When it comes to leading companies and attracting the best talent you can find, we often think of someone with a high IQ as the most desirable candidate. While that may be the case, it is essential to find candidates with high emotional intelligence, also known as EQ. So what does that mean, and why is it so important? In this episode of the Can You Hear Me? Podcast, co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson welcome veteran communications executive Rich Jernstedt to the program to discuss ‘The Value of EQ’.
The Jernstedt Company specializes in strategic communications. Rich has experience in military public affairs, corporate communications departments and agencies. He was CEO for 12 of his 26 years at Golin; EVP at FleishmanHillard for seven years; and consulted with Porter Novelli for five. His expertise includes strategic planning, coaching, business development, and reputation management. He also consults with Prosper Group, a team of former agency owners and CEOs who counsel communications firms on performance, organization, exit planning, and M&A
“The Anxious Generation,” Jonathan Haidt
“Unprecedented,” (Canada’s top CEOs on what they learned about leadership during COVID-19) Compiled by Steve Mayer and Andrew Willis
“Me, But Better,” Olga Khazan
Rob Johnson: [00:00:18] Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communication. [00:00:23][5.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:24] I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm, The Harbinger Group. Here on Can You Hear Me, we love to immerse ourselves in topics related to leadership and today is no different. I think we can all agree that leaders need to possess cognitive abilities, like logical reasoning, problem solving, and analytical skills. That is IQ for sure. [00:00:45][21.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:00:46] That's right. But Eileen, equally important, I would say, is EQ, which stands for emotional quotient or emotional intelligence. You hear about that all the time. Now, this refers to the aptitude required to understand and manage emotions, empathize with others, and build meaningful interpersonal relationships. Those are the skills necessary to be able to get the most out of those who work for you. So a lot of times everybody focused on IQ, and I feel like in recent years, there's really been a greater focus on eq because you see it all the time if you can't get all those people on board if you get managed and if you cannot manage those uh... Personalities in relationships and you don't have a chance right [00:01:24][38.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:24] No doubt about it, particularly now when we have five different generations all in the workplace at the same time. [00:01:30][6.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:31] That's true. [00:01:31][0.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:31] Being able to get the nuance of who you're working with and what is going to kind of light them up, what's going to put them in the right direction. So, so important right now in the workplace. Absolutely true. [00:01:43][12.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:44] It is true. [00:01:45][0.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:45] And we are fortunate to have as a guest today, someone who has extensive knowledge about this issue. He has spent years in the agency world in Chicago. In fact, we met when he was running Golan many, many years ago. I'm not that old, right? His name is Rich Jernstedt, who now runs the Jernsteadt Company. He is a legend in this business, a very good friend of ours, and we are deeply honored to have him with us today. Rich, welcome to Can You Hear Me? Thank you for being here. [00:02:15][30.1]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:02:16] You're very welcome. Thank you for inviting me, and I can hear you, actually. [00:02:20][4.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:24] That's very important on a podcast. Rich, you've been such a great leader in this city for so long and such a terrific friend of ours, as Eileen mentioned, and it's really wonderful to have you here. So welcome to the program. And as Eilene mentioned, you had an illustrious career in the Chicago agency world. So why don't you give our listeners a little background on your origin story, some of the highlights of your career that brought you to this moment. [00:02:49][25.5]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:02:50] Okay. Again, thanks for the opportunity to be with you. It all started in a small town in Oregon. I'm from a town of a thousand people, about an hour from Portland, and enjoyed the experience of being in a smaller town. It says a lot about who I am, I think. I had a great high school and college experience, go ducks. I was a journalism major with a specialty in advertising public relations. But this goes back to the Vietnam War era. So I had a military obligation to fulfill. So, I enlisted in a reserve program that became an officer's program. And I ended up as a public affairs officer on an aircraft carrier that went to the Western Pacific. And after a year on that ship, I went to The Mediterranean on another aircraft carrier. So was a huge impact on my career development because, first of all, there were three and a half times as many people on that ship as were in my hometown. So that was an experience itself, but we had access to radio, television, a print shop, a photo lab, everything that you would need to play PR. And that's exactly what we did for the three years that I was in the Navy, interested a job that would leverage that background and be in an interesting city. I've been all over the world by now and was not ready to go back to my hometown, nor did I want to go back to to my wife's hometown in Southern Oregon. So the best opportunity we felt like was a job here in Chicago in a corporate communications and marketing department of a big packaging company. I was there for about five years when I realized I felt like I should be able to expose myself to the agency experience and had a call from a recruiter one day. Long story short, I ended up at Golan working on the McDonald's account, so it was the perfect alternative to a job in a B2B environment in a corporate setting. After a long time at Golan, I went to Fleishman-Hillard, another Jolt in a way, because it was about four times the size of Golan at the time, at a terrific time there. And then I went into retirement, started the Jernstead company, but was asked to consult with Port Novelli, virtually full-time, I did that for a couple of years. And now I'm pretty much retired, but I do work with 10 other former CEOs and agency owners in a group called Prosper, and we provide consulting services to public affairs and public relations firms that are independently owned and are interested in solving problems, taking advantage of opportunities, and many times getting ready to sell the company. So that's been really gratifying to stay involved and try to help owners and other senior officers take full advantage of the efforts that they've made to start their own firm in many cases. That's the origin story. [00:05:44][174.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:45] Wow. And you did it so quickly when I am well aware of the multitude of accomplishments and experiences that you've had within that span. So very nice, tight summary there. Kudos to you for that. [00:05:58][13.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:05:58] That was really tight for a guy with your experience. Unbelievable. [00:06:02][3.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:06:02] Yeah, well done. Remind me, what year did you leave Golan? [00:06:05][2.6]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:06:05] Uh, oh three, I think it was Eileen. [00:06:07][2.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:06:08] Okay. Yeah. Interesting. So great. So for listeners, we overlapped, I think, from 1993 to 98, if I recall. That sounds about right. Yeah, yeah. [00:06:20][12.0]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:06:20] Yeah, you were a young account person that everyone thought was going to tear up the world. [00:06:27][6.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:06:30] I chose to tear it up in a different way after 10 years in agency life, though. I was like, wow. [00:06:35][5.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:06:36] But, Rich, probably somebody like you saw the EQ in a young Eileen and was pretty impressed, I would think. [00:06:43][7.2]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:06:43] Absolutely. You know, I think it's pretty easy to spot. You'd think I'd done better with my own EQ, but it's easy to sport, and Eileen had it and still has it. [00:06:56][13.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:06:57] Thank you. That is an awesome segue, guys. You're so good at teeing me up. I really appreciate that. So again, we have defined what EQ is, sort of, but I'd like to know, and if you want to expand on that anymore, feel free, Rich, but, I'm really curious to know why it's so vital to have EQ for communicators in particular. This is a juicy one. I know you're going to have a lot to say. [00:07:21][23.3]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:07:22] Do you want my answer or do you want an answer that you get if you ask chat GPT? [00:07:27][5.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:07:28] We brought you on the show. [00:07:29][1.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:07:32] I really want to hear what you think. Rich Jernstedt, just anywhere. [00:07:35][3.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:07:35] So hearken back to when you knew, you know, Eileen Rochford or any, you know, person that you've have known over the decades who you felt, man, they've got it and you can say, you can use them as an example to describe. [00:07:47][11.9]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:07:48] Well, you know, if you look at most people's definitions, it's the ability to identify and understand and leverage emotions. So it's pretty easy to spot those people, I think, because they don't get rattled for one. And that's certainly in the agency environment. That's a real behavioral. Benefit because of all the surprises that tend to happen in a day's time, especially if you're on a variety of different accounts. So, I think it is understanding the situation that you might be in, what the communications problem or opportunity is, and then the people that you're working with to solve that problem, both. Inside as well as the client. So that ability to identify who's got a problem, who's going to be easy to work with, who has an attitude about one thing or the other. And I think people that have EQ see that. And as a result of seeing it, they don't get thrown by it. And since they're not thrown by, they can end up utilizing it one way or the other. And in the end, that's a chance to bring all the resources together, all the talents required, sell in a budget, whatever you have to do, whether it's the client budget or the senior management deciding on the budget in order to take advantage of the resources to solve the problem. And so, and I think it starts to I think with a company that's known for having a cultural environment that is supportive of EQ gives you a chance to attract I think the best people. And so there's another reason why I think it's so important because you want people that have EQ, the statistics of people with Senior level jobs having a higher EQ than IQ are actually kind of staggering. You have to have a certain level of IQ, obviously, but it's EQ that leverages your IQ. [00:09:39][111.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:09:40] Ah, that's a good way to think about it. Nice. That's very good. [00:09:43][3.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:09:43] That's very good. Eileen, I know you're interested, I mean, probably from your agency days with Rich, but because you and I were talking offline about this, about as it related to something like crisis, and Rich was talking about solving problems and being cool-headed and various things of that nature. So I know, you kind of want to dive into some of that. [00:10:01][18.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:10:01] Well, just to take you down memory lane a little bit, and this is a long time ago, but from the perspective of a then very, very young and inexperienced professional who worked at Golan, me, you and... Dave Gilbert and some other folks, Al himself, they were like, you were the first bosses leaders I ever had exposure to. And I recall some very significant things happening during the time when you all as being the leaders influenced me greatly. So I'm going to share a couple. One is the, I believe it was 19, oh gosh, now I'm gonna forget the year, the great heat wave in Chicago. Was that 94 or 96? [00:10:44][42.8]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:10:45] No recollection. [00:10:45][0.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:10:46] Okay, well, this is what happened. For 10 days, I think, the heat index in Chicago was over 100 degrees with the heat dome sitting on top of the city with temperatures never went below 80 degrees at night, and there was no wind. And it created these horrible, horrible circumstances. And you probably remember more than 700 people died during this time period. It was a terrible, terrible summer. It was one of the, well, I think it was actually had to have been like in 94. If I think about it, it was one the first summers. I'd ever lived in Chicago. It was by the time I left to get on the L, because Golan gave us tokens to get to work, and it was the only way I could afford to get there. It was awesome. By the time, I left my apartment, the whole back of my suit, everything was just soaked in sweat within two blocks. We weren't sleeping all night. It was bananas. So by the third night, and the mayor of the city, Mayor Daley, really didn't understand what was happening. If you all recall, he handled it pretty poorly. But you guys, you recognized what was happened, and you put out communications to the entire company regularly, voicemails saying, if you don't have power, tell us. If you don t have air conditioning, tell, us if you need support with getting to work. If whatever your circumstances are because people like me who lived in a third floor walk-up with no AC and were sleeping on their decks outside in, you know, sleeping bags doused in water from my bathtub. We were under some pretty tough circumstances, but the leadership that you guys demonstrated went so far beyond being, you run the company that I work for. It was far more like, are you okay? In a time when I don't think that was really very much a thing for people leading companies. And it didn't stop there. And this is why I wanted to bring this up because we also had some horrible winters during the time that I worked. Under your leadership. Same thing. You guys would send out voicemails saying, if you don't come to work tomorrow, it's too cold. If you can't get here because the snow is too extensive and you're going to be late, that's fine. We'll make it a jean stay. All the things you could think of to make it easier for us to get to work in those horrible circumstances. So I just remember that. And I mean, it was funny when you were coming on the show, those things just sprang to mind for me. Like, wow, you and that whole leadership team, you created a culture where that's how leadership behaved. That's what was right. You just kind of emulated that and I've always remembered that. I run my own company. Ten years after agency life, I decided to start. I've always thought in those terms because you guys set the stage for me when I was really, really young. [00:13:32][166.6]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:13:33] That's really interesting to hear and gratifying. I give Al a ton of credit for a really high level of EQ. In fact, as I thought about our conversation today, thinking about the people in my life who I thought really had it, he's one of the first people who came to mind and it just came very naturally to him because he cared about people. You know, compassion is one of main factors in EQ. And so, it wasn't like this is what you to run the company, I think he did it because he cared for his people. And that's the best way for it to happen, right? When it's automatic. Uh, as opposed to something that you have to do because you're, you're checking a list or someone told you that it'd be a good thing if you thought about doing it this way or that way, he knew the right way to do it. And I think as a result, uh, the company has, I think one of the best cultures still in all of the agency world and has benefited as a because it attracts and retains some really talented people. [00:14:29][56.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:14:30] To your point about culture, it's all about culture and it's authentic. Like you said, you can't check the box. It's either something that's baked into what you do or it's not, right? Yeah. Yeah, exactly right. [00:14:41][11.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:14:42] Oh, how fortunate for you to have had the that was your first job after being in service. That's great. [00:14:47][5.5]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:14:47] Yeah. Well, you know, ironically, maybe the first boss that impacted me was the first captain of my first ship, who was just a great guy. And I was so green, it was unbelievable. I got lost on this aircraft carrier more than one time. I reported to another guy, but I spent a ton of time with the captain and believe it or not back then I looked like I was about 12. And people would always wonder, who are you that hangs out with the captain all the time? But the captain understood the importance of communicating. And so I wrote all his letters. I wrote his comments that he'd make to the crew. He'd have me sit in meetings with the other senior leaders to talk about what the communications impact would be. It was a big morale issue, as you might imagine. 3,500 guys on a really old aircraft carrier in fighting a war that probably At least half of the guys didn't quite understand or believe in. And my crew in the public affairs office felt like we were in charge of morale. And we had a captain that understood that. [00:15:57][69.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:15:57] That's really, I mean, first of all, I think for people that weren't in the military, you don't always think about a captain who valued communication and, you know, EQ, before it was EQ, what was called EQ. And to hear that you, that was part of your experience is pretty impressive. Because I often hear stories of, you know, my way of the highway and all that kind of thing. But you had a much different experience there. [00:16:21][24.4]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:16:22] Well, can I tell you the first thing that happened to me on that ship? The second, first of all, I was by far the youngest in my team of like 12 guys. I had two guys that had PhDs. It was an unbelievably talented bunch, but I happen to be the officer, so I was in charge and I was 22. The second week I was on the ship, we had the Dependence Day cruise. There were 950 guests on board the ship for a five hour outing out into the Atlantic Ocean to demonstrate flight operations and what it's like for your son or grandson or boyfriend or husband, whatever, to work on a ship like this. And later, about the time we should have gone back to the base, where people that left their toddlers and young women, I'm sure didn't even tell their parents who they were with that day, their sailor boyfriend, fog rolled in and we could not return to the bass. So we in the end spent 24 hours at sea with 950 guests on board. And, you know, luckily it wasn't life threatening, but it was a crisis in effect. And this was before the communications vehicles that we all have now. But again, the captain was someone who really understood not only how to solve this issue, but how to take advantage of it. And he made sure everybody on that ship realized how lucky their loved one or date, whoever it was, was to be on that ship because he fed, entertained, slept. Uh, you know, all these people by getting all of his senior people and all of their crews to figure out the best way to make sure that all these people were not only comfortable and felt secure, but had a great time. He didn't sleep the whole time and, and walked around the ship, introduced himself to everybody, and, uh, and you know made it. A really fun experience. And Eileen, you'll be proud to know it was my first network placement because we decided to send out a news release to say, hey, here's what happened to the Shangri-La. We're at sea with about 1,000 people. And that night on CBS News, Rob, Walter Cronkite is said to have said, and good night, Shangri La, wherever you are. [00:18:41][139.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:18:43] Well, I mean, talk about turning, you know, lemons into lemonade. That's totally right. I was thinking of the other analogy first and I realized, you know, Yeah. [00:18:51][8.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:18:51] Crisis into opportunity, yes. [00:18:53][2.2]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:18:53] Yeah, totally right. It was really a lot of fun. And you had a chance to spend time with people and see people that you never would have normally. And it was a great experience. And if you Google it, you still see lines about the Independence Day cruise of 1972. [00:19:11][17.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:19:13] Wow. You just dated yourself. Everybody thought you were 35 years old, Rich. [00:19:17][3.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:17] What you still look like [00:19:18][1.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:19:19] No, this guy is, he's doing just fine. So let me ask you this question as we move on here. How can communicators, like all of us here on this podcast, leverage the benefits of EQ? What are your thoughts there? [00:19:32][13.1]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:19:32] Well, Eileen would be a good one to answer that. You know, I think it is providing opportunities for people that have a high EQ to be able to utilize it. So there's not a lot of boxes that people get put into, but you find out what they're totally capable of. So that's one thing, you know, there's a great book called Unprecedented written by a bunch of Canadian CEOs after COVID. And one of the things that I read. Every chapter of about 45 of these CEOs, the commonality was that you begin to see who you can count on, that you're looking at a room full of people and someone says, oh my god, we've got to do X. And someone says well, hey boss, I'll take care of that. And it's like, oh my God, who are you? Well, you're someone who had the motivation, you might have had the talent, but you were going to figure it out. But the main thing is you weren't afraid to raise your hand and say, I'll do it. And so I guess one thing is to make sure you have an environment where the people that have all those right capabilities are able to ascend and take over more and more responsibility because they're the ones that really make a difference to who you are as a company and who you are as people. [00:20:44][71.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:20:44] I love that and awesome book recommendation. We will put that in the show notes. Thank you. [00:20:48][4.1]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:20:48] Yeah. We wonder what the other two things are that I took away. The second one was you cannot over communicate. And the third one was it's amazing how fast you can get things done when you really have to. [00:20:59][11.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:00] Absolutely. You're here. You'll get no argument from us. Nothing should take that long. 100%. Great book. I'm going to gobble that book up. That's awesome. Every chapter, I'll be saying, yes, yes. Okay, so next question, rapid fire, just kidding. Knowing what we know about EQ, how can company leaders recruit and develop talent that has a high EQ? And how do they identify it in someone that they may not know very well, you know? They just kind of started at the company. How do you identify it? [00:21:32][31.8]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:21:33] Yeah, good. Really good question. You know, I think there are some clues that can be identified in a resume. When I review resumes for young people, especially, I try to encourage them to put some things there that show you are more than just someone who is interested in a career in PR or have had three internships or whatever. Show something about your interests, your personality, the kind of culture that you'll be comfortable working in because of the jobs you've had, whether they're part-time working at the GAP or whatever, or the clubs you belong to in college. So there's that. The references that you check, you can always probe for EQ, certainly. But in the interview process, I think it's easy, just like spotting Eileen walking down the hallway. Are they coming into that interview with a smile on their face? Do they look like they've got some confidence? Are they comfortable and not stressed out? Are they asking questions, which they've got to be doing if they're curious people that you want to have as colleagues? It kills me when you ask after you've talked for a while, would you have any questions and they say, oh, no, but really, you don't have any question, you think I've covered everything that you should want to know by working here. I try to end that conversation rather quickly because I want people who are curious and therefore are asking questions. You can always do a little test. Hey, D, tell me what would happen if you came into work someday in X or how would you respond to Y to see how they might react to that? I love it when they ask questions about employee development and training. If I haven't mentioned that, I want them to ask me, well, what do you do to make sure that my career is progressing here? I am not offended if they ask me, where can I expect to be in five years? I'd like to turn that around on them and say, well, where do you want to be in five years? And I hope they've thought about that. If they have any IQ and or EQ, they will have thought about it. [00:23:36][123.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:23:37] And he must have hired a lot of people. That's it. I have hired a lot [00:23:40][3.7]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:23:40] I have hired a lot of people and I have to say, I've hired a lot of really good people. And it's fun to keep in touch with them and see what's happened. It's not just me either, by the way, it's a, I think a team of people, by the way, is the other way to do the recruiting and the interviewing so that you can get to better get together afterwards and say, well, hey, how'd they answer this question with you compared to how they might have answered it with me to see if they're being consistent? [00:24:06][26.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:24:06] So smart. [00:24:07][0.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:07] Yeah, that's a great tip. [00:24:08][1.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:24:09] That's a great tip. So, Rich, as we wrap up the episode here, and we could go on forever because we just scratched the surface on this and you've already provided us plenty of tremendous wisdom, do you have any final thoughts on what I think is a crucial subject that will help our listeners grasp the topic of EQ? [00:24:26][17.2]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:24:26] Well, yes, I do. First of all, I want to be able to say that having an EQ, by the way, you can do something about your EQ. You cannot do too much about your IQ. My wife taught in a gifted program for years, and the parents who would call and say, how do I get my child into your program? They didn't quite make the cut. And the answer would be, well, your child needs new parents. [00:24:48][21.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:49] Different DNA. [00:24:50][0.7]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:24:53] But EQ you can do something about, I think, but I'll tell you, EQ is a great way to protect yourself from AI. Because so far anyway, AI can't develop compassion or have a desire to help others or do the things that people with EQ have, you know, at least not yet. And when AI develops that, you're going to have to assume it's artificial. So how can you rely on that? So I think it's something that young people need to be really thinking about and doing something about it. And there's all kinds of information about what you can do to develop your EQ. And if you wanted a book idea, Eileen, it is me, but better. Did you happen to see it last week on CBS Sunday morning? [00:25:35][42.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:25:35] Yeah. I heard about it. Yes. I haven't read it. [00:25:37][2.0]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:25:37] Fascinating story and the book is full of tips on what you can do to alter your personality, to make you a little more compassionate, a little more friendly, a more risk-averse, a little more collaborative, all the things that we think are important in people that have a high EQ. [00:25:55][18.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:25:57] I totally believe 100% that you can improve it. Because when I think back to young Eileen, who you knew, you think I had it, but I know I didn't have it in the ways that I needed to have it to be collaborative with team members and other things initially, and I had to learn it. And I recognized if I don't learn it, I'm going nowhere. [00:26:15][18.0]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:26:15] Well, good for you. [00:26:16][0.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:16] It's the truth. Because I was always like sole survivor kind of mentality, like always just kind of blazing the trail, getting it done. But when I got into an agency environment, I recognized pretty quickly, I don't know how to do that. Those people get along really well. How do I figure out how to that? And mentors at Golan, that's how I got it. So today you have so many more resources at your disposal. Like this great book you've mentioned. I 100% concur that it is something that can be learned and should be learned, but I especially love that you pointed out that it's a differentiator in this age of AI, because that's just another way that humans win. So, well. [00:26:58][41.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:59] It makes perfect sense. Eileen, you've always had an abundance of self-awareness, and that's what we're also talking about here, that starts with self- awareness. Realizing you're not the only person in the room. I think that's terrific advice. [00:27:10][11.0]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:27:10] Yeah. And followed by some self-management so that you know how to use the awareness that you've created for your talents. And strengths and weaknesses, by the way, is a huge asset. [00:27:22][11.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:27:24] Oh, my gosh. I wish we could talk forever. Sadly, we can't, but you're coming back on this show, Rich, if you want to. I think that we've just scratched the surface here. Your wisdom is tremendous and I'm so grateful. And so is Rob, for you being on the show, Rich Jernstead with the Jernstedt Company. We thank you for being here with us. And if you wanna try this again, we'll have you back. [00:27:46][22.0]
Rich Jernstedt: [00:27:47] All right, I'd be happy to. [00:27:48][0.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:27:48] Very much. You too. It's just so much incredible information. And again, it feels like we've barely been talking about it and there's so much more to talk about. So we will have you on again. But for now, that's going to do it for another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson. If you'd like to comment on the podcast or suggest a topic, please reach us at our Can Hear Me Podcast page on LinkedIn. [00:28:11][22.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:11] And I'm Eileen Rochford. If you liked what you heard, please consider giving our show, Can You Hear Me, a positive review wherever you get your podcasts like Apple or Spotify, because your reviews help other listeners find our show. Thanks very much for listening today. [00:28:11][0.0]
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