then that's a problem too. That makes sense? Yeah. [00:07:56][75.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:07:57] You know what you said that I really liked, Steven, was when you were talking about handing out compliments and you said, hey, do you compliment your boss? I don't want him or her to get a big head." I really am glad you talked about that because I think so much of the time, people believe that the communication stream is just downhill. It comes from leadership and it goes to you. And I think sometimes people miss the point that, yes, I'm an employee, I want honesty and transparency in my place of business, but I too am responsible for sending that communication back upstream. So I think that's a really important point that you made a couple of minutes ago. [00:08:31][34.1]
Steven Gaffney: [00:08:32] Thank you. And then we have to do something with this. Let me explain why I say that a little bit more about doing something with a rewarding honesty. Very often I'll talk to employees and they might even say, I feel safe to bring things up, but nothing happens. And when you look at it, let's take employee survey. I've worked a lot of companies that take months and months to get back to the employees, not only what they said, but let alone whether they did anything about it. And so if we're going to ask for feedback, especially in this day and age where we can make things happen very fast, we have to take advantage of all these systems, whether it's AI, whether it is all these things, about somehow managing and giving feedback and then doing something with that feedback. That's critical. So even employee surveys and whatnot. So if we do need to look at how are we getting, and our employees, are they giving feedback up? And as a whole, what are we doing with that information? And quite often, they're not doing nearly enough with what the employees give them. And then people say, what's the point? [00:09:29][56.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:09:29] Fascinating. We asked earlier what employees are actually looking for when they say they want honesty and transparency from organizations, leaderships, et cetera. And it sounds like one of the things that you're supplying here now, Steven, is action. Stop just listening and do something with what we're actually telling you. That's an interesting perspective. Action, and particularly now with the speed of everything that we're able to do. I mean, you can have dinner on your doorstep in 15 minutes if you want. So why can't I get an answer, or why can't I see some? Change or action on the part of the organization I work for after they've asked me, what are we, what could we do better? Well, why aren't you doing it yet? That's a very logical conclusion. [00:10:08][39.4]
Steven Gaffney: [00:10:10] Well, it's interesting because there was a book written years ago called Ideas Are Free, which is a fantastic book. But one of the central messages is the number one thing that motivates employees to give ideas is to show that those ideas will be used. Now, we're not going to use all the ideas, but how about some of the ideas? And so we have to do something with that. It's so critical to be able to move forward with stuff. So we've got to do Something. It's not always easy, though, because how about this? What if you get ideas, and I've had this happen where leaders ask me, where the ideas are not that great? [00:10:41][30.9]
Speaker 4: [00:10:42] And somehow... [00:10:42][0.4]
Steven Gaffney: [00:10:43] You gotta make gold out of it, right? [00:10:45][1.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:10:46] You have to be willing to exhibit that. Right. Employees are looking. They're like, is my feedback being valued? It doesn't mean they're going to take every bit of your feedback and run with it. You'd like to think that a few of the ideas that you had will make it on the list. If they never make it on the list, people are going to feel shut down to your point. If they see that, hey, some of this stuff's making an end, I'm really making a contribution, they're likely to double down on that and to give even more feedback. [00:11:15][28.8]
Steven Gaffney: [00:11:15] And not only that, when we build from this concept and we talk about feedback, poor achievers want feedback. I know that means saying counterintuitive because, well, they're not doing a good job, but over the years, and I've been at this for 30 years, I've come to realize one of the most astonishing things about feedback is poor performers or poor achiever receive poor feedback. So often they're just in the dark and that may sound, that doesn't make any sense. Wouldn't you think that somebody's giving them feedback? But it's often not really clear feedback. I work with a lot of executives and sometimes they'll say well you know this person reporting to me or whatever is not doing the right job and I've talked to them about it and I'll say well relay the conversation and when they relay it I'm like you didn't really say that if they don't change you're going to make a move. You said hey well it might be nice if you get you know we got to increase our numbers or we have to improve our customer response time or whatever but it's not really directive clear feedback. So I challenge people that when you're having these difficult, challenging conversations, when you are giving feedback, is it really specific and then is it actionable? Years ago, I developed a nine-step formula on how to have the most difficult conversations with anyone, have a go-well. And people transformed their marriage, they did all kinds of great stuff, but the central thing was about how do you begin a conversation, how do deliver the message and how do resolve it. But one of the overarching messages was just have the conversation. Because, I know I'm talking a lot here, but, and maybe just need to pause more, but you know there's a book years ago written, Crucial Conversations. My comeback to that is you don't want to have crucial conversations. You want to have everyday conversations. Because if you have everyday conversations you don't have to have the crucial conversations, Crucial conversations because you didn't have the conversation. [00:12:56][101.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:12:56] You didn't communicate, you didn't communicate, so then you had to. Yeah. [00:12:59][2.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:12:59] Yep. Well, that's good stuff. I would love to explore another area if I may, which is this, this off this disconnect that we alluded to earlier, between what leaders think they're communicating to the people they're leading and what the employees. Here or perceive. So where do you often see those gaps show up the most and what can leaders communicating to their teams and their employees due to close those gaps. [00:13:29][30.0]
Steven Gaffney: [00:13:30] Well, overall, what's important to have is a two-way conversation because we don't often realize how what we're saying may be unintentionally delivering the wrong message. Some years ago, I had an employee leave and she told me, look, when I started working with you, I have a lot of confidence and now I'm leaving and I have no confidence. And it was really hard for me to hear. I mean, I pride myself on trying to help people, and here I am. And so I'm like, what in the world happened? What I realized was at that time, I was good at delivering the communication as far as the critical part, but I didn't balance it out with resolution. I never said when she did a great job, I was a lousy manager. I mean, there's no way around it. And it was so eye-opening because that was a pivotal moment in my life, because I realize it's not... First of all, there's a difference between honesty and brutality. And the second is we have to come to terms with, how is it landing with someone? I was just in transmit mode. Well, I'm being upfront, they're going to just do what they want. No, it's important to take responsibility for how we're delivering it. And so that changed a lot of the way I communicated and have done it moving forward. Now, when you got to give constructive criticism, you have to make sure it's balanced and make sure you're distinguishing the issue from the person so that the person doesn't feel bad or wrong, because that's an awful place to leave somebody. And I'm embarrassed. That's what happened to me. The good news is it transformed. But here's the interesting part is years later, she came back and worked with me, you know, and so I learned a lot about this. But I'm just saying, in fact, a lot of what I teach is because I've screwed up so many times. I'm an expert at screwing up. So, but you learn. [00:15:07][97.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:15:08] Yeah, tell us a little bit more about what you consciously changed after receiving that feedback. [00:15:13][5.1]
Steven Gaffney: [00:15:14] Yeah, great question. So what I learned to do was giving somebody, let me give an example, like I'll just make a hypothetical example. You could say, you keep missing the deadlines, right? And you got to fix that. Okay. Well, one of my lousy at everything versus look, I noticed the report came in at five o'clock rather than three o' clock and it often comes in late. What can I do to help support you? So we get this on time and maybe I wasn't clear on the deadline and what can we do moving forward? Basically, So we work better together, you know that kind of delivery. That's one thing The other thing is make sure you appreciate people when they are doing something, right? I've had this experience where I've coached somebody and they'll say well on that person wasn't doing a good job And now they're starting to do a better job and I'll say Well, have you appreciated them for the improvement and they go well, I don't want them to have a big head I don't want them a misinterpret because there's they're still making mistakes I'll see listen people do more what they are appreciated for people do what they're appreciated for So you don't have to throw them a party, but there's nothing wrong with saying, hey, look, I noticed that there's improvement, and it means a lot to me. And I see great growth in here, and I see great potential in you. [00:16:19][65.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:16:22] You've raised an interesting nuance here, which is not everybody gets a trophy and we live in the trophy environment. Now, everybody gets the trophy. Hey, you're great and you're great and your great. So I can understand leaders not wanting to give everybody a trophy. And at the same time, because of human nature that you've already explained, Steven, you got to pump people's tires a little bit. If they did something good, you have to say, hey, that was a really nice job. And they're thinking, oh, they're going to get the big head or they're gonna misconstrue, whatever the case is. It's like, no, people do need that. People need to have that affirmation every so often, and so I'm glad you raised it because you don't want to err on the side of, hey, everybody's great, but you also don't wanna hold back with praise where people are like, I never get positive reinforcement. [00:17:06][44.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:17:07] And what's funny is it's not just about being positive or, you know, at a voice. That's what I hear you saying is it is more about showing people. So what does good look like? If I wasn't doing well, that's one thing. Well, telling them you're doing well now, that that's good. Do more of that. That's really important, right? How are they going to know the difference if you don't? [00:17:27][20.9]
Steven Gaffney: [00:17:28] It is. And why all of this is important is we grow with feedback. You know, I'm often asking a lot of questions of other people around me and and and searching. And they'll say, well, why don't you necessarily share more? Because quite often I don't I'm sharing a lot now. But I mean, I ask a lot of questions because I love the Larry King quote. He said he never learned anything when he was talking. And I'm bored with myself. I know my own ideas. I want to search for other ideas. And if you think about, OK, well that may sound obvious, but how often are we at a dinner party or a business function and somebody's just going in transmit mode and you're like, oh my gosh, they never ask us a question. But either way, it's important to ask questions because we learn by that. Can I share with you a quick story about when it's got some feedback, it was really hard, but it was a really great, is that all right? Yes, please. Of course. So some years back, I did a television interview on MSNBC, I went back to the office and I thought I did great job. I said to my assistant, this was a different assistant than the story I was just telling you about. Earlier and I said to her, how'd I do? And she goes, you really want to know. Now that's usually not a beginning of something that's going to be really good stuff. And she proceeded to tell me how I had screwed up. I repeated myself, I was staying too many different points and all this other stuff, and I was rushed. And so, and she, you know, she was like, Oh, no, I don't want you to be good. No, but it was really good feedback. It was specific and was actionable. I just took it to heart. You know, after a few days, I realized, you know, okay, who am I going to be in a manner? Am I going grow from this experience or am I not? And so I learned, I learned heavily from that. I learned I wasn't focused on the points and various other things. And then the next interview I did was light years ahead of where I would have been. So feedback is so important to grow in life. And so it really begs the question, can we hear it? You know, do we search for it and do we hear it? Because that's how we all learn when you think about it. [00:19:14][106.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:14] Do you have any advice for employees about what to listen for when they're being given feedback and maybe how to listen differently than they have in the past? [00:19:23][8.6]
Steven Gaffney: [00:19:24] Great question, because often my experience is the person doesn't really know or understand the feedback. You know, let's say their boss or leader might say, look, can you improve the numbers, but how much by when, or, you know, can be better with the customer, well, how much by when. Or right now I'm coaching someone who is their emotional intelligence with their team is kind of disconnect, they don't get other coming across. And so it's really understanding first what the feedback is, and then a really good question to ask your boss or leaders, what would you suggest? What kind of actions would you need to see so that I could prove to you that I'm improving it on it? And so we get afraid to ask some questions, but quite often it's, how about this question? How are we doing in our job? We wait for these performance reviews. People say, well, I don't get enough feedback. We'll go search for it. Some years back, I was doing a session and this lady came up to me And she said, she wanted some feedback on how to approach her boss. And I said, well, why don't you ask your boss whether you're doing a good job? And she started to get teary-eyed. And I say, wait, what's the emotion? And of course what the emotion was, was she was afraid that if she asked her boss whether the boss is thinking she's doing a good job, she was going to get some negative feedback. And I told her, listen, when's a good time to know that? Bad news doesn't get better later. We need to find this out. So quite often the right question to ask is the one we're the most afraid to ask. [00:20:49][85.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:20:51] I love all of this. Eileen knows this, and our listeners know it. I'm currently writing a book called OverCommunicate, and you're weaving in things like... Being a good listener, asking good questions, the illusion we're communicating when we're not, and then also being nice versus being kind. These are all things that I'm talking about, and you're bringing it up in kind of a different way, but you're reinforcing the fact that these are all very, very important communication techniques. And again, it doesn't all roll downhill and has to roll uphill as well when it comes to communication. So let's talk about the impact, Steven, when employees feel like they're getting real honesty and transparency. How does it affect the trust, their engagement, their willingness to contribute? Then on the flip side, what are the risks when they sense those qualities are missing? You've talked about the reward for honesty several times here. Honesty needs to be rewarded. What is the reward of honesty? What is payoff? [00:21:39][48.5]
Steven Gaffney: [00:21:39] Quite often it's dramatic results. And so the work we do again is with teams, right, building what I call consistently high-achieving teams versus high-performing. We can make that distinction a bit, but basically making great teams. And the central foundation of the way we're able to do that, there are 12 essential elements, but one of the most important ones is everyone shares to get the unsaid said. So doing go-arounds and a bottom line is creating that atmosphere, asking the right questions and then really getting the unsayed said. Because what I have found in life is if we really get the unsaid said, and it's not just that topical thing, it's really what's our vulnerability, and I don't mean it has to be deep to heart vulnerable, but I'm saying our challenges and our frustrations that if we say it often in the right way, the other person can hear it and it transforms teams. So by getting the unsayed said, if we did nothing else in life, that really moves the needle and performs dramatic results. And that's usually what we're doing with teams. And that is a foundational point. So again, we can go into that, but the payoff is dramatic results. And think about it this way, even with our customers, right? So I've been brought into situations where a customer was lost and I'll say, well, do you know why you lost the customer? And they'll say well, I think just they're, as soon as they say that, go, so you don't really know. You don't know. I think. And you might say, well, we asked the customer, but it's hard to give feedback. Again, it goes back to, Gosh, and now there's all, you know, you got the lawyers, you got all kinds of stuff going on. And now in today's work world, people are so afraid to give feedback. And so they really don't say that stuff. So really the foundational point is creating that atmosphere, getting the unsaid set, and then resolution. And one of the ways you can resolve it is by using one of three questions. What would you suggest? What would it take for your degree? And can you live with it? All of which we can expand on, but we do have to do something with it again, moving forward, but it still comes back to getting the un-said set. [00:23:29][109.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:29] Can you repeat those for you again, please? [00:23:31][1.4]
Steven Gaffney: [00:23:31] Yeah, these are three breakthrough questions that can transform any conversation. What would you suggest? And let me just cover that for a moment. What would suggest is great because when somebody gets in complaining mode, you just go, well, what would you suggests? So it moves to a solution. Another great question is what would it take for you to agree? That's really great because sometimes we're participant in a meeting and there's people going at it and say, okay, we got a lot of disagreement here. What would it takes so we can move forward? What would take so we get some agreement? The third question, which I've found to be very useful in life, is can you live with it? Can you live it? I don't know about you, but I've wasted stupid time having dumb conversations where I walked away and said... What was the point of who cares, right? So often people on trade conversations, I'll give you an example. A client of mine was telling me how they had a big conversation about the company logo and how much it should be slanted. Was it 30 degrees or 40 degrees? And he's sitting there going, we're wasting a bunch of executive time and who cares? It's unlikely to make a big difference. That's what I'm talking about. So often can you live with it as a great shortcut to stopping conversations. [00:24:38][66.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:39] Ah, I love that. [00:24:40][1.1]
Steven Gaffney: [00:24:40] That is awesome. [00:24:41][0.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:41] Oh, gosh, I have like, I can't wait to do the show notes for this episode. You've said so many wonderful things that are easy to implement and actionable, etc. So thank you. I think we're about to kind of turn into the corner of wrapping up. But before we totally end our show, I did want to ask you something that we always cover with our guests, Steven. And today, what we want to know is for leaders listening who want to build a culture of genuine honesty and transparency, what are some practical steps that you can give for them to take right now to ensure their communication truly resonates with employees in the future? We'd love to hear your practical advice. Sorry, please go ahead. [00:25:20][38.9]
Steven Gaffney: [00:25:20] Well, the first thing is to start with the leadership team. Quite often, I've worked with leaders and they're saying, well, mid-level management and lower levels. You know what's funny is somebody will say, well it's mid- level management. It's not us, it's the mid-level. I'm like, well who's in charge of the mid level management? You are. Right? It's like, are we? Yeah, we having those conversations and really getting the unsaid said as a leadership team. It starts with the leadership team and you might say, okay, somebody might be saying, well, I'm not the leader. Well, then start wherever you are. We're all leaders. We lead up, we lead down, we led across. And this is kind of a side kind of editorial remark, but quite often people play the blame game and say, well, what am I going to do? I'm only one person here. Well, remember the greatest leaders of our time, Gandhi and Martin Luther King. And I love to use those examples because they never held political office and they changed the world. Change starts with ourself. And so are we creating that environment? Are we getting the onset set? Are we doing that? And if we're in charge of a team, are we at least making sure that team is emulating what we want everybody else to follow? Because I've worked a lot with employees where the leadership team is not really emulating that. And that's where the problem starts. If I had one place to start, it's always with the leadership. So good. [00:26:34][74.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:34] That's great. Excellent advice. Actually, all of it's been excellent advice. Steven Gaffney, we cannot thank you enough for being on Can You Hear Me? We are eternally grateful for all of your incredible input. Thanks for joining us. [00:26:46][12.0]
Steven Gaffney: [00:26:47] Thank you. Thank you for having me. Can I say one more thing is, like, if they mention your show, send us an email and we'll send them the very first book I wrote called Just Be Honest or Free, the electronic version. And it has a really important distinction around all this stuff that they can immediately use. We'll just send it to them. All they have to do is mention your show. [00:27:03][16.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:27:04] Oh, that's so great. I'll be sure. Yeah, we'll get that in the show notes and we'll also add it to our promo and other materials as well when we put it out on social media. Thank you. That's really Yeah. And yeah, I'm actually I'm really interested in your latest book as well. That one. [00:27:19][15.8]
Steven Gaffney: [00:27:20] Oh, unconditional power, yeah. [00:27:21][1.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:27:21] Yeah. And I'm interested in reading that. So I can't wait. Actually, I was reading the background on your latest book and thought that's what I'm going to read for sure. Yes. [00:27:32][11.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:27:34] That is going to do it for another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson. If you would like to comment on the podcast or suggest a topic, please contact us at our Can You hear me podcast page on LinkedIn. [00:27:45][11.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:27:45] I'm Eileen Rochford. If you like what you heard, please consider giving Can You Hear Me a positive review wherever you get your podcasts like Apple or Spotify. Your reviews help other listeners find our show. Thanks so much for listening and we really hope that you learned something today. [00:27:45][0.0]
[1618.1]