Last year, it was one of our most popular “Can You Hear Me?” podcasts. Hearing from the next generation of employees about what they want from their professional experience. This time we are back with a new group of interns, asking them what they have observed about the changing dynamics of the workplace and how they can use that to have a positive professional experience. Join co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson as they hear from this high-achieving and diverse group of young people, and will even have the interns turn the tables on them, in the “Can You Hear Me?” podcast, The Next Generation Workforce Speaks Out.
Special Intern Guests: Check out the future talent and their work! Connect with them!
Avery Resendiz
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/avery-resendiz-882a01221/
Portfolio: https://www.averyresendizportfolio.com/
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Karolina (Karol) Skoczen
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karolina-skoczen-897a631a7/
Instagram for Art: https://www.instagram.com/atalieey/
Karol's Band, DIVISOR: https://linktr.ee/divisor_ (song at fade out is "I Want This City to Kill Me")
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Sean Valentin
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sean-valentin-6508a0197/
Eileen Rochford [00:01:00] Hello again, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm The Harbinger Group.
Rob Johnson [00:01:10] And I'm Rob Johnson, former TV news anchor and now president of Rob Johnson Communications. You know, when we started this podcast a little over a year ago, one of the first episodes we did, and I should mention the episode got some great numbers during July of 2021, was titled What Women Want: The New Workforce Speaks Out. We, or should I say, Eileen, convinced three of the Harbinger Group's female summer interns to come on and talk about what they were looking for in a career.
Eileen Rochford [00:01:38] Yes, I don't know that it took that much convincing, but they were very willing participants, and that was a fabulous show. I enjoyed it so much and I'm really excited to be doing this again with our new cohort of 2022 interns at The Harbinger Group. This group of interns, while not all female, is a fabulous bunch of talented young people, and I'd like to introduce each of them. So first off, we have Karol Skoczen, who is studying psychology at DePaul. She'll be graduating this fall in November. Karol is also a self-taught, very talented graphic designer and musician. Welcome, Karol.
Karolina Skoczen [00:02:23] Really happy to be there.
Eileen Rochford [00:02:24] Oh, fabulous. It's all good. We love having you here. And thank you. And Sean Valentin is up next. Sean just graduated in May from Loyola University in Chicago, where he studied PR and advertising. Welcome, Sean.
Sean Valentin [00:02:41] Hi, I'm very excited to be here.
Eileen Rochford [00:02:44] And next, we have Avery Resendiz who is an undergraduate student in her junior year at Columbia College, Chicago, where she is studying PR and broadcast journalism. Welcome, Avery.
Avery Resendiz [00:02:58] Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Eileen Rochford [00:03:01] And we thank you all for being here today. It's going to be a fabulous show. I've enjoyed working with each of you so much in the time that you've been with us, most of you since I think mid-to-late May. So we've been getting to know each other really well and I've been seeing your fabulous work.
Rob Johnson [00:03:20] And we really do appreciate everybody being here. As you may know, today's episode is titled The Next Generation Workforce Speaks Out. Not only will Eileen and I be asking these dynamic group of interns questions, but we'll also throw a little wrinkle in the plan here, and we're going to have them ask us questions toward the end of it. It should be a lot of fun today.
Eileen Rochford [00:03:42] Yes, I love turning the tables into fun exercise. I mean, we can't always be the ones doing the interviewing, you know?
Rob Johnson [00:03:50] Exactly. I mean, the sound of our own voices is great, but- Oh, actually, when we answer, we hear the sound of our own voices.
Eileen Rochford [00:03:57] Yeah, exactly. So, let's get rolling here. We have a bunch of questions. I've got one in particular I'd like to tee off with. So, so far, I mean, gosh, it's been like, I think 4 to 6 weeks for most of you all thus far interning at The Harbinger Group. And after you're done here- and after you graduate, Avery- what kind of job would you like to get? What kind of dream job, if you will, are you would, you know, get you super excited once you graduate? So, Karol, let's start with you. You're graduating in November. Tell us about your vision of a dream job.
Karolina Skoczen [00:04:41] Yeah, absolutely. I definitely would want to work in the creative world, in the creative business. That's the dream. My like "if I could have it" I would love to have a venue where I could like make and design merchandise or album art for musicians while also promoting musicians and having a place where I can create and allow musicians to play. I really like doing backend. I also really like doing planning for shows and stuff like that. So that's like the dream. But if we want to think like in the near future, so whatever, I'm either done here at the Harbinger Group or after I graduate, I would actually really like to work as a graphic designer for musicians and artists or as a promoter. And I've been doing that with my band, so I feel like I could extend that experience even further. Maybe working for a label. I would just like to be doing something creative. I know I'm a psychology major, but I kind of decided to scrap that idea. I'm keeping my degree and I think it would be really useful in marketing and promotion. But I would like to really hone in my creative skills if I were to pursue something that would be considered my dream job.
Rob Johnson [00:06:32] I think having a psychology degree in something in an industry like that would be very useful. So, yeah, even though you're not, it's not something you're going to leverage down the road necessarily. It's still going to be very useful and quickly. What's the name of the band? Since we're here, we got to hear the name of the band.
Karolina Skoczen [00:06:50] Oh, boy. Our band's name is Divisor. We are a hardcore/post-punk/industrial band- is how I describe us. I can hear our sound recording tech through this podcast, cringing as they're listening to the podcast.
Eileen Rochford [00:07:15] They happen to also be a band member, if I recall.
Karolina Skoczen [00:07:19] They happen to be the drummer.
Eileen Rochford [00:07:21] That's right. Well, where can people check out your band, Karol? In case they're interested.
Karolina Skoczen [00:07:29] We're primarily active on Instagram. All of our links are there. But if you are curious to go and listen to the two and a quarter songs that we have out, they are out on Spotify, Apple, all streaming services. So if hardcore is your thing, feel free to check us out.
Eileen Rochford [00:07:50] Fabulous. And I love the way that you described the job that you're seeking and it's a really cool fusion of a lot of your interests and talents. Sean, let's hear from you. How about your dream job?
Sean Valentin [00:08:02] I think I'm still, you know, not quite sure what exactly the dream job looks like. I think working here at The Harbinger Group for the past few months has definitely helped sort of solidify what I'm looking for. I'd love to continue doing the same type of work that I've done here at The Harbinger Group in the future. You know, I feel like I'm have been very fortunate to be able to do a little bit of everything, whether that be, you know, earned media and reaching out and trying to get reporters to cover a story or whether that be, you know, a research project and just, you know, having to compile all this data and just like put that together either in a spreadsheet or a deck. I feel like I've enjoyed all of that and I definitely would like to continue doing that in the future. And I guess that is my dream job; is to just kind of keep doing the same work that I've been doing.
Rob Johnson [00:09:08] How is it trying to get those reporters to cover a story? They can be they can be a feisty bunch- having been one of them for many years.
Sean Valentin [00:09:18] Yeah, it can be a little challenging, you know, when when you don't get a reply, but that first joy or euphoria you get when someone, you know, finally responds and says, you know, "we'd love to cover it, can we get a little more info?" is definitely what makes that side of what I've been doing so exciting.
Rob Johnson [00:09:45] And if you get that kind of adrenaline rush, then that means you're heading into the right career, because when you start off, you're making a lot of money and you're having to, you know, make sacrifices and, you know, have some assignments that maybe aren't the greatest because you're the new person. You need to have that little sense of energy that you might feel that you just described. So I think you're heading in the right direction there, Sean.
Sean Valentin [00:10:09] I think so, too.
Eileen Rochford [00:10:13] Okay, Avery, let's hear it. What's your dream job?
Avery Resendiz [00:10:17] So I've always considered myself to be a pretty realistic person. And I'm not sure that I'm supposed to know what my dream job is or that anyone else in their twenties is really supposed to know. You know, I've gone through almost four years of college, but this is the first company that I've worked with that actually relates to the industry I want to go into, which right now is PR. So with the lack of experience, I'm like, "how am I supposed to know what job title would best suit me or what I would enjoy the most?" I also know that right out of college, I'm most likely going to have an entry level position because you know, you have to start somewhere. So my goal as of right now is to hopefully land another internship before I graduate, and then I'll honestly take whatever opportunity that comes my way. And in general, I think my goal right now is just to be able to take care of myself without anyone else's help. And obviously, that goal is going to change with time because I will constantly want to excel in my career- I'm not really the type of person to ever just get comfortable with where they are. I think I'll always be a career driven person, but the ultimate goal would definitely to be in Eileen's position.
Eileen Rochford [00:11:23] Yeah, nice!
Rob Johnson [00:11:24] Watch out.
Eileen Rochford [00:11:24] Love that, yeah, I like that a lot.
Rob Johnson [00:11:28] I was waiting for Avery to say what she wanted to and then she saved it for the end.
Eileen Rochford [00:11:34] Yeah, zinger! Nice one. I think that's great. And I also admire, you know, the pragmatic approach that you have in terms of your thinking right now, because that's very true. Everything that you said is very true, right. For all of you guys. There is a little bit of the take which you can get just to get your foot in the door as you've heard all your lives and probably a lot in college. So having that open mindset of at least "I'm in the type of company that interests me, that does the kind of work that, you know, ultimately I want to do long term," but maybe in the first six months to 12 months or even longer, who knows? You won't be getting all the premium assignments and you might be doing some things that you think, "Why is this part of marketing? I don't get this?" But over time, you know, you'll start to see how all the pieces connect and add up. So I love that you're both pragmatic and have big dreams. That's great. And I think all of you have perfect mindset for entering the workforce really soon.
Rob Johnson [00:12:44] I think another thing that I observed from these three fine young people is that they're putting themselves in positions where they see themselves. In other words, yes, when you're doing an internship, the great thing about internships is you find out what you're really like and what you don't like, and then all of a sudden that can help guide you down the road of, "okay, I'm not going to get my dream job right out of school, but how do I set myself up for what I want to be my dream job?" And Karol, you talked about, "listen, I want to be hanging around the recording industry and I'm going to sit there and do graphic art work and I'm going to help, you know, do some of the work with the bands." I mean, that's that's putting yourself in the position for your dream job. And and I think Sean and Avery, the same can be said for you. You know, even though, you know, Avery saved her big reveal at the end. "I want to be Eileen," which is terrific, but working at an agency like that is going to give you a really good idea of what you like, what you don't like. And when you're a professional, you have to them all. But it also helps guide you and helps you become a more defined professional.
Rob Johnson [00:13:53] And with that, let's move on and ask some more questions of our excellent group here. So I guess I want to know what your expectations are as a new person in the workplace or getting ready to be new people in the workplace. You know, the employer-employee relationship has changed in the past few years. Eileen and I talk about it all the time, which means employees can dictate what terms are important to them. So, with that in mind, as you sit here and you think about just that first job and getting out in the workforce and knowing that historically it's always like you're doing this, you're doing that, you're doing that, which is still going to be true to an extent. But the fact that employees can have some input into where they're headed in ways they haven't before. What is important to you all when you're looking for that first job? Sean, let's start with you.
Sean Valentin [00:14:49] Yeah. I think unfortunately, Eileen has kind of ruined it because, you know, working at The Harbinger Group has been great. I've learned a lot, but it's also very friendly and, you know, cohesive workplace. Unfortunately, I think I'm a little tainted. But I think what I can take away from the great experience working for Eileen would be I think I would like a hybrid work situation just because I think the past few years have shown that you don't always have to be at the office to be able to do your job effectively. But I think especially as a young professional, being in the office definitely has its benefits. You can maybe learn a little bit more just because you're right there, you know, a few cubicles down from a boss or supervisor. But then you also get to make connections I think that you may not necessarily get to make if you're working in a fully remote environment. You know, you get to go out for lunch or drinks after work with your other coworkers. I think one of the other expectations of what I would want in a new job is, you know, just have room for growth. I would like to, you know, at least envision myself starting at the bottom at a firm, but have that room to move up into a management sort of position would be I think a big boon.
Eileen Rochford [00:16:53] Smart. And I'll just say I'm really sorry we ruin things for you, but I'm sure there are a lot of companies out there with a really, really good environments like ours. And due credit to all the other folks you're working with here who helped make that such a nice experience for you. And we're happy to hear it. So Tony and Kelly and Megan, everybody, they've all contributed big to, you know, you having a good experience. So I thank them for that.
Rob Johnson [00:17:19] And I think the other thing to talk about, too, as it relates to this, Sean, is that I think the hybrid model is here to stay. I think, as you pointed out, people have figured out, oh, gosh, we can work a day or two or whatever from home and we can still get the job done. We can still be successful. We can still provide our employees with some flexibility, which is now a big selling point, I think, for a lot of people. But still, we can have the collaborative process in the office if that's something that's been part of what we have done in the past. So I think you're spot on with them with that. So, Avery, what do you think about this? What's important for you as you're looking or getting ready to look for that first job?
Avery Resendiz [00:18:01] Yes. So definitely similar to Sean. I think flexibility is a big thing. I would love to be in an office for like the social aspect and to get to know my coworkers. But I also want to have the opportunity to work remotely on some days. But I think what ultimately is important to me is to be somewhere where there is mutual respect. I have thankfully experienced this at Tthe Harbinger Group. I think that something that has really stuck with me, is that everyone I've worked with has asked me my opinion on assignments and has told me like, you know, your opinion is valid. What do you think? And a lot of people in internships that I know haven't really gotten to experience this. So I think that's definitely raised my standards for whatever job I do decide to interview with. And, you know, also just to be in a productive environment with good communication so that I can do my best work.
Eileen Rochford [00:18:54] Very nice. Well, I'm delighted to hear that you're regularly being asked your opinion and that it matters because that is a huge part of our culture here. And you guys have had fabulous ideas, each and every one of you. So you're super smart people and I encourage you no matter where you go, what you do, to keep contributing your ideas. As long as you do that, I think you'll have a very successful career.
Rob Johnson [00:19:20] And that's the sign of a great organization too, Eileen is the fact that, you know, you have meetings with your leadership team and that sort of thing, but getting that input from everybody, from all those voices young, new, established and more senior is so important. So, again, kudos for the culture that's been created there.
Eileen Rochford [00:19:40] Thank you. All right, Karol. Let's hear it.
Karolina Skoczen [00:19:45] So, while I agree with everyone, I think my number one thing, my number one expectation is for my employer to respect my work life balance. For transparency, I'm currently working two internships and my previous workplace did not respect the fact that I was working a couple of jobs, doing work for my band, going to school, and also maintaining my own personal life. You know, asking me to come in and do a nine hour work shift while I'm doing finals, for instance, because somebody didn't want to come in, you know, that type of thing. I understand that you can be understaffed. I understand that you need somebody to do work. But I think there is a line to draw between running a company ethically versus exploiting new workers. And while I have not experienced that here at The Harbinger Group or at my other internship, which is a blessing, truly. But I know that not everyone, especially not everyone- I know a lot of people who have not finished a degree, have not pursued academia as seriously as we have. And I know often those jobs that employ people with just a GED, will exploit those employees, so I think it's just like a top expectation that I have is just to, as much as I want to do work. I also want my boundaries for my work versus life to be respected. I think that's my number one priority.
Eileen Rochford [00:21:48] Oh, it is so great to hear you say that, Karol, especially this early on in your life to have made that a priority for yourself. I totally applaud you. Everybody listening to this, you know, if you're younger and entering the workforce, the sooner that you decide your priorities in terms of your personal life and how to protect that and balance that with your work, that's, you know, income generating, the happier you're going to be as a human being. So well done. Really happy to hear you say that. And I hope that everybody who ever comes through our doors at the Harbinger Group feels that we have deep respect and reverence almost for the personal time and that if you know, you're sick, you don't come to work. That's crazy. You don't work hours longer than you need to if the project is done really well, all those things. Those things don't make you a better professional. And one thing that I think is great coming out of the pandemic is that way of thinking, way of life seems to have gone by the wayside to a large degree. So at least for now and I'm happy to see that.
Rob Johnson [00:23:03] It's also a great learning experience, I think. And when I heard you talk about this, Karol, it made me wonder, you know, I said earlier, the great thing about internships is you find what you like or what you don't like. That's also in reference to various other jobs that you're taking. Let me ask you this; what has it taught you about the questions you ask? Because you don't want to come in to a meeting for a job interview and then be like, "I don't want to do this, this, this" "Here are my parameters," so you have to really toe the line. But you also have to get a sense, "are these people going to work me to the bone and not respect my boundaries?" So what has it taught you about what questions you would ask your employer the next time?
Karolina Skoczen [00:23:44] Whoo! That's a good one. That is a real good one. I need like a second to think. I think the way that I would approach it, I guess, or rather setting that boundary is by simply kind of explaining the work that I'm willing to do first, just kind of being like I have a fast turnaround- as a graphic designer, you know, I can take on multiple projects and as long as I have like a concise description of what my client wants, you know, I could get it out pretty quickly, especially if I have a deadline. So, like, I think the most important thing I ask for is deadlines so that way I can also work my schedule around. And then if I come in hit a roadblock, then I would just be like, here's my schedule. Let me phrase it a different way. If I'm being interviewed and my employer is asking me for, like, an insane turnaround, for instance, these questions, I would be asking questions like, "Oh, how quickly do you want me to get things done?" "When are project deadlines?" You know, like "how far in advance will I know about a deadline so I can finish a project while also being able to respect my schedule" because my employer, even just by looking at my resume, will know that I am going to be present in multiple other projects while I'm working with them. The language I wouldn't use is "I can't do this" or "this is not possible for me" or "I want less work." I think the language rather would be "What is my timeframe?" Because I plan out everything. I plan out my week, I plan out which projects I'm going to tackle on what day. So that way I can do everything pretty quickly and also give my best quality of work while working on multiple other things. So, long winded way to answer your question.
Rob Johnson [00:26:24] No, it's a terrific answer.
Eileen Rochford [00:26:27] I agree. I think you're totally moving in the right direction. And I'll say, you know, all of you guys, you're very organized and you're very good about asking questions. And I've witnessed that, and you personally, Karol, I think that's an excellent skill. I'll offer a little bit of advice if this is on the mind of anyone listening, certainly the three of you in a in an interview situation, it's always wise to ask things about business hours and what is the expectation of the employer for being able to contact you as an employee after business hours, including weekends, right? It is completely reasonable to ask, "So, what's the policy about reaching out to me?" Or, you know, just employees in general via our mobile phone after hours and is then asking- hopefully you're going to be allowed to speak to other folks in an organization who may not be direct supervisors and just ask them about their experience. "Does that happen often? Do you find yourself working on weekends?" Those are very fair questions to ask. If they're done in, you know, kind of an exploratory way and delivered without, you know, judgment tone, you know what I'm saying? I think that that's a very fair thing and smart thing to ask. It gives you a sense of how much are they going to be piling on you outside of kind of typical work hours?
Eileen Rochford [00:27:55] All right, so thank you. So let's move on to one more question from us and then we're going to do something different. So you guys are all gen-zers, I have a couple of those in my household, too. So now that I know, you know, the generation well as a result of it, but it is a very unique generation in some incredible ways, in my personal opinion, from experience. I'd like to know what you all think being part of your generation, Gen Z, that you have to offer employers that sets you apart from your competition for those jobs. So this is kind of a tough question, right? We're asking you to talk about yourself, but also recognizing you're part of a generation that has pioneered a lot of things. And so you have skills that you know, those who've come before you may not. So we'd like to hear about that. And we're going to start with Avery. Let's hear what you think.
Avery Resendiz [00:28:53] Yes. So I think that being a part of Gen Z, we can all relate more to the upcoming generation. So we do offer a fresh perspective. And I mean, we were all pretty much born with phones in our hand. So I do have a vast understanding of how social media works because like I said, it's all I've ever known. So I think that social media plays a huge part in what's to come and what's trending in the different industries. And that goes back to, again, relating to my own generation as well as the generations to come. I also think that I work really well independently, but I also have that mindset where I can work with the group. You know, I've always told people that you may not get to control who you work with or what you're doing, but you do get to control your attitude you have while doing it. So I think that's pretty much where I stand on that question.
Eileen Rochford [00:29:47] Excellent answer. I love the social media, you know, native understanding and facility and you know, you're going into marketing. So that's a huge leg up just because you've you've been raised in it. So it's a it's a plus for all three of you when it comes to doing marketing and honestly, even Karol design, because you've grown up in a visual world having that phone in your hand. Right. So, Karol, I hope I didn't step on your answer there because I don't know what it's going to be. But you're next. Let's hear what you think.
Karolina Skoczen [00:30:23] You know, I don't think you did, but that was definitely good inspiration for me. My answer was going to be that we as Gen Z are very, very multidisciplinary. I mean, I'm just speaking for myself mainly, but I feel like, you know, because we are in both the digital and the-I hate to say it- the real world, we kind of have experience in both the digital realm as well as, you know, the physical/social realm. And all of us kind of gravitate towards a multitude of disciplines, especially having a liberal arts education primarily. You know, I feel like everyone has some type of artistic experience. I feel like everyone has some type of computer science experience. I feel like everyone has a pretty well-rounded scope, I guess, of things that can offer. Plus, we are extremely diverse, generally speaking, as a generation, and I feel like because we are also very culturally aware and diverse, that way we can add a lot to businesses. You know, it's not just I guess to put it in the stereotypical way, just a bunch of cis white men, if you will. Well have a lot of things to offer. You know, a lot of us are women. A lot of us are queer. A lot of us have engaged in like. I guess a lot of self-discovery in terms of like our previous cultures, especially if you're an immigrant. I feel like there's a lot more embracing of our cultures. I think we bring that and those perspectives into businesses, into the workplace, because, I mean, we're like as a generation, we're not shy about it. You know, I feel like we're one of the generations that kind of super embrace it.
Rob Johnson [00:32:51] A wonderful answer. That's a wonderful answer. And I think it's so important what you just pointed out, Karol, that, you know, your background bringing that and sharing that with your your coworkers, with the office, that sort of thing is just key because for years and years it was one type of person that was in an office environment. And there was no different experience. And now people are coming at it from all different angles and from all different cultures and things of that nature. And I think it's just wonderful that you see it in that fashion, because I think that that's what's really going to make a workplace better.
Eileen Rochford [00:33:29] I agree and I welcome and seek young folks like yourselves to have all of the beliefs that you just described, Karol, to be kind of in my sphere, our sphere as much as possible. You know, I'm probably looking at, you know, 10 to 15 years more of my work life, you guys are looking at the whole, you know, rest of your work life. But in my back half, I want to learn from you guys and your attitudes of acceptance and inclusion and how you model that. So I'm personally, you know, thrilled to have all of you and people of your generation in our realm largely to learn from. So thank you for being so willing to embrace and share.
Rob Johnson [00:34:17] Good stuff.
Eileen Rochford [00:34:17] Anyway. So, well, let's move on.
Rob Johnson [00:34:23] Sean, what do you say?
Eileen Rochford [00:34:24] Yeah.
Sean Valentin [00:34:28] Yeah. I guess this is the downside to answering the question last is the two people before you just answer it so perfectly. I do, you know, think that what really sets us apart is, like Avery said, is, you know, social media and technology. So I think it's important for sweet people such as yourselves, to recognize that we do bring that facet to the workplace, that maybe it hasn't been there before. And I think, you know, it's important to realize that, you know, just because we're young and new, that when it comes to I think social media in particular, that maybe we will have, a better idea of where to take the company, like Instagram, like what kind of stuff to post or like you see all these companies on TikTok now. And I think it's important to realize that maybe, you know, the newer employees, the younger employees might have a better idea of of how to best take advantage of that then, you know, the boss would.
Eileen Rochford [00:35:55] Great points Sean, totally agree. I witnessed something funny happen recently. I don't know that it's funny, I thought it was great. Someone who shall not be named, who's very close to me was writing something for work and they asked another young person in our household to read it because it was about a subject area that, really the young person in our house being in Gen Z was much closer to than the older person in their house. And I loved seeing them reach out to the younger person to to seek their input despite the fact that, you know, they're not even out of college yet. And I just loved it. So, you're 100% right. You guys have perspectives on many, many issues that it's super important for marketers, for all leaders in any industry to be sure to be including, seeking, etc.. So I think as you approach, you know, your beginning of your careers remembering that about yourselves and sticking this, you know, kind of into your mind every morning when you start your workday. Like I have perspectives that really matter to the future of the world, this industry. And I'm going into work today with the confidence to include my perspectives. I think that would be a tremendous thing if you were to do that for yourselves.
Rob Johnson [00:37:31] And Eileen, I love when you were talking about being a lifelong, you know, talking about learning and on the back half of your career, learning from the younger people. And to take your anecdote and share one that's almost similar in my household, I'm working on a few YouTube projects and we're working on one in our household as well. And we have relied on our 17 year old for like YouTube. You watch it all the time, you subscribe,you know, you're part of it. What kind of advice do you give us? And so we lean on the 17 year old- who's not even out of high school yet- to give us that sort of great advice, because, you know, we're a little older, so fully support that and that's happening in our house as well.
Eileen Rochford [00:38:14] I'm sure you're getting great guidance, too.
Rob Johnson [00:38:16] Excellent guidance. Really good insight.
Eileen Rochford [00:38:18] Now are you paying that counselor in Dunkin money or how does that work?
Rob Johnson [00:38:23] You know, he doesn't have a summer job, so he's doing okay. And I don't feel too sorry for him. He's doing just fine. But, yes, when push comes to shove, if he needs to run by Dunkin, we can do that. So this is fun for us. We haven't done this this way yet in our two dozen plus podcasts, but we're going to flip the tables a little bit here and allow all of you to ask Eileen and me a few questions. And so I think this is a great idea. Eileen, it was yours. And let's see where it goes.
Rob Johnson [00:39:06] All right, Avery, you're the first up. What question do you have for us?
Avery Resendiz [00:39:10] Yes. So, do you guys have any regrets in your career so far?
Eileen Rochford [00:39:17] Gosh. Who doesn't, Avery? I'll say. Yeah, I have one to share. So, early in my career and this is probably closer to college years. I had an interest in and some opportunities to go more in the direction of broadcast journalism. And I don't know that I'd call it a regret because I'm very happy, you know, with kind of where my career has gone. But it's the kind of thing that I think about every once in a while, like, "Oh God, I really loved that. What would have happened if I'd gone in that direction instead?" Of course, we'll never know. But being able to do something like now this podcast, both creatively and just because, you know, it kind of falls in that, you know, broadcast realm. I find myself thinking about that time in my life more, you know, lately, like, "oh, that would have been really cool." So, I think I might have a little bit of regret around not pursuing broadcast journalism. I'll offer that one. What about you, Rob?
Rob Johnson [00:40:25] Well, I would say mine is a little bit similar, even though I was in broadcast journalism. And I first want to start off and say that I really don't have any regrets. I regret the way things kind of turned out in different scenarios. But in terms of regrets, I feel like this is what made me the person that I am today. However, I will say this many moons ago, when my son was just one, he was a newborn and and we were a much younger family. And I said, "gosh, I'd really like to do national news." And 25 years ago, that meant some romantic place like, you know, Paris or London, and go be a correspondent and wear a trench coat. And I was like, that, that sounds terrific. But after the the war started against Iraq and there was news coverage in Iraq and Afghanistan and things like that, getting seasoning. So I'd say, "Hey, I want to go be the newsreader on Good Morning America, you know, Today's Show" or something like that. It wasn't a for sure thing, but it was like, "Well, if you're going to do that, we need you to go get some correspondent seasoning." And at that point in my life with my young family, it meant going and probably getting shot at in Iraq or Afghanistan as a war correspondent. And that was not a decision that I was comfortable with for me or my family. And ergo, I decided to stay in local news and get a good anchor job, which was terrific for many years. And so if there is one, if you want to call it a regret, it's that. Except it was a decision I made, though, and it's a decision I knew would change the trajectory of my career. But I wasn't willing to take that risk of going over and having something horrible happen to me and not being there for my family. So that was a decision I made. But is it a regret? Sort of.
Eileen Rochford [00:42:14] Yeah, I can see that. Good question. Avery. Do you have any follow ups?
Avery Resendiz [00:42:19] I don't think so. Thank you so much for answering.
Rob Johnson [00:42:23] All right. Our next questioner is Karol.
Karolina Skoczen [00:42:30] So my question pertains to growing your network. One thing that studying at DePaul I've heard is "Grow your network. Your network is important." So, would you guys say that like networks are more important than skills in the hiring process. As employers, do you guys look at someone's network and go, "Oh, yeah, I think they're a better candidate." Obviously, nepotism works in here, but I was just curious and how does social media also play into this? Do you guys look at influencers and think, "Oh, yeah, this is somebody I would like to hire?" So, yeah, I want to know your thoughts on that.
Rob Johnson [00:43:16] Well, I think there's a little bit to unpack there. First of all, how can you grow your network? You take opportunities wherever they are to meet people and to network with them and to get to know them. I mean, like right now, you all work for The Harbinger Group and we do some work together based upon this project, the podcast project. But all of the sudden you're like, "Well, I was on the podcast, now I know, Rob." So could any of you call me or email me or whatever based on this? Absolutely. So you're growing your network today. And so I want you to look at every opportunity like that when somebody that's in a, you know, a little older that may be hiring or maybe may know a few people and say, "hey, I can introduce you to various people." You always take a look at every opportunity. So that's number one. Number two, are networks more important than skills? I would say no, because skills and work ethic and being, you know, learning how to solve problems and things of that nature is very important. So what I look at somebody network, I'm really probably looking more at how do you conduct yourself on your network? Are you sitting there saying really wild political things? Are you, you know, are you respectful of others, things of that nature? So, in terms of the network that you're talking about, the social network, I think I'm going to be looking more at how do you conduct yourself on it than I am at anything else. And in terms of being an influencer and saying, oh, gosh, this person has 15,000 followers, I would love to have him or her as part of my organization- if the job that we were hiring for was relevant to that, like, "gosh, we need somebody that does social media, we need somebody that can get out there and really influence people and really get them on board and it will help our organization." Then the answer is yes. I would look at the network, the influencer capabilities and say, I think that's very important. But if the job, isn't that- the fact that you have 15,000 followers may not be so important to me. That's what I think.
Eileen Rochford [00:45:19] Mm-hmm. All of your points are completely valid, and I concur, Rob. I will add a few more points for you, Karol. So for growing your network, another thing to think about is, you know, for someone like you who's interested very much in graphic design for commercial purpose, you might take advantage of asking people, you know, in marketing; like me, like Rob, others- do you know, other great graphic designers who I could ask if they would give me 30 minutes of their time in by seeking their time as an expert, not necessarily a mentor, but are you willing to give, you know, 30 minutes of advice to a young person who's going into, you know, this type of graphic design? Many, many folks are really excited to do that. People really like helping new professionals, young professionals. So when you interview them, you're going to learn something that you didn't know, more than likely, and you'll make a connection to them. And they might be really willing to help you down the line or they may think of you when there's a job opening- things like that. So, that's something that you can do in a very concerted, intentional way on your own. You can also look for graphic design firms, branding firms, even just in Chicago, on LinkedIn and other means of research. Find out about them and start reaching out to some of the people on their staff who are graphic designers to do exactly what I just described. It's another way that you can expand your network in the space that's directly related to what you want to do. So there's that. I totally agree with Rob. Networks have little to no bearing when we are looking at new employee hires. It is all about the skills and it's all about the cultural fit. So, you know, will someone excel and fit in on our team in the way that we work together? Do they share our values, those things, alongside of having the right technical skills and areas of interest? That's what really matters to us, not your social network. I also agree with Rob, you know, kind of how you present on social networks does matter to a certain degree, but most young professionals have very little presence on things like LinkedIn. So I'll just say that that it does matter. So think about that. And then kind of like your own social influence, I don't know why that would even matter. Not for us. It's more your knowledge of how to use social platforms and observations of how, you know, influence works on social platforms. That's what would matter to us, you know, when we're hiring.
Rob Johnson [00:48:24] So good points.
Eileen Rochford [00:48:25] Those are my adds.
Rob Johnson [00:48:28] So, Sean, you have the final question here. So hammer away.
Sean Valentin [00:48:34] Yeah, I think you guys touched on it earlier, but as a professional, especially a young professional who, like I said, you know, just entering the workforce- how do you properly advocate for yourself in the workplace without coming across as pushy or demanding or, you know, being labeled, not a team player?
Eileen Rochford [00:49:02] Rob, do you wanna go first?
Rob Johnson [00:49:04] Yeah, that's you.
Eileen Rochford [00:49:04] I got it. Yeah, love to. Okay, so, Sean, this is an awesome question. I'm sure it's a question that a lot of people in your position think about, but maybe don't have the courage to ask. So I'm really glad you brought it up. The first is I would say try to find non-task specific opportunities to develop relationships with the people you work with. That includes your direct supervisor or supervisors, as well as, you know, maybe leaders in the organization outside of your direct supervisors. Because, you know, the more you establish relationships with them, the more you're going to learn from them, but also the more they'll get to know you and your style. So if perhaps you're not, you know, an extrovert and in marketing agencies, there's lots of extroverts who have no problem really speaking their minds. But if that's not your style, then finding opportunities to help people get to know you better so that they understand you in a non-pressured, you know, task specific way, I think will go a long way to your feeling comfortable or anyone's feeling comfortable to ask more questions and to see, "Oh, I can do this without them thinking that I'm being pushy." And also to gain, you know, everyone you work with to gain a better understanding just of you, you know, as a person and how you communicate. So that's one piece of advice that I have. Another thing is, I don't know if you're in the right company that anyone would ever think that if you were to speak up and ask questions and share information about what interests you, what projects you would like to work on, you know, what kind of swings at bat you really want to get. I don't think anyone would interpret that as being pushy, nor if you were in need of an explanation or further explanation of an assignment that you were given, that you're, you know, when you proactively seek clarity so that you can do a good job, no one would ever look at you in a negative way by doing that. So does that answer your question? Do you do you have a follow up before I toss it to Rob?
Sean Valentin [00:51:40] No, I think that pretty much answered my question.
Rob Johnson [00:51:45] I think Eileen really nailed it when she talked about finding those opportunities that are not task specific, where you can develop relationships with people. So the first thing I would say is when you go in there, do a lot of listening, do a lot of observing, unless somebody is like and- I'm not saying don't talk until you were spoken to, I'm not suggesting that at all. But there's a lot of information you can glean from just observing what's going on and then developing those relationships that Eileen's talking about. Very important, not necessarily based around the project, but just based around general work or just interpersonal dealings with people and letting them know who you are. So I think those are very important things. And then I think as you advocate for yourself, if you've developed those first two, if you've figured out who responds better to a certain way of going about talking to them, or if you've figured out, "Hey, I've developed a relationship with this person," then I think being direct and being respectful and there's nothing wrong with saying, "I'd really like to be part of that project," or "is there any more work I can do?" or "What else can I do to help make this project or this organization better?" that people are going to not, you know, they're not going to cringe at that. That's really important stuff. And the last thing is too, is be authentic. If you're not the person that steps forward and says, "hey, look at me and I'm ready and this and that." And she was talking about the extroverts in marketing, a lot of them are that way, that's not you, then don't be that person. Be authentic to who you are. That is so important on so many different fronts and that would be my advice as you sit here and try to navigate your way through an entry level job and let people to get to know you and then not be seen as like that young, pushy, demanding person.
Eileen Rochford [00:53:34] And I have one more addition to actually, as you were talking, Rob, that popped into my head. So, Sean, I took the word advocate when you said how to advocate for yourself. I took that to mean kind of communicating the opportunities that you want and seeking the work that you're interested in. Is that accurate? Just to make sure.
Rob Johnson [00:53:59] Is that what you were talking about Sean? I think that's how I interpreted it.
Sean Valentin [00:54:03] Yeah, I think it was a little bit. It was it was both that and I also, you know, just in the sense of like advocating for, you know, moving to like a hybrid situation or, you know, maybe it's been a few years like, you know, then you want to bring up like a potential like pay raise or something like that. Also in terms of like in that sort of situation as well as, you know, like getting yourself on to like projects and stuff like that.
Eileen Rochford [00:54:53] Gotcha. So, here's what I'll add within that vein, sometimes you're not going to get all the projects that you want, but if there is one in particular that you see that's in play in the organization and you are willing to do some extra work, maybe beyond the assignments you've already been given. Just dive in, do a little bit of just, you know, "I just wanted to try this out. And I did a little research and I found this element that might be useful to that other project. I know I'm not working on it, but I just wanted to offer it because this is an area that I'm really interested in." That's a tactic that I have seen work very well throughout my career. I've done it personally. I know lots of other people who've done it too, even people who have worked for me who have tried that out. And it just shows, you know, it shows initiative, it shows true interest. And then it has also shown me, "gosh, I didn't realize the person had that skill and they did a really good job. I'm going to give them more work like that." So think about that.
Rob Johnson [00:56:03] That initiative though, is spot on. That's what it shows, and people go, "hey, this person's serious. They want to do more." And all of a sudden, as a boss, you might see them in a bigger role because of that.
Eileen Rochford [00:56:16] Yeah. Well, thank you. These were fantastic questions. I hope you all learned something from the answers that we provided. That was a ton of fun. Everything. The answers you gave to what we asked you and the questions that you asked us. Thanks for all of it and for your time and being with us today. Sean, Karol, Avery, thank you so much. You were all terrific. And that's going to do it for another episode. Yes, that's another episode of Can You Hear Me? I'm Eileen Rochford.
Rob Johnson [00:56:50] And I'm Rob Johnson. We thank you for listening. And remember, you can listen to Can You Hear Me? Wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts and more. And we hope you join us again next time.