The best way to stand out in the business world is by building a personal brand attached to your professional brand, in other words, what you do for a living. If you have not created a personal or professional brand, you risk getting left behind or not ascending to the heights you had imagined. In this episode of “Can You Hear Me?” co-hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford discuss this with communications expert Kraig Kann of the Kann Advisory Group.
Special Guest: Kraig Kann
Kann Advisory Group: https://kannadvisory.com/
Kraig Kann - "Can You Get Our Attention?": https://www.amazon.com/Can-You-Get-Our-Attention/dp/1951556518#:~:text=With%20%E2%80%9CCan%20You%20Get%20Our,he%20has%20gained%20through%20the
Twitter (Kann Advisory): https://twitter.com/kannadvisory
Twitter (personal): https://twitter.com/KraigKann
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kraigkann/
Rob Johnson [00:00:39] Hello again, everyone, and welcome to another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications.
Eileen Rochford [00:00:46] And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm The Harbinger Group. So, as a listener of this podcast, you know that we spend more than a little time talking about branding for CEOs and for executives. But today, we want to expand that. And we're going to talk about the importance of a personal and professional brand for any business person out there who's trying to lead their company or anyone who's maybe realizing that this kind of branding is essential to career development.
Rob Johnson [00:01:17] And to do this, we're going to welcome special guest to Can You Hear Me? Kraig Kann! Runs his namesake organization, Kann Advisory Group. His bio is extensive, but we'll just highlight a few of the finer points. Kraig is a former TV anchor like myself, who spent many years at the Golf Channel. Before starting his firm, he became chief communications officer at the Ladies Professional Golf Association, the LPGA. Kraig is a master in marketing and communications consulting. He is a sought after public speaker, conducting numerous workshops all over the country. He hosts a podcast and also has a weekly Sirius XM radio program connected with Kraig Kann. And he even found time to write a book in early 2021 titled "Can You Get Our Attention?" We should also mention that Kraig was raised in the Chicago area and went to the University of Missouri undergrad and is a devoted White Sox fan. Kraig Kann, welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining us.
Kraig Kann [00:02:15] Eileen, Rob, thank you very much. Devoted White Sox fan, yes, I say it's America's team, although it hasn't been America's team's year thus far. But what a pleasure to join both of you. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.
Eileen Rochford [00:02:29] Thank you. And it's great to meet you. I know you guys have a connection already but I'm delighted to make your acquaintance. And thanks for being with us. It's a pleasure and an honor to have you on our show today.
Kraig Kann [00:02:40] Yeah, thank you.
Eileen Rochford [00:02:42] So you have this extraordinarily impressive and lengthy background in communications and journalism, but I really want to zero in on your book because it's so new. And first of all, I just love the twist on the title with your last name. It's just so cute.
Kraig Kann [00:03:01] Just spelled a little differently, you know?
Eileen Rochford [00:03:03] Of course, of course. Yeah, I mean, I would hope so, right? But can we start with just the premise of the book, but also why you wanted to write it? Why did you?
Kraig Kann [00:03:16] Good question. Three reasons. When I was younger, I made a a goal for myself. And when I say younger, I'm talking probably 15 years old. I was at a leadership camp, believe it or not. And among the things I suggested that I wanted to do by the age of 50 was write a book. And I put that in this little box. And so I've had it for quite a long time now. It didn't come out by the time I hit 50. So that gives you a little reach into my actual age. Thankfully, Rob didn't say what year I graduated from the University of Missouri. But so number one is accomplishing that lifelong goal. I always wanted to write a book and I'll tell you how I came about doing it in a second, because I think it's somewhat interesting and a lot of people are intimidated by the process, and I actually had a little bit of a game plan. The second reason that I wrote the book was really just to share my experiences, my preachings, my teachings, all of that, and it ties to my leadership communication based workshops, the Elevate Workshop, my webinar series, which is titled "A Brand New You" under Elevate as well, my keynotes, everything. So all that I talk about with communications, branding, storytelling and the importance of all that tying together. And the third reason was simply to share my story in hopes that not just successes but failures can help other people. I firmly believe that career paths are not a straight line. They take pivots, multiple pivots, and I've done that in my career, and I think there's great value in that as well. And I think a lot of people, when they hit 40 or 50 or whatever it might be, they don't know what necessarily their next is or where their talents lie until there's a 911 call that they need a job, they've been furloughed, let go, whatever else. So it came out in 2021. A funny story about it is the publisher that I ultimately chose to help me with the project said, "What's the what's the title of the book?" I said, "It's a great title." She goes, "You don't have a title yet?" I said, "Yes, I do. I do have a title. It's going to be called-" she goes, "I don't want to hear it." I said, "No, no, this title's good. It's called "Broadcasting Your Story." And it was going to tie into broadcasting and all that." She goes, "No, it's not. That won't be the title of the book." I said, How do you know that? That's a good title?" She said, "Just write the book. You'll end up changing the name of the book." And I didn't believe her. And I wrote the book, which took me well over a year. And ultimately I called her back and she said, "How's everything done? You got the manuscript?" I said, "Yep, it's coming to you right now." And she said, "What's title of the book?" I said, "It's called Can You Get Our Attention?" And so there you go. She was right. And that's how it all happened. It's crazy and very surreal, by the way, when the box of books shows up on your front porch and you've done this project for a long time, you've written it and you really like it. You know, when you're writing, all that you think is "Is anybody really going to care about this?" And then you have to proofread it not once, not twice, but, you know, ten, 20, 30 times. By the time you've proofread it, you don't even like the book anymore. And then it shows up on your porch and it's surreal. You open the box, and there it is for you. And then it goes on Amazon. And the rest has been history for me. You know, top 25 Amazon bestseller. It won best new book in the New York, San Francisco, and Paris Book Festival's top five in the International Book Awards. I mean, a lot of things have happened and really it just helps me with my speaking engagements.
Eileen Rochford [00:06:48] That's so awesome.
Rob Johnson [00:06:49] And it is a wonderful read because there's so much pertinent information that you can give people. But there's also so many anecdotes related to the old TV days or the Golf Channel or various people you came across in the Golf Channel and golfers over the years. So it's really kind of a fascinating read.
Kraig Kann [00:07:14] And here's the thing. I'll tell this story, Eileen, if you're interested. You don't have to by the way.
Eileen Rochford [00:07:19] Of course!
Kraig Kann [00:07:20] But, I had somebody call me recently and they're like, I really want to do a book, and I'm talking to a ghostwriter. And I said, "You know what?" Authenticity is really important. I don't know that I would ever necessarily want to do that, but a lot of people do. And one of my best friends wrote his that way. And that's fine. Mine's completely me. I wrote the whole thing and here's what happened. So, the book came out in 2021. When I was at the Golf Channel back in 2009, at the time there was a rain delay and we had some extra time in the studio. And I went "You know, I got to do something else, I just need something else." And there's more to it than that. But I decided I was going to start a blog. And so what I did was I focused on all the things that I'm an alleged expert in, which is, you know, communications, branding, media coaching, presentation skills training, you know, strategic communications- all these different topics. And so what I did was every blog post was tied to those topics specifically, and I did it that way so that at the end, every potential blog post could be a chapter in a potential book. In other words, I would already have the content done. I might have to tweak it a little bit, but I already had the real heavy, if you will, done. So I'd written 150 or so blog posts. And as I wrote the book, I pulled a lot of that into those chapters, which Rob knows about because he's read it, you know, about the communications, about the media coaching, about the presentation skills, social media and all that. And that's what I would tell people. Anybody can do it. You need a passion. You need an expertize. You need something that you believe in and that you can not just tell, but sell. And you can write a book. You can get it done.
Rob Johnson [00:09:06] You know, it's funny, I wrote a book six or seven years ago. It was a children's book, it was very short. And I mean, the chapters were a couple of pages long. It's so different to write something like this than it was to write that. That was a very passionate thing for me because I was trying to raise concussion awareness in young people, you know. So, there was a mission there, but it was I mean, it was like a 75 page book. I mean, it wasn't "War and Peace." But to your point about some of these things that you go through in terms of getting the box of books and then proofreading it a million times and all that kind of stuff, it's like by the time you're like, "okay, I know every inch of this thing" and you just hope that people are going- I did not have an Amazon bestseller, but, you know, I felt like it was an important kind of, you know, labor of love. But it is quite a project.
Rob Johnson [00:09:54] It is. It is a project. And, you know, it took me a year to write it or so life gets in the way sometimes. You have to be diligent in spending the time to do it and then the proofreading and then any photos you put in there, you have to get approval. Testimonials by companies that I've worked with and I could go through Fortune 500 companies that are listed in there. And they're either CEOs, presidents, you know, VP's of communications, whatever, all the people that wrote that had to get approval from their company. So, it is quite a project. But I will tell you, you know, I've done a lot of things. I'm very proud of the book. It's maybe my greatest achievement. It's a bit of a legacy. It's something that I'm passionate about. And when I do my keynotes, my workshops, my webinars, I refer back to it or I pull from that and all the quotes and the different sayings, if you will, my thought process, thought leadership, if you will, is in my slide content or whatever I deliver in a room full of 800,000 or 20 in a workshop.
Rob Johnson [00:11:02] All right. Let's get to the branding piece here. Because this is very important and I hope people really get a lot out of this. So let's start with a pretty basic premise here, Kraig, which is why do you think it's so essential for business people out there, whether they be leaders high up in their business or maybe they're mid managers or people that want to ascend up the ranks to lean into building their personal and professional brands and how they're related.
Kraig Kann [00:11:31] I'll start with this. What you do for a living is very important. Why you do what you do, and most importantly, how you do what you do differently than others that, separates you from others within your organization or your industry is very important. Today I speak on college campuses and I speak to executives and groups of teams, if you will, and they'll always sit by somebody. Let's just use a college campus. It could be a college football team. It could be a room full of seniors in business or communication. They sit next to their friends. And I always say, you're in your comfort zone. What you don't realize yet is that the person sitting to your right or to your left is looking for the same job you are. So what separates you? How do you stand out? How do you get noticed? How are you different? Now there will be some CEOs or presidents of organizations who get a little edgy and a little uncomfortable when they hear that somebody in the office or in their organization is building a professional brand or they're promoting themselves on social media. Okay. First off, you don't go on social media to be known. You should go on social media to be knowable. And there's a difference. And the other part of that is you need to provide value. And each and every one of us has value. We all have an inner genius. We all have something that we can share. So a CEO who doesn't want their people to build a brand and become better to me is missing the mark, because ultimately you want people who leave their mark on the organization and are recruitable potentially to somebody else, which means they've made a big, big impact on your organization. So all I would say is, if you walk into this workshop today or you walked into this keynote today and you don't think you have a personal or professional brand, you've already cut your legs out from underneath you because you have one. It's there whether you want it or not. Now, what you do with it is completely up to you.
Eileen Rochford [00:13:30] Just a quick follow up, because I love that statement. You don't post on social media to be knowable. Tell us what you mean by “knowable” and maybe for our listeners' benefit because I'm intrigued. I think that's awesome.
Kraig Kann [00:13:42] Well, I'll put it this way. If you follow me on Twitter at Kraig Kann or Instagram or whatever else LinkedIn, I think the important thing is not to just put yourself out there, it's to provide value to others and to provide content that is not just readable but shareable. So I always believe that your brand is not what happens when you're in a room. Your brand is what happens when you leave the room. By that I mean what impact have you left, what will people say about what you did? What will people tell others about what you've said? And do you have a message? Do you have a superpower, if you will, that you've just, you know, shared with other people? That becomes something that other people will talk about. And at the end of the day, you know, that's why my book says "Can You Get Our Attention?" There are so many messages out there per day. So many marketing messages. Everybody, Eileen is talking- talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. How many people actually have something to say and how many people actually are saying something that is worthy of being shared to others? And ultimately, that's the goal. We've got to find a way to stand out amidst the crowd. And I go back to, real quickly, you know, if all of a sudden you are without a job or something happens and you haven't worked to build this superpower, if you will, or what you stand for, what you stand out with, you know, kind of your your strength within the organization. Then all of the sudden, in trying to find a job, you don't know what your story is. You don't know what your strength is, and you don't know where you can go. And you've got to actually have more tools in your toolbox than just one.
Eileen Rochford [00:15:26] Oh, excellent. Okay. So let's get into some specifics then. My first question has to do with you describing the most effective ways to break through the clutter to get noticed. And by doing so, what you see as the outcomes, you know, how will it enhance your image and your brand?
Kraig Kann [00:15:47] Okay, well, first off, Rob knows this. It's not what you say to people. It's how you make people feel. Okay, that's really important. All right, we can all write down cool stuff and everybody can write down their strengths and what they believe their value is and all that. It's funny, I bring somebody up at the beginning of every one of my workshops and I put them in front of everybody or a keynote. And there's a lot of people in the room and I say, "Okay, here's what I want you to do. I want you to tell everybody in this room who you are. And why should we care?" And you should see what happens when that comes to them. They immediately clench up, they get nervous, they start sweating, they do whatever. And I do it for a couple of reasons. Number one, most people haven't thought about what their story is. They don't know what their professional value is. And if called upon, they can't share it quickly. So again, we're talking about somebody's brand. And by the way, the average attention span of a human being is 8 seconds. So, you don't have a lot of time to get people's attention. So, you need to be able to do that, all right? So, that's the first reason; to emphasize the importance of knowing your story and the value that you bring. The second reason that I do it is because the minute I bring you up, Eileen, everybody else in the room is on the edge of their seat, sitting up straight because they think, "Oh, my gosh, he's bringing me up next." And they start thinking about what their story is, what their answer is going to be. Now, you know what I've got? I've got everybody's attention. Thus the title of the book. Okay, so you just asked me to break through the clutter; be an expert. That's really important. Be a thought leader. Now people say, what does that mean? Well, again, I could come up with the different things that I've talked about: communications, strategic communications, presentation skills, you know, social media, brand building, all of that stuff. Years ago I had a vacation and I was sitting on the beach and I carried this through for about, I don't know, two or three years. I had a little black book, and in it I wrote 140 characters, by the way, which is what Twitter was. All my thoughts on all these different topics. These became my own quotes. These, Rob, are what you read in the book. They're in there at each chapter, and they're a part of all my talks. I say that because those are my thought leadership quotes or feelings or whatever. So you need to be a thought leader. Now, you talked about social media and putting stuff out there to be knowable. You need to be a thought leader. You've got experience, you should share it. Number three, you need to have a message, but you need to be able to deliver it. And a lot of people, you know, public speaking is the number one fear among all Americans. Number two is death, by the way, which makes me laugh.
Rob Johnson [00:18:35] Public speaking is worse than death.
Kraig Kann [00:18:37] Isn't that crazy, Rob? What it actually suggests is people would rather be buried underground six feet than be aboveground talking about the life they lived before they were buried underground, which makes no sense at all to me. Okay. So anyway, got to be able to deliver it. Executive presence is really important. You know, being prepared when you go into that meeting. Rob knows this, you know this, Eileen. Nobody pays attention to you when everything's going well. But if things are going bad, they look to leaders to see how they'll react. That's when people pay attention. So public speaking is a great differentiator. Communications is a great differentiator. 85%, according to a Dale Carnegie study, 85% of our wealth or our success in financial terms comes from communication skills and the way we present, not from what we learned in our trade or in our school. Very important. Warren Buffett says 50%, you can raise your value by 50% by mastering communications and public speaking. So there are some ways to break through the clutter.
Rob Johnson [00:19:39] Well, the thing I liked about you, when you're talking about calling people up there and asking them very basic questions, the flip side of that is, having witnessed that, the people who are going, "oh, gosh, it's my turn." The other side is when you give this notion to people, to clients, to whomever, and they're like, "Oh, this is so easy." And they're thinking, "Oh, gosh, this guy's starting at the very beginning. We're starting it, you know, 101," which is what you need to do. Who are you? What do you do? Who do you do it for? And what makes you different? And that's your most basic elevator pitch possible. And it's amazing to me, not the people that are cringing or sort of nervous about getting up there who are like, "gosh, I hope I do okay," And then they do fine. It's the people that think this is a joke and like, "come on, this is all we're doing today?" And it's like, "no, this is where we're starting today?" But if you can't answer those basic questions, you're not going to get to the second part of the conversation. If you're not compelling, clear, concise- you're done. And so I love the flip side of that, which is I've seen, you know, in the webinar, you know, Kraig, watching people get called up and like, "okay, here I go." But yeah, everybody's attention span is increased because they know they might get called. But it's also the people that think, "oh, this is beneath me." And then they get up there and they butcher it and you're like, "Listen, it's basic, but you got to commit to the those basic premises." And I know this is stuff that Eileen works with her clients all the time on too. This is where we're starting this, not where we're finishing.
Kraig Kann [00:21:09] Yeah, yeah. I mean, you guys run businesses. I run a business. If we do it the same way everybody else does it, then we're not breaking through the clutter either. I have people say, "Kraig, nobody does a workshop, like, that was eye opening. I've never seen it, I've never been. Perfect." That's exactly what I want to hear. I don't want my workshop to be anything like anybody else's, and it isn't frankly. And people say, "hey, you know, who are you?" Like, if I got called up, "I'm an elevator." "You're an elevator? Like, you go up and down?" No, I elevate people to become better. I elevate brands to become bigger through creating awareness and better messaging. And if you bring me to your event, I will make that event. I elevate that event to become grander and better, whether I'm an MC or whatever. I don't do talks, I don't do keynotes. And people are like "No, you do. It says keynote." Yeah. You know what I try to do? I try to deliver an experience because that's what gets people talking at the end of the day.
Eileen Rochford [00:22:12] And how would you say you make people feel?
Kraig Kann [00:22:16] I mean, that's really for other people to say, probably more than me. I mean, if you're going to ask me to do the humblebrag, I guess what I would say is this.
Eileen Rochford [00:22:25] We welcome that here.
Rob Johnson [00:22:27] Okay, 10 seconds.
Kraig Kann [00:22:28] Now, Rob, you've been on TV for a number of years. I've been on TV for a number of years, now on radio as well. And you know what? You have audiences. You don't know how many people are watching or listening in a given time. And you can't always see everybody. You're looking at a light, you're looking at a screen, whatever. But when I'm in a room with 20 corporate executives that are in there to build their brand and elevate themselves and learn about the value of leadership and communication and how it's tied together. And they have to get up and own the room and stand out when they stand up. And I can see people's eyes and I can see people's expressions and I work with them from a position of their strengths, not their weaknesses. That to me is what I try to do. If that's empowering or inspiring, then I've done my job. If they give me a standing ovation at the end, which is the goal, by the way, you always start with outcome first. That's what I want to happen. Now, how do I make that happen? And that's how I think about messaging. That's how I think about communications. That's how I think about branding. What outcome do I want? All right, now I'm going to work my way backwards. How can I achieve that? So that's the whole goal right there.
Eileen Rochford [00:23:39] That's great. You're making me feel motivated, if that's helpful.
Kraig Kann [00:23:43] I love that. I try to do that. And you know what? Here's the other thing. The last page in the workbook that I have that everybody goes through. It says, "What will you tell others about your experience with the Elevate Workshop and Kann Advisory Group?" And they write it. I give them, you know, 5 minutes or whatever and they write it. Now, I said, "Tell me about your experience. What will you tell others?" So I make it into like a story. What ends up happening is I get all my marketing quotes straight from that piece of paper and I get my feedback. You know, "this was great. This was eye opening. This was this- I wish I had this earlier," and that stuff helps me. So, I guess what I'm saying, Eileen, every single thing you do has to have an ultimate purpose. And, you know, how can it help others is the number one thing. I don't do the workshop or the keynote or the whatever or this podcast for my personal benefit, it is for the audience's benefit. And I always think the audience is saying three things or thinking, "So what? Who cares? What's in this for me?" And I make sure I think about that constantly as I'm going through whatever I do, because you have to keep them engaged.
Rob Johnson [00:24:56] That's really, that's terrific stuff. And something I think people can really relate to. I think the great thing about sharing this information with people is that it's all actionable and it's all, I think, right in front of them and they can say, "oh, gosh, I can do that as well." I want to, before we move on, I just want to say, as a precursor to our next topic, I'm sitting here on a podcast with two of my favorite collaborators. So I appreciate what both of you have, you know, done with me and for me and all the content being created and that sort of thing. So I just want to say that. I know that's a little bit of an indulgent moment, but I just I had to say that.
Kraig Kann [00:25:36] Oh right back at you. And I can't wait to work with Eileen outside of this.
Eileen Rochford [00:25:40] Oh, yay! That'll be fun.
Rob Johnson [00:25:41] She's a dynamo, man. She is awesome. So, Kraig, we've referenced it a little bit. We've worked together on the "Brand New You" webinar. We did it with some clients and one of your things, and I thought it was very effective and now I know it has sort of a double meaning that you're having to really educate people about, but you're presenting a green Converse Canvas sneaker to various people in the workshop. And I know what your original intent is, and it works very well and people really respond to it. Why did you start doing this? And in the sort of context of current events, what does it mean to you now and what do you want? What information do you want to share with people?
Kraig Kann [00:26:24] Yeah, more. It means a lot more. And it's emotional now as well. You know, I started my business in 2016, Kann Advisory Group was started in 2016 and I started delivering keynotes and workshops and was very blessed, fortunate to have some people in places like SAP and KPMG and some other organizations that I worked with, which led to many others and my whole workshop and every talk, if you will, every experience that I try to give, I try to create in the room the idea of the importance of building one's brand and standing out in the crowd. Okay, so you've got a superpower, Eileen. Rob, you've got your superpower. I've got mine. We've all- everybody's got one. And in that day, in the eight hour workshop, the 20 people that are in there or whatever the number, they learn to deliver a couple of things. Number one, a back pocket speech, which I coach, but also they learn to be able to understand their story and how it ties to the corporate story or their business story and how they can become not an employee, but an ambassador of that brand and of themselves. So they learn to stand in front of a room and own it. So everybody has to get up and speak in front of the group. And some of it's impromptu; they don't know when it's coming, they don't know when I'm going to pick them and all of that. And then there's a little, and I'm giving this away, there's a little presentation contest in the afternoon and it's voted upon. And at the end of the day, somebody wins. It's a group exercise. Somebody wins, you know, best presentation team and somebody wins all star presenter of the day- that's thus Converse All Star. I started this six years ago and it started because I had a slide, I have a slide that has five pairs of white shoes and one pair of green shoes, all right? And the goal is, how do we stand out? How do we separate ourselves? And that's a visual image that's powerful to people when they start thinking about it. "My gosh, I have all this competition. How can I stand out?" And so the shoe is awarded to the person who stands out. At the end of the day, I sign it, it's got my company logo on it, it has for six years and I've done it every time. And obviously now through a horrific tragedy in Texas this year and a ten year old girl identified by wearing Converse Green High Tops, it's got an emotional tie to me, you know, to be honest. And it's difficult. And I've had people say, "oh, you know, what are you going to do now? You've been doing this for a long time." And I say, you know what? I'm going to give it out with even more meaning now, because it's it's not just a tribute to someone's success in building their brand that day and being voted on by their peers. But it's now a tribute as well to a young girl and a bunch of families who've had to deal with something that none of us would ever want to have to deal with. And I salute that. And I take a moment in my talks to exactly talk about that. So it is a bit emotional, actually.
Eileen Rochford [00:29:43] I can appreciate that. That had to be a struggle too, for you professionally, when it was something that you were just doing kind of as a, you know, a matter of fact, elements of the brand that you had established.
Kraig Kann [00:29:57] People get their picture taken with it, you know, and I'll take a selfie with them with it. And it's on my website, KannAdvisory.com. It's in the book. I talk about it. So it's just, you know, different. It's just a little different now. But I believe it's more special. And I certainly try to carry myself with great respect for all those families and for that that one family in particular.
Eileen Rochford [00:30:24] Yeah, but the essence of the message is so clear. Be the green shoe in this sea of white shoes.
Kraig Kann [00:30:30] That's right. That's it. You know, the white shoes are ordinary. And ordinary doesn't work today. It doesn't work in business. It doesn't work as a student. It doesn't work trying to get into a university. It doesn't work in sports. Ordinary doesn't get you very far. We have to find a way to be extraordinary. And if you think about that and how we do that, it is about standing out. It is about being the green shoe. It is about finding a way to separate yourself from others. And that's the message that I want people to leave with after they've heard me, be it for an hour or 8 hours is, you know what I got to start thinking about myself.
Eileen Rochford [00:31:11] It's interesting that I'm just hearing you talk today in a number of contexts. You're making me appreciate something that I didn't give enough credence to, I think now in retrospect, from personal perspective, I've got a 17 year old. So does Rob. They're both doing the "try to stand out in a sea of college applicants." And my daughter has been doing a sport for a long time, that isn't a sport that would enable her to get any kind of leg up in college. Most of us aren't even going to have this sport- it's American Ninja Warrior- and so even though she's been doing that since she was, what, nine or ten and, you know, in my head, as I'm listening, other people would say, "well, that's going to be great. She's going to be able to utilize that in all these ways to help herself stand out when she's applying to college." And I was in my head, I was kind of like, I don't know about that, but now I'm realizing just listening to your talk that it has extreme value because it in and of itself is so unique despite that it has no application to, you know, the college she'll attend. So thank you for opening my eyes to that.
Kraig Kann [00:32:23] What mark will she ultimately leave? You know, my daughter's got two internships this summer. She's a rising college senior, and I actually I have twins. They're 25 currently. Girl and boy. And I have a 21 year old who thinks she's at least 25. And I pushed all of them to take classes in college that were relevant, even back into high school. And I said, you should take public speaking. They all took it. They all took it because it's of great value. You will always, you know, need to think about that. You know, I tell people smiles over sales and connection over information. And so many people want to sell, sell, sell, sell, sell their business and they forget that we don't buy businesses or we don't buy brands first- we buy people first, right Rob? We buy people first. And so we have to build that skill. It's so, so important for people to do. And the challenges that we face along the way are so valuable that, you know, the experienced sailor never got there by navigating calm seas, right? So you have to be able to go through some troubled waters along the way. It can truly help you. So all those things are, in my mind, really important. And I told my daughter this summer, "when you leave that internship, what mark will you have left?" We have just put in 8 hours a day or are they going to remember you for you doing something that you can tangibly walk out of there and say, I accomplished this? You know, that's what I would tell your 17 year olds, you know, what are you actually able to take with you to college that you can say, here's the imprint that I put on my high school team or my class or my whatever. And and don't just take what somebody gives you as an assignment or a project or something in your career, in your organization. Don't just take what's given to you and accomplish it. Take what's given to you and work to be "extraordinary green shoe-like" and give back something that's better than people expected when they gave you the opportunity in the first place. And the last thing I would say to that is when people are speaking, the number of times, Rob, you and I talked about this on the webinar i; I coach executives to stand up and own a room. I love it, by the way, and a lot of them start out with me and they'll go, "Yeah, I need your help because I have to give a talk next week." I said, No, you don't. "So what are you talking about?" I said, you don't have to give a talk next week. You get to give a talk next week. You know, opportunities are made. And more opportunities come for you, for succeeding at the ones you get and you can't just focus on making a paycheck- you got to make a difference. You got to make people feel something when you're doing it, whether it's an internship or whatever else. So sorry, I'm on my soapbox.
Eileen Rochford [00:35:20] Oh, my God. I love it.
Rob Johnson [00:35:21] That's why we have you on.
Eileen Rochford [00:35:24] Again, I'm feeling motivated. Yeah, that's great stuff. And it's an excellent segway, I think, into the next question that I'd really like to ask, and that is, so is it possible or advisable to create a personal and a professional brand, or should they be connected? And if so, are there ever occasions when they shouldn't be connected?
Kraig Kann [00:35:49] Okay. I'll ask you this question, Eileen. Would you like to be known for something different in your business life than you are in your personal life? In other words, if I met you at work and then I had, you know, dinner in your kitchen sitting at your island, are you going to be two totally different people?
Eileen Rochford [00:36:16] I am not going to be two totally different people.
Kraig Kann [00:36:18] Good.
Eileen Rochford [00:36:19] But I am a very private person, so there would be things that I would not make a habit of putting front and center in my work life that I would be more than happy to discuss with someone whom I felt comfortable enough to invite into my home.
Kraig Kann [00:36:37] Okay.
Eileen Rochford [00:36:40] I know. I'm always complicated. Sorry.
Kraig Kann [00:36:42] That's okay. That's okay. I would say this. If your business brand and who you are in that business is different from the person that people would get outside of that, that wouldn't be very authentic. And your values and your business principles wouldn't be necessarily guaranteed to be aligned. We need to be transparent as to who we are. We need to be someone who has a clear message with, you know, clarity, concise, all that sort of stuff. I'll put it to you this way. I get to do a lot of speaking engagements. I've got a bunch coming up the rest of this year. I'm very excited about all of them. I'm not a shotgun speaker. I don't just go up on the stage, do my thing and leave. I never do that. I make it a practice that if you hire me to do an hour and a half talk, you're going to get an hour and a half beforehand, an hour and a half after at a minimum of me engaging with people there. Why do I do that? I want people to see me as the human being first and have some fun, maybe a few laughs, maybe a cocktail before I go up on the stage, I want to have six cocktails, believe it or not, before I go on the stage, right? But I try to be that person. And to the point of the book, you know, I'll then stay- like I've got this company coming up, they're buying 200 books, so I'm going have to sign a lot of books, but I'm giving that book- that's an experience. People will take a picture, I'll sign it personally, you know, whatever. You have to build a business brand around the authentic you. I am not- I hope not- I mean, Rob say, we went and spent tons of time together. You know, we haven't gone to a baseball game or, you know, taken our kids on a vacation to Cancun or anything like that. But I'm pretty confident I have a good idea that I know who Rob is. And in talking to you, Eileen, I think I have a pretty good idea right now, knowing who you are based upon our conversation. And I hope that in me talking to people before I go up on the stage that they're going to go, "that's the guy I just talked to." And, you know, and when you read my book, Rob, I hope you read it and felt 'you know, what that's the Kraig Kann that I know. He wrote it just like that."
Rob Johnson [00:38:55] That's the biggest thing; that authenticity. And so even if Eileen saying "hey I'm a little bit more private," that's fine, as long as you're authentic to who you are. And she is 100%. But I think that's a terrific point, because you can't be one person here and then a totally different person there. You can have two different lives and you can, you know, lean into your family life and then have your professional life. And you can put them in different boxes, but the authenticity of the person you are needs to shine through no matter which brand you're being out there.
Kraig Kann [00:39:28] Put it this way. I'll wrap that question with this; if I'm going to coach communication skills and presentation skills, which, by the way, Eileen, I cannot make you the best public speaker in the world. And Rob, I couldn't make you the best presenter in the world. I would never even tell you that I could do that. But if you go through my one and a half day boot camp, Elevate Boot Camp, which is different than the workshop, just one on one. I can make you your best public speaker and your best presenter, because I'm going to find out what your strengths are. And that's what we're going to work with. And I'm going to find a way to create body language and all that stuff. In other words, if I'm going to be a guy that coaches presentation skills or communication, then I certainly better be a guy that can communicate and make people pay attention or create a feeling and a vibe, right? Whether it's through a podcast like this or a conversation that we might have that will make people be able to pay attention because that's what I'm coaching.
Eileen Rochford [00:40:26] Yeah. Great advice.
Rob Johnson [00:40:28] Absolutely. All right, before we go here, Kraig, I'm really fascinated by this. And you live in this world. And I know- or maybe I don't know. Maybe you are dealing with current players and that sort of thing. But I want to try a personal and professional brand exercise with you. First, let's give context by saying that you have had a fruitful and long standing relationship with the Professional Golfers Association, the PGA Tour. And I don't believe you're advising any professional golfers at the moment, but if you are, you can let me know. But what I want to know is what advice would you give golfers that have left the PGA or DP World Tour? That's the former European tour- to join the new LIV golf tour, which is backed by the Saudi public pension fund. So on one hand, you have a handful of golfers, some of them receiving nine figure signing bonuses, providing generational wealth to their families, which is, you know, all of a sudden you're like, "we're set." On the other hand, they're getting into business with the Saudis, whose human rights track record, I think everybody knows, is atrocious. So you have these golfers that are faced with being filthy rich and their families while polarizing, not almost say much of the public, but a certain segment of that audience, perhaps their fans and the people who buy the stuff they're selling. So in that context, what would Kraig Kann from Kann Advisory say? Oh gosh, I'm thinking about joining. I'm going to set myself up for life, but I might be a little bit of a pariah. What would you tell them?
Kraig Kann [00:42:05] Well, first of all, I would tell them this. You know, when I do media coaching, media training. I don't like to say training- to me, that's like throwing a bone at a dog and telling them "doggy roll over." I coach people. I would say there's no such thing as a bad question. You know, you might think you're facing bad questions. There's no such thing as a bad question, but there's a really bad answer. And you better know what your message is loud and clear, and you better be able to deliver it. Look, people have personal and professional choices that they have to make. They align with certain businesses. They align with certain brands. At the end of the day, who we align with is also how we're thought of. And if you're comfortable with that, then you need to do what you need to do. You know, this is a real disruption in the game of golf. I've spent 30 plus years in golf, 17 and a half at Golf Channel, five as the chief communications officer at the LPGA and now Sirius XM PGA Tour Radio, among other things. This is a disruption to to what we've known as golf to be for a long time. But you know what? It's not the first time it's happened in professional sports. I mean, everyone's a little bit different, but if you remember, way back there was the ABA and the NBA. If you remember back there was the AFL and there was the NFL. If you remember back there was the USFL and the NFL. And if you are a racecar fan, you know about CART and Indy and the split that they had. So golf is facing this for the first time and there's a lot of money to be made. At the end of the day, all the players will benefit somehow, someway from this. I don't own a PGA Tour card. I'm not that good. But I spent 18 years out there and I'll always be aligned with the PGA Tour. I'll always be a fan of what the PGA Tour provides. And that actually has nothing to do with the fact that I work for Sirius XM PGA Tour Radio. I'm just a fan of what they provide communities and the platform that they give players. So I don't have a card, Rob, but I do know that they have player advisory councils and they have boards that players are able to sit on. I believe they're compensated for. And at the end of the day, the tour's job is to create opportunities for their members more playing opportunities and more purses. Now, if a bunch of people want to go over and play on the LIV tour, then the PGA Tour and the commissioner will probably struggle at some point to potentially go to a sponsor, come up with whatever big Fortune 100 company you want and say, "I need an extra $2 million in the purse this year." Well, then they're going to say, tell me who's in the field, you know, because they want that. So there is a pull and a tug. This is a bit of a battle. It will sort itself out. What would I tell players? Make your own choice, but be able to live with the potential consequences.
Rob Johnson [00:45:00] And be able to articulate it- that choice that you've made, be able to articulate it to those questions, because as you pointed out, there's no bad questions- they're just bad answers. That's a terrific point.
Eileen Rochford [00:45:12] Yeah. Would you also agree that maybe it's not just being able to live with consequences? Because those may not be immediate, but maybe it's more values alignment. Like does this personally align with your values and the brand you represent? And more so just, you know, what you want your legacy to be kind of stuff.
Kraig Kann [00:45:32] Great. Great point.
Eileen Rochford [00:45:33] It's a longer play, right?
Kraig Kann [00:45:34] Yeah. I mean, I think a lot. Our favorite thing about my radio show, it's called Connected with Kraig Kann, I get to connect with players and all these guys and I get to control my own guests and, you know, bring them on, pick them, whatever. And I get to connect with the listeners. And I take a lot of phone calls, and I love interviewing people, I love talking with people. And oftentimes I have people that have played out on tour for a number of years and might be in their fifties and be on the PGA Tour champions. And I always love the legacy question, you know, what do you want to be? What do you want to be known for? I think about that for myself, and I think about it as I'm in front of every audience. I can't control that people are going to say something about me that just are, you know. The most important 30 seconds of your presentation that you give is that 10 seconds walking up onto the stage so people see your body language and a smile on your face and then 10 seconds walking off, hopefully that you're grateful and gracious for the opportunity that you were just given. He just passed away and he's a mentor of mine at the University of Missouri. He's a legend in the journalism school. His name's Kent Collins, and he was just an amazing professor. And he had a quote, and I use it in all my talks. And the quote is, "You can't preach to anybody unless you can get them into the church." Great, great comment. And it doesn't matter if you're talking to your kids, if you're talking to a corporate group, if you're talking to your team in your organization, if you're doing a keynote speech, there are a lot of great preachers out there. They don't necessarily always have great messages. And and what are they remembered for? Our job is to make people remember what they're supposed to remember, right? And remember us as well. But getting them into the church means physically getting people in, but also mentally getting them in so that they can they can buy into that as well. So when I'm in front of an audience or even going there in the first place, I do think about what do I want to be remembered for? You know, what value did I deliver today and how do I want to be remembered as. Because they're going to say something about me no matter what. I can't control, you know, the fact that they're going to *whisper noises.* We live in a gossip society, right? Word of mouth marketing. Bigger than ever. My job is to try to control the narrative and try to create a business and a person that they feel connected to, period. And if I can connect and make people feel good, then I've done my job.
Rob Johnson [00:48:14] Can I get an amen for Pastor Kann, please? Well done. Yeah, seriously. That's great stuff, man.
Kraig Kann [00:48:20] Thank you.
Eileen Rochford [00:48:21] So, true. Yeah, and I think we agree with everything that you're saying, but I just love.
Kraig Kann [00:48:28] You don't have to.
Eileen Rochford [00:48:29] Well, true. I've disagreed with some guests.
Kraig Kann [00:48:32] Okay, good.
Eileen Rochford [00:48:33] No, but your tilt is what I like, is kind of the different way that you both present the information. And even though I've done this forever, it feels like you still have to be thinking about things in a different way, which is tremendous.
Kraig Kann [00:48:46] So, yeah, I'll leave people with this, you know, before we go. The importance of brand is where this all went, the importance of getting noticed. Everybody's got to figure out what their superpower is, if you will, and how it can help them out. And it takes time. It takes reflection, it takes research, actually asking other people. And we need to sit down and spend time to figure out what our greatest skill is, what our biggest value add is. Because ultimately that is what our reputation builder becomes. That's what people will remember us for. And at the end of the day, it also becomes your career legacy. So I challenge people, you're all going to go to a big conference and you got two options. A, You can be sitting in the room wearing a lanyard, taking notes, representing your company like so many people do, and they collect business cards, not relationships, by the way. Or you can be on the stage on a panel of four or five wearing a lanyard representing not only your organization, but the industry itself. Which one do you want? Well, if you want to be known for something, if you want to be the person with the brand, I think you'd want to be up on that stage. It creates a lot more value for other people than for yourself long term. You just got to figure out how to get there.
Kraig Kann [00:50:21] Excellent closing advice. Thank you. Oh, my gosh. You just crammed a lot into an awesome conversation. And I really appreciate you being our guest today, Kraig.
Kraig Kann [00:50:33] My pleasure.
Kraig Kann [00:50:34] Really, really appreciate it. And thank you, Rob, for introducing me to Kraig. This has been a pleasure.
Kraig Kann [00:50:41] And I've had a blast, I really do appreciate it.
Kraig Kann [00:50:45] So I guess that's going to do it for another episode of Can You Hear Me? Special thanks, so much to Kraig for being here. We really appreciate it, Kraig Kann of Kann Advisory Group. I'm Eileen Rochford.
Kraig Kann [00:50:59] And I'm Rob Johnson. We thank you for listening and remind you that you can find Can You Hear Me? wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts and more. Thanks for listening.