On this episode of "Can You Hear Me?", hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford dive deep into the resurgence of the Great Resignation. With a significant portion of the workforce actively seeking new jobs, even without having another lined up, employers are facing a critical challenge. We'll explore the key factors driving this exodus, including low pay, overly stressful work environments, and the desire for better benefits. Drawing insights from recent research, we'll discuss the four key "quests" that compel people to leave their current roles. Rob and Eileen will offer practical advice for employers on how to address employee concerns and create a more positive and engaging work culture to retain top talent.
The Great Resignation Returns: 2025 Exodus
Is the Great Resignation 2.0 coming? Nearly 3 in 10 workers plan to quit this year: Survey
Rob Johnson: [00:00:01] Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. [00:00:24][23.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:25] And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of The Harbinger Group, a marketing and strategy firm. Today, we're going to talk about the great Resignation 2.0 because we've been here before. That's for today. Yes. So we're revisiting this situation because it seems to be back. This isn't the mass exodus that occurred back in 2021. That's when so many employees were unhappy with their jobs and just decided to actively look for new ones. Buckle up, everybody, because it really, really looks like this is happening again. I mean, it's it's perplexing to me, but it's here. It's back. And we're all going to have to deal with that situation. So we're going to dive deep into the reasons behind this perplexing resurgence and exploring the broken promises. Also, unmet expectations that are driving employees to seek the greener pastures. [00:01:13][48.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:14] You know what, Eileen? I was just reading something today about the great stay of 2024 where people weren't as actively searching for those opportunities. That was so 2024. We are 2025 and everything is changing. So the data paints a really concerning picture. According to a recent survey published at the end of 2020, for over half in fact, 56% of full time employees in the U.S. are looking to switch jobs in 2025. And not only that, nearly a third are so restless they're willing to quit their current positions even without having something new lined up. This highlights the urgency of understanding why so many talented individuals are leaving and feeling this way. So it's it is very interesting. And it happened a few years back and now it's happening again. And you wonder, to what do we attribute that? What say you? Well. [00:02:05][51.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:02:05] I think that comfortable I wouldn't even call it comfortable. I would call it the safety move of 2024 of staying in your job. There was a lot of wait and see what was happening because the rumblings about the economy, which frankly never came true. Right. Our economy, zero eggs cost $10. I mean, we could go on right now. None of that, thankfully, turned out to be true. But people were in this mode of, gosh, we better just hunker down and see what happens, whether it was with the election, was it whether it was with layoffs that they kept hearing about were looming at their organization and maybe they wanted to take the exit package? It was just a lot of moving parts and people felt the best move was to just sit tight and ride it out and see what's going to happen. Well, it seems like in the last month or so, things have become much more clear. And I think that the data that you just cited, that was from very late in December of 2024 shows evidence of that, that, okay, elections behind us. We have seen lots of we'll call it reassuring insights from the Fed and all other moves of that nature, Unemployment being remaining really, really low. So people feel like I'm in a bit of a power position now. And let's let's tack on the fact that in the last quarter of 2020, for many, many large employers, banks, huge employers like Chase and others have just kind of brought down the hammer on hybrid or remote work situations and have been in large numbers, calling employees back to the daily commute and all that goes along with that. So we'll get into that a bit later. But the push for of why, you know what, I get pushed out the door because of into internal circumstances or pulled to a better situation because I know there are greener pastures. As we said earlier, there's tons of factors contributing to why this is happening now. But it really feels like it happened pretty fast, didn't it? [00:03:59][114.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:04:00] Well, yeah, it does, because, you know, the thing that was interesting was obviously four years ago, the pandemic, you know, changed a lot. And all of a sudden there's this great resignation that was a thing. And you really felt like the employees for the first time maybe ever had some leverage. And I think they were using it. And that was kind of a main premise of that. And then in recent years, it feels like some of that changed and the employers had it back. For instance, were, you know, we're going to call everybody back to the office, just like you mentioned. And now people are like, yeah, that's I mean, again, that's that's a big point that we're going to dive into in a little bit. But man, it is. How do you I don't know how you unring that bell. And what's interesting, your time at Chase and Jamie Dimon in places like that, some of these really great brands in business worldwide calling people back five days a week. And I was just talking to a client of mine who's high up the food chain at his organization who's like, I would call them all back. Jamie Dimon is calling everybody back. You know, you can't you can't do professional development. You can't do mentoring. You can't do you can't do that. And I mean, so that was his pitch to me recently, saying he didn't really have any way of impacting that. He mean, he was he's high up, but he wasn't like making the decision. Yeah, but the fact that that's a. Point at that organization is interesting because we've heard, hey, you know, because this this company has a hybrid work environment and three days a week you're there, two days a week you're not. And now it's like, they should be back all the time. So the fact that people are feeling that way, you know, I think it changes the dynamic a little bit. [00:05:36][96.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:37] Yeah, it sure does. Well, I just want to point out that that recurring tension about what can and can't be done in a remote environment, I really think that that is what's at the root of that, I should say, is the fact that we have four different generations present in the workplace right now. [00:05:54][17.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:05:55] Yeah, yeah. [00:05:55][0.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:55] And yeah, those of course, who are at the older age range experience range of, you know, the, those generations think that their way is the only way and because they just haven't lived long enough in a room remotes environment and the tension at the other end of that generational spectrum you know those two generations are like what are you talking about? Of course you can write. Some of them went to especially. [00:06:20][25.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:06:21] Especially somebody like this at a remote work environment for so many years, like I'm sure for The. [00:06:26][5.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:06:27] Harbinger Group. Sure, sure. Yeah. But I'm just hearing from, you know, more of that generational representation lately and reading much more about their experiences. And I think that that can not be underestimated. You know, if you're a leader who wants to keep the people you have and develop the people that you have, you have to take all that into account. You can't just assume that the perspectives of those at the older, more experienced range of generations in your workplace are 100% right. Because frankly, you know that retirement cliff is looming and we're all going to be impacted by that. So just keep that in mind If you're if you're really serious about this, pay attention. I think that this, you know, boomerang of a great resignation 2.0 coming at us within four years means that this is something that should be tended to. And there's quite a bit of ways to do that. [00:07:14][47.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:07:14] So and h.r. And leadership everywhere should be feeling the same way about it like they did the first time, which is we've invested so much money in these people to professionally develop them. We can't afford. We want to, we want to attract and we want to retain. That's pretty basic. It's been the way it's been along for a long time. And you don't want to spend all that kind of money having to time and effort and money trying to. [00:07:36][21.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:07:36] Do it alone and the loss of productivity. Greg Just a couple of reminders. Yeah. So let's let's just cover why are people wanting to quit? Let's what is at the root of that mindset as recently as the end of December and 2024? So the survey found that workers, they're putting their jobs over a couple of things. The first and the biggest is we all know this, it's low pay. So if they perhaps went through their end of year bonus and raise conversations and they're kind of like, really? That's it serious? Yeah, that's probably contributing to the timing of that number going up so high to 56%. Because remember what you said before, Rob, was a lot lower. I believe that it was like in July of last year, it was closer to 1 in 3. Now it's more than half. So that's in six months. That changed. Okay, so whoa, we have something to deal with, no doubt about that. Second highest reason is overly stressful work environments. And I would just say that's probably a combination of an overly stressful life and job coming together. It's never just one that's at 43%. And then the desire for better benefits, 44% again, end of year. They probably got their news about cuts in their health care benefits, for example. Maybe they got rid of the life insurance plan. Maybe they're no longer offering dental or vision. All kinds of things can get taken away that make people feel like, well, wait, the value just isn't as great as it was. And yet you're still expecting me to do one and a half jobs within the work week, and you're telling me I can no longer have a hybrid situation that kind of eases that pain a bit? So all of these there's never one reason. It's always a combination. So we got to keep that in mind. [00:09:20][103.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:09:20] And the benefits thing cannot be understated because as I was, you know, my small, you know, Rob Johnson communications, you know, I have group plan through one of the major insurers and it went up, you know, like 2015, 20%. And it's like, well, that's just the way it is. That's just the way it is. And these these companies just keep hiking and hiking and hiking and acting and getting around. It feels like they're almost tone deaf to like what's really going on in the world. [00:09:47][26.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:09:47] And no getting around it. It's like a fact of life. [00:09:50][2.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:09:50] It's for everybody. So even if you have an employer, you know, contribution your plan through your employer, you're getting hammered. People say, yeah. [00:09:57][6.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:09:57] We pay full freight or employee health care benefits at our firm, and our increase was 14%. Yeah. And our broker, who's amazing said, You're getting off easy. That's true. Ask around to fellow, you know, business owners of similar sizes and even you know on up to kind of like the just below the small to mid thrust. Absolutely. I heard of a dozen different conversations I had that their increases were as high as 20 like yours. So 714%. So if you think about that, you split that. In most cases, I think the vast majority of employers still expects employees to pay for half of that. So suddenly after they got whacked with, say, 15% more on something that already probably per month for their family was, you know, 700, $600. So that gets meaningful in terms of money. So finding ways like it's cheaper for an employer to cover that cost honestly and to write it off as an operating expense than it is to pass it off. Just just ask yourself the question, should we be paying more? Because that alone could be the difference maker. That's just one you know, I wouldn't call that creative. I would call that that's kind of many right now, employers are saying, no way. We want to give them more of the cost, not less of the cost. And I think when you feel like you're. [00:11:12][74.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:11:12] Losing ground, you know, like you're losing ground and it's like, okay, we're going to give you way worse benefits than we used to just because it's getting so expensive, just because these these companies are like, we're just going to hike, you know, we don't care. We're going to hike the rates. So for them, profit. [00:11:28][16.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:11:29] That's why, you know, no, of. [00:11:29][0.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:11:29] Course. Yes. I mean the add in in some would agree it's about exorbitant profit, no doubt. [00:11:36][6.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:11:36] Yeah. [00:11:36][0.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:11:37] Because whenever I see. [00:11:38][0.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:11:38] All of the health care. [00:11:39][0.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:11:40] No, we're not. But but I'm just saying. That's what you just brought up. All right. I'll get back on the train. Leaving the tracks now. Getting back on. Here we go. So let's talk about proactive measures that are needed to avoid another mass exodus. You know how much I love the Harvard Business Review as a professional development tool? I use a lot. It recently published a series of articles exploring the root causes of employee dissatisfaction. In the piece titled Why Employees Quit. The authors identify four key quests that drive people to seek new jobs. One, they want to get out. They want to escape from a bad situation. Number two, they want to regain control, take more ownership over their work. Number three, regain alignment, feel like their skills and experience are valued. And number four, take the next step, pursue new challenges and growth opportunities. That's where a lot of people are in the world. But I mean, the alignment piece is really interesting, I think, because you want because I feel like so many companies and I know that we reference yours a lot because, you know, you're the boss. But I feel like the things that you do with your whole culture and your team and alignment is so important. And maybe a lot of companies didn't used to do that. I know you've done it forever, but other but other companies started doing that to attract better talent during the pandemic and realizing they had to do more. And so being aligned, being on the same page and pulling in the same direction, you know, really had a major priority. And it felt like in recent years, like, okay, we're kind of back to normal and the employers back in charge and that sort of thing. But once you've had that alignment, once you've had that satisfaction for the work you're doing and feeling like it's important and it's valued, and then all of a sudden it's like, yeah, that went away to just like some of your benefits that went away. I can understand that. [00:13:23][103.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:13:23] Yeah, totally. Yeah, it's that is probably the fastest way to go from happy to sat in a position in any company is to have that the shift that you just described take place. And we've all probably got stories I have my own similar like this is ages ago, but I have that situation where I know the company was perfect, the leadership was great. But then the direct, the kind of structural situation for organization changed, which impacted me in an interesting way. And suddenly it went for me, reporting to someone whom I deeply admired to to a situation that as described, just sounded wholly unsatisfying. And that was the trigger. That was the push. And you just talked about the push in the fall. We've all got them. I thought that the descriptions in particular in this HP article was were pretty enlightening. So if you don't mind, I'm going to read a couple of them to sort. [00:14:17][53.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:14:18] Of in front of me, too. Please go ahead. [00:14:19][1.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:14:20] So there was this I'm pushed when section that I was like, yeah, because these are verbatim from the people who are interviewed. So I'm pushed when I don't respect or trust the people with whom I work. Yeah, there's that trust word yet again. And it's we talk about that so often on the show. So tending to relationships and trust is something that can we could do proactively to make it much, much more likely that our folks are going to want to stay and be with us, you know, and at our mission. So don't forget that tending to the relationships and the trust, those are so, so important and giving opportunities for people to tell you are they feeling trusted or do they feel like they trust, you know, their manager, their colleagues have conversations as often as you can. Now, talking about surveys, those are fine if you're not actually having conversations frequently to find the. Signals. So we've talked about in the past the importance of the weekly one on one with people who report to you or with your manager. Commit to the one on one again and make sure on your agenda that you've got a place where you're covering aspects of trust in the health of relationships of colleagues. That's a very proactive thing that people can do. It doesn't cost any money either. It's just about the way system. [00:15:39][79.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:15:40] That one's free. But you have to be pretty. [00:15:41][1.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:15:43] Free's always get hidden like that. Here's another one. I feel that the work I'm doing has little or no impact on the company, the world, or my life. That's kind of a big deal. But just, you know, you can control the company part, right? So when we think about the company, how are you framing the the projects and how they ladder up to big things that are meaningful for progress to the organization? If you're not doing that framing, whether it's in your one on ones or team meetings, your organizational meetings, it's another easy and frankly free way that you can improve people's engagement and increase their their feelings of, Yeah, what I do here, it does matter. And I like it. I like that feeling and I want to keep doing it because I can see that it's going somewhere that's, you know, as a leader, you know, the inspirational elements of your leadership should always be showing people the way forward and what their contributions are to getting there. So there's another thing that you can do. Stop micromanaging because people say that the way that their managers day to day just wears them down and they can't take it anymore and they want to leave. [00:16:49][65.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:16:49] So we. [00:16:49][0.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:16:50] Have time to. [00:16:51][0.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:16:52] Talk about that. Yeah, we've we've started that in probably three of the last five episodes because it's so annoying. [00:16:58][6.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:16:59] And. [00:16:59][0.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:17:00] Nobody likes it. So you're like. [00:17:01][1.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:17:02] But that's, it's because it's there's a resurgence of it just like this Great resignation 2.0. Rob Like there's a resurgence of it. And I think that that's why we're finding that topic so relevant. Again, people are doing it again. So you got to stop. Just cut. [00:17:17][15.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:17:17] It out. It is it is fascinating to see how something like that was really was really a product, a first time of the pandemic. Right. And kind of how the rules changed. And then all of a sudden businesses go back to air quotes normal and all of a sudden you have a bunch of people again, they're like, Nah, don't like it. And it's for entirely different reasons. And the dissatisfaction reasons may be the same, but we're in a different point in time now. It's like it's like then I don't want to speak for all employers. I'm certainly not doing that. But it's like they went back to like, okay, this is the way it was. And so we're going to bring it back to the way it was, except, you know, you can't unring the bell like the bell got wrong and things and the world moved and it changed. And expectations for employees had changed. And some of these employers naturally didn't like the fact that they were giving up control and are trying to get it back. And now people like, No, I like it, except a lot of them do work remotely now. They do have the ability to not have to say, I don't want to grind it out five days a week. That's the way we did it before. That's what we're going to do. And they're like, Then you're going to be doing it without me before. [00:18:23][65.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:18:23] Times are the never again times. Okay, people, let's be real. [00:18:27][3.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:18:27] Absolutely. [00:18:27][0.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:18:28] Let's stop talking about the before times right or thing I think we should address here and that is that a verbatim response that HPR saw enough that they included in the summary was my work is dominating my life and I sacrifice myself or my family to get things done. That is so like 20, 20, 2019, if not, those days are behind us. But yeah, there even when you look at job descriptions right now for job postings, things, the scope of one position, the expectations of what people are being expected to cover it now it looks like one and a half, sometimes two jobs. That's unrealistic. You can try that for a cost cutting measure, but it's pretty much guaranteed that the wear and tear, I guess, on the employees mental capacity, you know, to sustain that amount of work and valued work and pace of work, they're going to break and you're not going to get any of what you need. So maybe you rethink how much you put into one position and the expectations that are behind that. It's definitely a no win situation. So when people get there, they're just going to jump as fast as they can. And frankly, I think those are the people who are quitting who don't have a position in hand because they feel like they have no alternative because the impact is so bad, maybe on their own health or on their family life. So you should be able to see those figures as they are appearing. And again, you know, through the one on ones, through taking care of people, being, you know, empathetic in the way that you lead. Keeping your eyes out for that would help you avoid the exorbitant costs and the impacts of someone leaving the organization, especially someone who is, you know, super key to the success of a department. So keep your eyes and ears open and ask pay attention, be empathetic and don't. Overload one job position. Those are really proactive things that you can take. [00:20:21][112.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:20:21] But it really is it speaks volumes, doesn't it, When you hear the old, you know, analogy, bird and hand, you know, the job, the job, you have easier to find another job when you have a job. And can you imagine that there's dissatisfaction some people might have if they're like, I got to go, but you don't have another job. Yeah, but I got to go. That speaks volumes highly. [00:20:39][18.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:20:40] It absolutely does. But don't get to that point. Another another stressor or sorry flag to look out for is boredom. If you're not giving folks enough challenge, enough new enough, interesting. You know, you got to you got to take like, you know, your fruits and vegetables with your McDonald's. Right. So there's a balance in everything. So make sure that they're not getting bored because when they're bored, that's when they're susceptible to someone they used to work with, you know, a former mentor perhaps, or a former boss who's gone on to a great gig elsewhere, reaching out and saying, Hey, what are you doing these days? Let's talk. I've got a pretty interesting position open on my team and I think you'd be great for it. They're going to take that. Yeah. You know, the lure that dangle, they're going to bite on that hook so fast if they're bored. So keep your eyes out for boredom. Right. And always be kind of looking at the, you know, the assignments that folks have, the projects that they're responsible for as a really healthy mix of the necessary and the challenging and interesting that excite them. You got to both. [00:21:43][62.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:21:43] Absolutely. Absolutely. And and we're it's easy to identify the problem and now I think we need to kind of give people some ideas about how employees or employers can combat the mass exodus and also how employees can find resources to help them should they be part of this great resignation to point out. [00:22:03][20.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:22:03] Okay. And thanks for pushing me in that direction because, you know, sometimes I just go off. [00:22:07][4.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:22:08] Knowing all your information is awesome. No, it's all good. [00:22:11][3.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:22:12] You're the best. Okay. So we're talking about combating this mass or another mass exodus, which is here. It's happening already. So let's catch up fast. Check out your compensation and benefits if you can make sure that they're still really competitive, you know, to the best of your ability. And if you can't give a huge raise right now, try and bacon other things that maybe are less expensive that you haven't offered before, like add another dimension to your health benefits if you can. That's a lot cheaper and it's something that you pay out in increments versus or a bonus to retain them or, you know, giant pay hike. Those things are far more expensive. So just look at your whole benefits package for places where you could kind of make it a little bit more enticing and interesting. So that's one thing that you can do. You can also prioritize career development. So this almost speaks to the boredom in a way, but more so it demonstrates that you feel that you're that you highly value the individual employee when you know I know you're interested in adding. I'll give an example on my team. One person is a little less experienced and is deeply interested in expanding their skillset into the paid advertising realm. Digital in digital marketing, that is not something that's currently within the job description. But you know what? Because we heard that we're creating a pathway to developing that skill set. It's not like, you know, more than a couple percentage points of their overall time at the moment, but it's something that we keep reflecting back because it's important that people hear that you heard them and that you're helping them create that path forward so that they can add to their their skill set toolbox, if you will. [00:23:53][101.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:23:54] And I got to say to so much of what I do in Rob Johnson Communications, I am I have I have work in so many different areas because other companies have prioritized the career development. They've said, listen, you need to be a better communicator. You need to do better on your presentations, you need to do better in public speak, whatever the case is. And that's why I have work. And so I'm not trying to turn on me. What I'm trying to do is is drive home the point that career development matters, that you may be technically good at your job, but if you don't have some of those other skills, you may not move up in your job. [00:24:24][30.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:25] Yeah. So help people do that, help them become better. And that's an investment that they will highly value and it will honestly, if you do it right, help them stay at your organization and contribute to your organization even more. So that's a great thing to do. So think about that just as, you know, not broadly, but individualized people on your team, what are they told you it. If you don't know, go find out. What do they want to do in terms of adding skills to their skill set toolbox. Another thing, you know, employee recognition. If you're not currently honoring, acknowledging, thanking people for the things that they're doing for the success of your organization, do that more often. Do it in authentic and meaningful ways, not lip service and just amp that up. Gratitude leads to the most positive feelings imaginable and the best income. You've ever seen. So the more you express it, the more people fear it about themselves, the better they're going to feel about their job. That's also free and easy. Be more flexible. I know we just talked about organizations that are saying get your butts back to the home office. Right? That's that's okay. But if you're going to do that, then also try to be more flexible to maybe add another day or two of sick time so that they can get to doctor's appointments when doctor's offices are open, their regular, you know, annual check ups and things that are really hard to schedule. Just be more flexible. Let people have a little more time so that they can get the things done so that their lives don't feel so unmanageable. That's a big tip. [00:25:56][91.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:25:57] And then and let me let me just jump on that for a real quick second. The person that was saying everybody should be back in the office five days a week was also lamenting the fact that they have a hybrid work schedule, three days in the office. And he said nobody should ever be going to the doctor to 2:00 on a Tuesday. If you have Monday and Friday to. [00:26:13][16.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:14] I can't I can't even I can't even do how hard it is to get appointments like because. [00:26:17][3.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:18] It's like. [00:26:18][0.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:19] I'm in touch with reality. You're never going to retain employees. [00:26:21][2.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:22] I'm just telling you, anecdotal reality is here. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying it's wrong. This was an action item. This was an actual conversation I had. [00:26:30][8.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:30] Yes. Again, be more empathetic and be more flexible. Don't be like whoever it was Rob talking about. Yeah. And lastly, the strengthening of leadership in your overall culture. So, you know, double down on your values and really live them and make sure that your people who are in leadership positions in your organization are emblematic. They reflect your values and that they have been given the support to advance and evolve as leaders. Leaders of today, leaders who understand the work environment, the life environment, the world environment and can lead accordingly. [00:27:07][36.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:27:08] Good stuff. I want to I just want to revert back quickly to the Harvard Business Review, the article that you were referencing, why employees Quit, and you had some really good color around that. The article right after that one was turned employee feedback into action. And it speaks to having, you know, what you can do to appease employees. And there were several things I'm only going to read one of them, which is make ensure make sure employees feel heard. You may not take direct action on what they brought to you, but the fact that they're hearing you, the fact that they know that they have a safe space to go and to bring up a concern, share ideas, whatever the case is, you may not solve all their problems, but the fact that you look like you want them to be heard and what they say that comes out of their mouth has value that goes a long way. So I want to point that out. It's in the same HPR from November December 20th, 24. [00:28:00][51.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:00] And we'll include these in the show notes. Everybody is just so you. [00:28:03][2.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:28:03] Know, or SWE will And you know what else we should include in the show notes? I was just recently Don Eyler Donahoe who is a previous guest on. [00:28:11][8.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:11] This Yeah I've done. [00:28:13][1.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:28:13] E career coaching.com. Yeah had he had a he's a resource for people who are changing their careers and he was talking about white quitting by firing quiet layoffs. We're talking about the great resignation. They're all related. And he was like listen, you're in that position again for whatever reason. And, you know, I can be a resource. So we're not sitting here trying to just focus on one person. But since I just saw that recently. [00:28:35][22.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:36] I was even just following him on LinkedIn. He has some great content, great content. [00:28:40][3.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:28:40] He's very, very active. Don Alert. Well, we'll we'll put it in the show notes. Yeah, we'll put. [00:28:45][4.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:45] His profile on there. [00:28:45][0.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:28:46] It was right before we were going to tape this episode and I was like, this speaks to exactly what employees who may be between jobs are thinking about between being between jobs can do to strengthen their position in the interview process in the workplace. So so we were talking about how employers can sort of mitigate this potentially, you know, lost brainpower of people that may want to get out of your organization. But what can you do as an employee if you're thinking about being part of that great resignation and finding the next thing is? [00:29:17][30.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:29:17] Yeah, for sure. And I just want to highlight the bit that you said about, you know, asking for input, getting the input, reflecting that you heard the feedback, you know, in and of itself is an act of affirmation that helps people feel better, no doubt about it. But underscoring that just because they say it doesn't mean you have to do it. That's really important for leaders to hear, too. [00:29:39][21.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:29:39] Well, yeah, and that was the point I was making earlier, was you don't have to explain everything, just not to your attention. Yeah. No, no, it's. It's. I heard you. It's that I hear what you're saying. I mean, that that has. You know, that it has such great value. [00:29:51][11.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:29:52] Yeah, it's just fascinating because I've heard that a few times recently, and it's just a good reminder. But the just the act of asking for the input and the acknowledging of it is is powerful and has great benefit just in and of itself. Whether you say the input is I want to health club membership or we want a health club on site, maybe you don't have the money for that and that's okay, but maybe you could offer online. Courses or online yoga once a week. You know, there's always something that you could do that you'd say, I heard you and we can't go that far, but here's something that we could do. What do you think of that? [00:30:25][33.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:30:26] So it's almost like a negotiation, really. It's like, they they budged off of whatever they were on. So I made some progress. [00:30:32][6.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:30:33] Yeah. And you respected your individual or your collective or whatever the case of employees by showing them that they were hurt. So that's really what it's about, communication, guys, at the end of the day, which is what the show is really all about. [00:30:46][13.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:30:46] That's why we that's why we do this. [00:30:48][1.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:30:48] If those lines of communication open actively, if you're not asking, you're not listening and you won't be able to adapt. So ask, ask, ask and listen more than you talk. [00:30:59][10.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:30:59] That's excellent advice all the time. [00:31:01][1.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:31:01] We hear it all the time. [00:31:02][0.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:31:02] We do indeed. Well, that's a lot to digest. We know and again, we're going to provide some of these resources in the in the show notes to be of use to all of you that are listening. And that's going to do it for another edition of Can you Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson. If you want to weigh in on the podcast or give us an idea for a topic, because people do a lot and we pursue them, please contact us at our Can You Hear Me podcast page on LinkedIn? [00:31:26][23.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:31:26] And I'm Eileen Rochford. If you like what you heard, please think about giving us a review of our show wherever you get your podcasts, maybe Apple, Spotify, etc. as your reviews help other listeners find our show. And we appreciate all of you. Thanks for listening. We hope you learn something today. [00:31:26][0.0]
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