What do CEOs need to be thinking about right now when it comes to creating a culture of empowerment and an environment in which women thrive and contribute at the highest levels? Today, we're bringing in three voices of the emerging female workforce, the next generation, to tell us what they want and how they're going to evaluate potential employers as they embark on their entry to the workplace post-graduation in 2022. So listen up CEOs, we're going to conduct a mini focus group today that will be enlightening for all leadership teams.
It’s increasingly clear that organizations benefit significantly when women are well-represented in the workforce. Compelling research has shown that women in the workplace and gender diversity are key for organizations’ bottom lines. Female representation on boards, leadership teams and sales teams positively impact financial performance, including revenue, sales, and profits. But beyond the money, women have made a significant impact on overall job satisfaction, talent retention, diversity of thinking, and work-life balance. With the crushing wave of resignations and a talent war not seen in two decades, CEOs and leadership teams need to do all they can to attract, retain and advance women in their organizations. Today we will hear from three women who will soon enter the workforce. They will tell us what they want and what they are looking for when examining potential future employers. And, we will share best practices to help young female professionals succeed and advance in their chosen careers.
Rob Johnson (00:17):
Welcome to episode four of the Can You Hear Me? podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, former Chicago TV news, anchor, and now president of communications consulting firm, Rob Johnson Communications.
Eileen Rochford (00:27):
And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of marketing strategy and public relations firm, The Harbinger Group. As we continue our podcast series, Can You Hear Me? we wanted to discuss an issue that is of personal importance to me and one that is on the radar of high functioning corporate leadership teams, or it should be -- leveraging the power of women in your workforce. What do CEOs need to be thinking about right now when it comes to creating a culture of empowerment and an environment in which women thrive and contribute at the highest levels? Today, we're bringing in three voices of the emerging female workforce. The next generation to tell us what they want and how they're going to evaluate potential employers as they embark on their entry to the workplace post-graduation in 2022. So listen up CEOs, we're going to conduct a mini focus group today that will be enlightening for all leadership teams.
Rob Johnson (01:19):
Indeed it will be, Eileen. And in a few moments, we're going to be joined by three rising college seniors, Olivia Putrim, University of Wisconsin-Madison, Arianna Guerra, Ohio University, and Anna Wight from Tulane. Three women who are currently interning this summer and who will graduate from marketing focused programs next spring. Their job searches will be underway soon, as will their evaluation of the companies they want to work for.
Eileen Rochford (01:44):
And in addition to hearing straight from the emerging female workforce, we're going to share some communication best practices that will help future women leaders succeed in landing their first jobs and advancing in their careers. And as you will soon, see, it's not just the right thing to do, it's financially beneficial to have women in prominent leadership roles.
Rob Johnson (02:05):
First though, lets quickly cover why every organization and company should be working to attract, retain and advance women right now. Studies have shown that Fortune 500 companies with the highest representation of women on boards financially outperform companies with the lowest representation of women on boards. So there's a clear correlation between female board representation and the success of the largest companies.
Eileen Rochford (02:28):
And furthermore, Rob, studies have shown that gender diverse teams have higher sales and profits compared to male dominated teams. A recent Gallup study found that gender diverse business units have higher average revenues than less diverse business units.
Rob Johnson (02:43):
You know, but the benefits of having more women in the workplace are not limited to just financial gains, even though they are obvious and important. In fact, recently the Center for Creative Leadership released a groundbreaking study that showed having more women in the workplace makes an organization a better place to work for people of all genders.
Eileen Rochford (03:01):
Yes, those results demonstrated that having a higher percentage of women in the workplace predicted a greater job satisfaction, higher organizational dedication, and here's a really biggie right now, right, we're reading all about this-- less burnout. (Johnson) Very important. (Rochford) Additionally, they found that having more women in the workplace was positive, or positively related to employee engagement and retention, which is another thing. I mean, everybody's the great resignation right now, right? Keeping people is key.
Rob Johnson (03:31):
Well, the other thing too is you spend so much time and effort hiring talent, you want to retain them. You don't want to lose them. And interestingly ,men reported being more satisfied with their job, enjoying their work more and not feeling as burned out if they worked for companies that employed higher percentages of women. So let's bring in Anna, Arianna and Olivia to get their perspectives on this important topic. And, we mentioned that you are women soon to enter the workforce. So our first question, Anna we'll start with you, is what kind of workplace experience are you hoping for when you get out into the quote unquote real world?
Anna Wight (04:07):
Hi everyone. Um, I'm Anna. Yeah, I'm really excited to get out there, but I have some concerns definitely and I think that I'm really looking for an inclusive and empowering work environment and culture. That's really important to me, to be able to have, you know, non-competitive and supportive colleagues. And I think that additionally having the opportunity to advance in leadership is really important as well.
Rob Johnson (04:33):
So what do you say, Arianna, about that notion about what you're looking for in the workplace?
Arianna Guerra (04:39):
I definitely agree with what Anna said. To me, great leadership, a work-life balance and authenticity is really important, especially for great leadership. I feel that everything trickles down. So, your team can be great but if the team above them and the team above them, and then eventually the boss don't care about their employees then you're eventually going to see that sooner or later. So I always take a look at the great leadership and then work-life balance. I enjoy my work and I enjoy having a career, but I also enjoy having a life. My work is not my life, although I'm very passionate about it. And then authenticity, I think as well. I want transparency in a job. I don't want to feel like I'm being tricked or, I don't want any negative surprises. I want it to be authentic from the start.
Rob Johnson (05:42):
Great answer there. Olivia, what are you looking for?
Olivia Putrim (05:45):
I think both Anna and Ari brought up great points, but something I would also love to add is I think, as I have been working for Eileen and The Harbinger Group this summer, I would love to be working for a company that has a lot of females in leadership roles, just because I think I've benefited from that so much through this internship so far this summer. And I think it brings a new and different perspective than I have had in the past that I am loving and have grown so much already from that. So that is definitely something that I am looking for.
Eileen Rochford (06:21):
Excellent. Well, we'll talk a little bit more about that in a few minutes. That's the topic we want to dig into, why that's important and what that looks like. But according to a recent article, the most common reason women gave for staying with their current employer was that their job fits well with other areas of their life, followed by enjoying the work that they do, and also believing that their job gives them the opportunity to make a difference. Now that's a, that's kind of a broad statement there-- make a difference. It means something different to everyone, right? Some social scientists have termed it "a calling". So I'm curious, the three of you is that type of work, something that's important to you? Is it something you're looking for? And if so, what does that search look like?
Anna Wight (07:06):
So, for me, I think, it's really a tough thing to think about because I think our generation, you know, millennials or gen Z, whatever you want to call it, we're kind of sitting here thinking like, okay, what are we passionate about? And how can we turn that into a career? And I think there's a lot of pressure, especially as women, to just love what you do. You know, like they say, you love what you do, you don't work a day in your life. But we're young and you know, I'm 21. I don't, I still don't know what I'm passionate about. So I think it's, it's really hard coming from that perspective, because I definitely think that it's a huge motivator if every day when you go into the office or nowadays where logging onto our computers from home.
Anna Wight (07:51):
But you know, if you feel like you're making a difference, if you're improving someone's life, I think that's highly motivating. And I think that's really rewarding. But I also, you know, I'm faced with the realities of today's job market and know that maybe my job won't be, you know, won't be my passion project. And I think that there are ways to be fulfilled outside of your nine to five, which is another thing to be thinking about. But I just find that it's an interesting balance between those two, because you have to be fulfilled some way, and maybe it's not by your job. Ideally it would be, but, you know, for me, yeah, that would be great. But I'm not going to hold my breath.
Arianna Guerra (08:34):
I 100% agree. At this point in my life, I've had a lot of jobs, whether that be internships or part-time jobs and while not all of them have been great, I have taken away something from each one of those. And I think my biggest takeaway from all of the work experience that I have is now going forward, I feel confident and I feel empowered to say, will this job allow me to evolve as a professional and as a person? So, like Anna said, not every job that you take, unfortunately, is going to be your passion project. And you might feel like, you know, you need this work right now. And that might be the case, cause the bills still do need to get paid. But I do think that you can take a lot from that job. As she mentioned, there's a lot of things that you can figure out towards your passion.
Arianna Guerra (09:35):
Like, what do I like? What don't I like? And that's something that I've been encouraged to look at through The Harbinger Group. They've always told me, figure out what you like, figure out what you don't like, figure out what you want to become better at, what you want to focus more on. And then you can take that with you in the future. And I feel like that is allowing me to evolve because it's allowing all of us to figure out what our passions are and where we want to go in the future. 'Cause right now we're 21 and we really don't know.
Olivia Putrim (10:10):
I think it's funny because like they've both said, I mean, I can't even figure out what I want to make for breakfast, let alone what I want to do in 10 years. When I was preparing for interviews for potential internships in the fall, my mom was like, well, you know, what, if they ask you, what do you want to do five years from now? And I was like, I, I don't know! I have no idea! I mean, it changes every day. But finding something that is rewarding has always been a motivator for me. I think I've always been such a people pleaser. And I think when you do something right, and, and do a great job at it, I think that's something that keeps me going each day. So ,if it's not in work, in my job, I do think finding something that I love on the outside is going to be a huge factor in my happiness and in my success in life. But obviously, I'm hoping to find that in a job. So I do think calling is very important to me as both Anna and Ari have said.
Rob Johnson (11:15):
Well, I think the other thing, and I heard all of you say it in different ways, and it was that I don't know necessarily what I want to do yet. I don't know what I'm passionate about. And people are always going to ask you questions about, you know, what are you going to do? What's going to be your job? And then when you get a little bit older, you know, are you going to get married? Are you going to have a family? There's always questions people are going to ask you and it's okay to not be ready to answer them. And as it relates to the job, the workforce, if you're not sure what you love to do yet, you don't need to make it up for them. Just say, hey, I don't know yet. That's a perfectly reasonable answer.
Rob Johnson (11:50):
And I'm glad that you all are honest about that because some people will say, oh, I knew I wanted to do this thing when I was 12. Well, that's terrific. Well, you're 21 and if you don't know exactly what's going to make you passionate and what's going to be a career for you at this age, that's still okay. And that's why internships and various other things are so important because you figure out what you like and what you don't like. So, I want to move on to some other research that shows that when women were asked to rate the importance of workplace perks and benefits, flexibility concerns rose to the top of that list. Paid time off was rated as the most important perk. Women also rated paid time off and working from home as higher priorities. Flexibility might be particularly critical when it comes to retaining talented women who also want to raise families. Now, women with children rated having a flexible schedule and being able to work from home as more important compared to women who didn't have children. That's probably no surprise. As young women getting ready to enter the workforce, soes this resonate with you? And if so, how is this something that's a priority for you-- having that flexibility available to you? Anna.
Anna Wight (12:57):
Think it definitely is. You know, you mentioned having that flexibility in order to raise a family and have those really rewarding things out of life. And if I'm being honest, that's not something I'm thinking about right this minute, but it definitely could be a factor down the line. But I think those things resonate with me right now, especially because we're all kind of faced with this, this whole new shift, especially with remote learning or remote work. That's really impacted everyone's mental health. Especially when we were doing COVID lockdown that was really tough on a lot of people. And so I think that having, having that flexibility and having that feeling of empowerment to be able to say, hey, I need a little bit of a me time and I need to do this for me. And it's not that I'm not going to get my work done, but I just need this and being able to say that and not be afraid of your boss being angry, I don't know. But like just being able to say that is really valuable for your mental health. And I think that's something that I'm definitely going to look for out of an employer.
Rob Johnson (14:14):
Arianna, what do you think about the flexibility piece?
Arianna Guerra (14:16):
Yes, I, 100% agree. I think flexibility is something that I'm looking for in a job. I think family or not, we all have lives outside of work and we have lives that we want to live. So it's, I think for me, I've seen my family, which work is very important to them, and my family are factory workers and so they go into work and then they come home going to work, come home and going to work, come home and they just keep working. They'll have the weekends off, maybe. And then all of a sudden, they're retired, and that's about it. And that's always been something that I've seen and that's not, that's a route that I feel like works for them, but it's not a route that I want to go down myself, because I feel like right now, women especially, are having children when they're older and are thinking about, you know, they want to live their lives more before they settled down, have children, have like this big career that everyone's supposed to have. I think that really we right now, I feel like I can speak for all of us, want to live our lives and want to be able to go and be fulfilled in a job but then come home. We don't want to follow this route of like work, come home, work, come home and then that be your entire life.
Rob Johnson (15:53):
That's a really good answer. And you know, back in the day, years ago, it used to be sort of a badge of honor, hey, so-and-so is a workaholic. They just, they put in 60 hours a week, they don't have a hobby, they don't do anything but work, work, work. And when it comes to the potential burnout factor, the fact that you all are as young as you are, and you understand that this is a marathon and not a sprint, I think is crucial. So that's some really great insight. Olivia, what do you say about the whole flexibility part?
Olivia Putrim (16:23):
So as Anna mentioned, I think mental health has been a serious thing that I've been considering this past year, especially having to do school from my apartment all year. I think I missed grabbing a coffee on my way to class, you know, sitting in a lecture hall with 400 people, even if I wasn't fully paying attention to the professor the whole time, but it's just things like that, that I miss. So I think for me, I definitely am looking for an in-person, you know, take the train to work, whatever it is, situation-- even a nine to five, wouldn't be terrible for me. I think I'm just so itching to get, and be around people. However, I think when it does get to the point in my life, when I start thinking about having kids or settling down, I think flexibility is going to be huge because I've seen both my parents go through it and not being able to, sometimes, be around all the time when we were younger. And I think, we've even had talks about it now, my mom was like, it's so funny because when I wasn't around, I hated the job I was doing, I absolutely hated it. And now that she's doing something completely different and is able to be present in the huge parts in her kids' lives, I think that's huge. And flexibility is definitely something I'm looking for.
Eileen Rochford (17:40):
That's really good to know. And very validating. I'm pleased that you're all factoring that into your future outlook. I can say from experience having the flexibility while my two children were growing up made a massive difference in just my overall life happiness. The feeling of not being present, when I say being present, I just mean mentally able to do dedicate time, thought and energy appropriately to my kids, as much as I do my job, the feeling of not being able to do that is I think extraordinarily detrimental to parents, male or female, but I believe it's even more detrimental to mothers. That's just my experience. Well, let's move in a different direction. I want to talk about, we know that I think we all do that women want real leadership opportunities, not just being able to sit at a decision-making table, but did you know that women are more likely to get what's called glass cliff assignments?
Eileen Rochford (18:50):
This is a phrase I've not heard before. So let's pause and talk about it for a second. So these are leadership opportunities that are high stakes, can be kind of precarious in nature and have a high likelihood of failure, most often because they have poor support structures and lower budgets. That's pretty weird, right? I read this or I've read that this the assignment or the existence of these glass cliff type of projects can be a repercussion or a result of implicit bias. And we're talking a lot about implicit bias these days and it's detrimental, but seemingly unintentional impact in all sorts of areas. None the less, I'm still shocked that projects or this situation arises in today's workplace. Apparently it does. Other recent research validates that these are going on at a higher rate than most people are aware. So it's another thing for female professionals to have to watch out for not only for themselves.
Eileen Rochford (19:56):
So I'm glad we're raising it here because I want people to be aware of this and to have their radar up, but also for their female coworkers, so that if we're seeing colleagues who are women being put in situations like that, that we also can be aware and activists for change in that regard. So it's not surprising to me that many women said that the single most thing organizations can do to attract and retain talented women is admonished sexism and deliver on gender parody across the board. So everything-- pay, experiences that they have, access to opportunities to be successful. So, Anna, Arianna, Olivia, hearing this, do these considerations weigh on you when you're deciding where you want to work? And if so, tell us about how.
Anna Wight (20:50):
I mean, it's just really shocking to me that whether unintentionally or intentionally this would be happening in, and even outside of that situation it's cruel. And I just don't understand it. And it's really discouraging. And I hate that that's something that I'm going to have to think about when someone assigns me a project. Are they setting me up here to fail? Do they care about me succeeding or am I taking this all into my own hands? And, when I think about that, it's really about, it turns into being your own best advocate. So you have to advocate for yourself and if you don't have the tools you need to succeed, then how am I going to go get them? You know and how am I going to set myself up to succeed if no one else wants to help me with that?
Anna Wight (21:42):
And so that's tough. And I think, by setting that example and by going to your boss and saying, well, these are the tools I need. Can you give them to me? And you're setting the example for the next woman and you're setting the example for how a project should be assigned next time. And I think that's really valuable, but that's also something that you have to be hyper aware of too. So I think, I don't know. I just, I hate that and it really rubs me the wrong way, but I think that, you know if we're all aware and we're all our own best advocates, there's a way to still succeed in the face of that.
Arianna Guerra (22:26):
Definitely being an advocate is something that I believe women have to learn more about, more than anyone. Because as women, most of us are taught as we're growing up, you know, you're supposed to be polite. You're supposed to not say anything. If you do something wrong, if you bump into someone you say, I'm sorry, you keep your head down, things like that. And I've learned to throw that out of the window, 'cause that's a bunch of crap. I have learned from personal experiences, because I've been in a lot of situations in the classroom and different jobs and internships that I've had, that I've experienced a lot of sexism, kind of that, you you think that you can do it better than a man then go ahead and do it. And really I'm just set up for failure. And everyone kind of just shuns me and I just have to do everything on my own.
Arianna Guerra (23:22):
Unfortunately I learned the hard way and I think most women do figure that out the hard way. I think that's when the microaggressions come in and then the gaslighting comes in. I think that's something to think about also with sexism. It doesn't necessarily have to be in your face. I think all discrimination, it doesn't necessarily have to be in your face. It can be something small. And then I would encourage people who, first of all, you don't know a lot about microaggressions, please read up on it. 'Cause it's very important to understand. Because if a coworker comes to you and says, you know, I really don't feel comfortable with this or this made me, you know, so-and-so said this and it just didn't run me the right way. I think a lot of people are really likely to say, well, I don't think they meant that that way, or I don't think blah, blah.
Arianna Guerra (24:17):
And you're not validating their experiences. And I think that's something that I've experienced the most, where they say, you know, it's not sexism, it's not racism, that's just how they are. And I'm like, no, it's actually a microaggression and you right now are actually telling me to shut up and just keep working. So, I would really encourage, CEOs, bosses leaders, in any industry that you're in listening to this podcast right now, read up on discrimination policies and protocols what to do if a coworker comes to you with that. And I think that's really important with the chain and knowing, you know, HR, who to go to things like that. 'Cause that's something that I've experienced a lot.
Olivia Putrim (25:07):
I think you both touched on virtually everything I could have said, but the last thing I do want to mention is that I think, and Eileen's been very encouraging in this sense, she's told us right from the get-go, you're here for a reason, you are here because I know you can do this job and because I know you're going to be able to do it well. You might not be able to do it right the first time, but you're going to get it done and you're going to learn along the way. So, I also would encourage anyone who's listening to just-- you don't understand how important it is to give that little sense of, we recognize that you're doing this, we recognize that you're trying, because I think so many people have been in the positions where they feel they're going to fail and that's so tough. It's so tough. So, you know, recognizing that it's a hard project or a hard day or something, everyone's been there. So I just think, at the end of the day, yes, you're here for a reason. Yes, you are going to get it done, you've always been able to get it done, but I just think taking the time to give some words of encouragement is also really great because like I said, everyone has been in these positions where they felt super discouraged before.
Rob Johnson (26:30):
That's some really good input from all of you. And Arianna, when you talked about microaggressions and hoping that CEOs take it seriously, that's really part and parcel. That's one of the key components of DEI initiatives and training in various corporations. Now that, I didn't mean it that way or you're too sensitive or this or that. That's not the right answer anymore. The right answer is, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have said it or I wasn't aware of that and you're bringing it to their attention. So things like that are very important. And as it relates to your glass cliff, you're all talking about being set up to fail because of sexism and other things, which is completely valid, but there's also the truth that sometimes people will set you up to do a project or to run something. And they're just not very good at their jobs.
Rob Johnson (27:22):
And so they may have not, it may not be intentional. It may be because they just haven't figured out how to give you the proper resources. And I loved what you all were saying about making sure you have to go out there and get those resources because whether the glass cliff thing is intentional and they're wanting you to fail or whether it's unintentional and they just aren't setting you up to succeed because of their shortcomings, the result is you still have to overcome those shortcomings. So I think you all made some really fine points on that particular subject matter. Now, I know Eileen is not going to ask you all this question because you're working for her this summer, and you touched on it a little bit, each of you, a little bit earlier, but I want to dig in a little deeper. What does it mean to work for a CEO who's a woman, a strong woman? And a woman that shows you, gives you the roadmap and then sticks to the roadmap. And what's the most important takeaway you've had from that experience? Olivia, let's start with you.
Olivia Putrim (28:21):
Well, as I mentioned earlier, when I said that working for women in the future, when I'm looking for jobs, that's going to be really important, but Eileen is just so awesome and inspirational. She is so well-spoken, she has so many connections, she knows so much about everything. Just even listening on super little, just checking in meetings, I just keep learning from her each day. And, I think working for her has just been, I mean, I'm like, I just want to be you in the future. I want to get to that point in the future and I want to work as hard as you did and make all these connections and do all these great things. And I just think, at the end of the day, it's just so inspirational to work for someone like her, because I mean, it just is different than working for a CEO who's a man. I don't know how else to put it in words, it's just different. But she's great. She, being a mom, being a wife, like everything, she's great. And so I definitely am looking for that in the future. And I mean, I hope I can just be like that someday. So, it's been great. (Johnson) Anna, what do you think that?
Anna Wight (29:42):
So, for me, you know, I've always grown up around really strong women. I've always had really good female role models and even going back, my mother was a really successful attorney in Chicago and she always taught me certain things about what it meant to be a woman in today's world. And then I went to an all female boarding school and I was surrounded by a lot, again, a lot of powerful young women and a lot of my teachers were women and our head of school was a woman. And I think that has all really shaped me into the kind of person who really feeds off of female energy. And I think that's really important, especiall in this context, I think that working with two other female interns and having a female CEO is really just, it's an asset and it's a strength and it has really impacted this whole experience to the point where I don't think I want any other situation going forward. Because it's just feels like when I'm talking to Eileen and there's just kind of this, unspoken thing, you know, an unspoken understanding of, okay, well, I don't know this right now, but you're going to be fine.
Anna Wight (31:14):
You're going to figure it out, you know, it's okay. And she knows how to approach the situation where it's empowering and it's not discouraging that I don't know the answer to the question. And I think that's a tool that I will take with me everywhere I go. And I hope that everyone else does too. That's something that everyone should learn. And I don't know, I just think that you don't really realize how much your upbringing and your background shapes you until you're in that moment. And you see, oh, well, this is why this is working so well for me, because I grew up this way. And I was taught to respect powerful women and emulate them. And so I just think it's been a really valuable experience working for Eileen.
Rob Johnson (32:00):
And you make a good point too, Anna, about not knowing the answer sometimes it's okay to tell somebody, let me get the answer for you, or I don't know, or whatever the case may be, because everybody is so focused sometimes on being perfect that they forget that it's okay not to always know the answer. So, what do you think about this, Arianna?
Arianna Guerra (32:22):
Definitely. I definitely agree with both of the girls on that. My experience with The Harbinger Group and Eileen specifically is that they don't just talk the talk, they walk the walk. They care about our projects. They want us to get our projects done in a timely manner, but she's also always checking in and the whole team too, checking in, what did you learn from this project? Do you need any more support? Do you feel like this is going to help you in the future? And if the answer to any of that is no, then they'll set you up with, well, here is this workshop, this virtual webinar that you can watch. It's going to tell you how to learn more about this project and how to do it. Or they give us the resources that we need to succeed.
Arianna Guerra (33:18):
It's not just about completing the project and that I feel like really sets us up for success. And for me, this has been a really rewarding and eye-opening experience because my experience with work has always been, I've always felt like I was not wanted to succeed by the leadership in most of my jobs. So she showed me really professionalism doesn't have to be harsh and I don't have to be working like I want to prove this person wrong. Or I want to do this to show them I'm good at it and things like that. So actually it's been a really rewarding experience and really cool to feel like I'm being supported. And to just feel that attention to detail, not only in our projects, but us in our careers and us as people and young women as well.
Eileen Rochford (34:17):
Wow. Oh my gosh, you guys, I just had no idea you were taking so much away from the things I say and do, but I'm delighted to hear that you are. And I'm honored to work with you and I really appreciate all your contributions. And like you've said, you're awesome. And even if you don't have the answers, I know you have the skills to go and figure out what you need to figure out to be able to do great work. So, thanks. That's awesome for me to know, I appreciate everything you said. We touched on something related to diversity, equity and inclusion just a little bit earlier in our conversation. And I really want to give you the opportunity to tell us about does a company's, or having, a DEI, a documented DEI policy, or maybe not having one, directly impact you when you're going to be looking for your first job and evaluating your first employer? Where is that, is that even on your radar screens? Tell us about that. Yes? No? Why? All that.
Arianna Guerra (35:30):
Absolutely. I think that's one of the first things that I look at. I look at how their policy is written and then in interviews I ask about it, see if it's something that everybody knows about. 'Cause just because they have the policy, doesn't mean that a lot of people read it and things like that. So I really want to engage and see how the employer or the interviewer, what they know about their own DEI policy. But specifically I look at intersectionality and how that fits in and how that works. I, myself, am a black woman, I'm a Mexican woman. So when I go into spaces, I want to feel like I'm seen, like I'm heard. I don't want to be in a space where I'm, kind of, cast to the side. And then that's where I don't see that part of you or I don't see color, or that's not really a big deal.
Arianna Guerra (36:35):
You know, that's the gaslighting that we talked about earlier. That's the microaggression and that's where things begin to build. So I think not only that, but I look at their teams. Eileen, you said earlier, it's not enough to have just a seat at the table. I want to see women speaking. I want to see them making decisions. I want to see black women making decisions. I want to see Latin X people making decisions. That really is important to me, and just so many other people groups, I don't want to be somewhere where I've been so many times before. I live in Ohio. So you would expect this. I'm usually one of the only black women in the room. And, really probably the only one in most of the rooms that I walk into. And I think intersectionality looking at that and looking at the teams is very important because I've been in positions where people have said, yes, we have this much percentage of black employees and they love it here. And then you look deeper and it's black men. Or they say we have this percentage of women that work here. And then you look and it's white women. So I just want to make sure that my experience is being seen and that I, as a person am being heard. That makes the experience of working somewhere so much better.
Anna Wight (38:06):
So it never occurred to me to look at a company's DEI policy before applying for a job. And that's after, Ari sharing that really insightful information, I think that I'm kicking myself in the head because, you know, why didn't I think of that? And I also think it's important to take a stand and say, well, then I'm not going to come work for you. If you're not going to have that document a DEI policy and educate your employers on it and really hold yourself to that standard. Because then we're just perpetuating a culture of making it okay. And it's not okay. And we all know that, that doesn't need to be said, that's not shocking anymore that it's not okay.
Anna Wight (39:06):
And so I think there's a lot. I know I still have a lot to learn, but I can also set the example and I can pay it forward to the women who are going to enter the workforce 10 years from now, or even next year even, and I don't know, I just, I think that it's one of those things where until you see it and until you have that at the forefront of your mind and, 'cause we're all just trying to find a job, but then there's more to it. And I think that's a lot of what this podcast is uncovered in general is that for women, there's a lot more to it then just getting the job. And that's absolutely a factor, absolutely a factor.
Olivia Putrim (39:54):
I honestly have nothing else to add. You guys said exactly what what's obvious. And yes, DEI policy is an absolute must.
Rob Johnson (40:05):
Anna, you were talking about, I wish I had thought about that before, but remember your interns and remember you're interning for Eileen, so it's all good on that front. But as you move forward, you now are armed with that information and knowing that it's a priority and knowing that it's important, to not only, as Arianna said, you know, hey, we have this policy in place, but to actually be adhering to it and making sure that it is something that everybody buys into. So yeah, there has to be more than just words. There has to be action behind those words. And I think you all understand that pretty well. So here's a question for you. If you could talk to CEOs out there, which is kind of what we're doing today on the podcast, is there one thing you would like to see in the workplace that would help nurture you and give you confidence? What is the one thing you would like to see from a support level, from the higher ups, that would help you thrive in a work environment? Let's start with you, Arianna.
Arianna Guerra (41:01):
Yeah, I think there's a lot that I would like to see, but I'll start with empathy, and just empathy for human beings. Empathy for your employers, I think is the biggest one that I want CEOs to take away from this conversation. I've always been taught and I've always seen that you should pay attention to how people treat people who they feel like they need and people who feel like they don't need. I think whoever works in your company and just any human being that you come across, have empathy and be kind and be understanding and be willing to communicate and not just dismiss them because I've seen people say so-and-so is really great. They're really nice to me, but I saw them out and they weren't nice to the workers. They weren't nice to people on the street. In fact, they made them feel smaller and less then. So I've always been taught. My dad always told me, I don't care who you are. You're not talking to me any type of way. That's just not going to happen, no matter what our roles are. And I in return will, I just will show you respect and you will show me respect no matter what we mean to each other, if we really mean anything to each other. So that's one big thing that I would like most CEOs to take away from this.
Rob Johnson (42:36):
You've been raised very well, Arianna as have all of you, honestly. Olivia, what do you think about that? What do you think about the thing that really helps you get a little wind beneath your wings as you go work somewhere?
Olivia Putrim (42:50):
I think empathy, obviously, is a huge factor, but I think also just checking in once in a while, like, hey, I'm really busy because I'm the CEO, but, how are you doing? Whats up? How's your progress on this? What's going on? Do you have any feedback for me? Do you have any feedback for the company? Just anything to make my opinion feel valued and important because at the end of the day, we're all working towards the same goal and we all want to succeed and we all want to do well and make a name for ourselves. But, I just think taking that time even once a week, once every two weeks, just to be like, hey, I remember you, I'm checking in. How are you? I think that's huge. At least for me.
Rob Johnson (43:35):
See the bar that Eileen set? Eileen does it. Now that's something that everybody wants to see. (Putrim) The bar is set so high! (Johnson) And it's something you should want to see, though, in all fairness, right? But that's a great thing that Eileen has done. And now you all, I'm not going to say you expect it, but it would be something that would make it a value add. What about you, Anna?
Anna Wight (43:55):
I think Olivia touched on this earlier in the podcast, but receiving that validation when you've succeeded is really important. And when you've done a good job, it's important to know that you've done a good job. I got a message from a team member last week and message was like you rock, thank you so much for putting so much time and energy into this. And it made my day, it made me feel so good about the work that I had done and had spent so much time on. But also, on the other hand of that, is that knowing when you haven't succeeded and being given the feedback in order to do better next time. And I think constructive criticism is really, really valuable and it's not something that everyone gets to receive in a professional setting.
Anna Wight (44:48):
And not a lot of people can take the time to sit there and go through with you what you did wrong on this and how to make it better. And I think that is so extremely valuable, especially to emerging professionals and women, because we're always striving to do better. There's always this pressure to be perfect. And I think for me personally, that translates into my work as well. I want to hand in a perfect deliverable and that's not always possible, but going back to my original point, knowing when you've succeeded and having that positive feedback is really empowering and really motivating and I think that if every CEO could, or not every CEO, but whoever is under you, whoever is going over your work and you could take the time to say, thank you so much, this was really great, that makes your employee feel amazing.
Eileen Rochford (45:47):
That is some terrific guidance from all three of you. Very, very valuable. Boy, we're going to talk more about that in the future sessions together. I'm super excited about that. As we continue on through our discussion, I think now's a good time for us to transition over, to sharing some of the best practice and insights that we promised our listeners and you guys, and I'm happy to kick it off. Rob, I'm going to share a couple of things that women entering the workforce can do as they work on landing their first job and also as they advance in their careers. So there are two tips that I'd like to share. And the first is when, this was regarding landing the first job. So make sure to learn everything you can about a company's culture and values.
Eileen Rochford (46:42):
That's something that we haven't touched on yet in our discussion today. But most companies, most organizations have at least identified their organizational values. So make sure you dig into those and learn all that you can before you explore any employment with them. Don't waste your time and your talent on an organization that is not committed to advancing women, frankly. And I can say this because I know you, the three of you so well, but I believe this to be true of every woman. They don't deserve you and you won't be valued there if they're not committed to advancing women. So find the companies that will commit to your development and your advancement. There are so many of them out there, there are more and more every day. So shrink your pool to those that believe in you as much as you do.
Eileen Rochford (47:37):
And I know, I know you're worth it. So be a great researcher and a critical thinker as you conduct your job, search and bear all of that in mind. I think you're going to be much more successful and frankly much happier and healthier as a result. So that's my advice for the job search. Now let's talk about advancement. My one advancement tip, success tip, once you have a job, right. We talked a little bit about this, but I'm going to reinforce it. Advocate for yourself and for your female colleagues. Okay? Here's the thing. Nobody else can see sexism and bias as clearly as you can, as clearly as we can. So when you see it, stand up for change in a very positive and a productive way. And I don't mean function as a watchdog, that's not helpful. But function as a catalyst. Flag what you see, provide ideas for new ways of doing things that serve the goals of the company, while you crush the bad behaviors that just frankly need to stop. So, by doing this, you're not just going to help yourself. You'll help all the women who come after you. And, I say this to you guys all the time. That's how we rise, right? So those are my two tips.
Rob Johnson (48:56):
Those are some really good tips, Eileen. And I would just add a couple of more general things as it relates to young people, young women, entering the workforce. I really want to dovetail off of the advocating for yourself because it's okay to advocate for yourself. It's okay to say, here's what I want. It's okay to say that's okay or that's not okay. Because the way the C-suite works in this day and age, it's not just good enough to say what's your key goal CEO? And it used to be shareholder value. That means just making money. And now the right answer is a litany of things. One of them is DEI. One of them is sensitivity to younger people, to the generational differences, to the gender diversity that you need to strive for as a company.
Rob Johnson (49:50):
So I really think that's important. And I would also say that you need to, it's okay to not have every answer. I'm sure you look at job boards and say, oh gosh, they want this experience. They want that they want this or that. We were looking for somebody young. Sometimes the translation also for being young is cheap because they can pay less to hire you because you don't have as much experience, but it's okay not to know things. It's okay to, as I said earlier, to be 21 and to not have a clear idea of what you want to do yet. And I would just tell you all that, it's so important to just wherever your compass is leading you, just keep going there. And your compass, isn't going to lead you all in the same direction. And that's okay.
Rob Johnson (50:34):
And I just think that that's really important too, because when you're in your twenties, you're trying to figure out who you are. You're trying to figure out who am I going to become? And sometimes it gets a little daunting and sometimes you might change. I remember being in my twenties and, I don't want to say I changed personalities, but one year I would focus on this or one year I would focus on that, whether it was professional or personal. And so you don't always know who you are when you're 22 or 23 and that's okay. And so those would be just a couple of little things that I would like to add to what Eileen was talking about.
Eileen Rochford (51:06):
Also great advice. Thank you! Oh boy, I hope a lot of young folks, especially young women tune in and listen to that great insight and guidance. So as we wrap things up I just want to ask our guests, is there anything that you didn't have an opportunity to say or share that you'd like to add? Any final thoughts?
Anna Wight (51:32):
I just want to say thank you for having us. This has been a really fun discussion we've all had. And I think I've personally learned a lot. I hope all the listeners learn a lot and really take to heart what we've said, because I personally have been very open and honest and I hope that that it's taken seriously by all the CEOs out there.
Arianna Guerra (51:55):
Yes. I'd like to say thank you as well. We, as an intern class really appreciate this and really appreciate the ability to share stories and use our voices, especially on this huge platform. So I really hope anyone tuning in understands life is a learning process. Professionalism is learning process. I think we've all learned a lot today and I look forward to learning even more in the future.
Olivia Putrim (52:28):
Thank you, Rob and Eileen. I'm so grateful for both of you. You guys are the best. And to Ari and Anna, you guys are awesome. And I learn something from both of you each day. Love you guys!
Rob Johnson (52:38):
Well, listen, you guys are terrific. And I think it's pretty impressive that three of The Harbinger Group interns are on sharing their stories today and the depth and the breadth of the discussion I thought was terrific. And I too hope that whoever's listening to this, whether it be other young people, whether it be people in the C-suite, that they will embrace this and they will understand that this is what's coming. This is, if you want to hire and retain talented dynamic people, these are the things you're going to have to think about. So we just can't thank you enough. Olivia Putrim, Arianna Guerra, and Anna Wight for this wonderful, insightful discussion. And thanks to all of you out there who tuned in today to take part in this, to listen to this discussion. I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. We want to thank you for joining us for another episode of, Can You Hear Me?
Eileen Rochford (53:32):
And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of The Harbinger Group. Thanks for being with us and we hope you'll join us on our next episode. Take care.