The PR, Marketing and Communications worlds have undergone significant changes over the years, and with AI and other technologies, the future is uncertain. Join “Can You Hear Me?” co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson as they interview longtime master communicator Ron Culp about “The Future of Marketing and Communications from a 40-Year Industry Veteran.”
The PR, Marketing and Communications worlds have undergone significant changes over the years, and with AI and other technologies, the future is uncertain. Join “Can You Hear Me?” co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson as they interview longtime master communicator Ron Culp about “The Future of Marketing and Communications from a 40-Year Industry Veteran.”
Meet Our Guest: Ron Culp
Prior to joining DePaul and becoming an independent public relations consultant, Ron Culp held senior public relations positions at four Fortune 500 corporations and two major agencies. Ron’s career spans a broad range of communications responsibilities in government and industry sectors including business-to-business, consumer products, pharmaceutical, and retailing.
Previously, Ron was a corporate officer and senior vice president, of public relations and government affairs, at Sears. Earlier in his corporate career, he held senior communications positions at Sara Lee Corporation, Pitney Bowes, and Eli Lilly.
Ron and his DePaul colleague Matt Ragas are co-authors of business-focused books for PR professionals entitled "Business Essentials for Strategic Communicators" (Palgrave Macmillan, 2014) and "Business Acumen for Strategic Communicators" (Emerald 2021) and they jointly edited "Mastering Business for Strategic Communicators" (Emerald, 2018). In 2018 and 2019, Ron compiled and edited three editions of an eBook entitled, "The New Rules of Crisis Management."
Connect with Ron Culp on Linkedin!
Rob Johnson: Hello, everyone. Welcome to another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications.
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:37] And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm The harbinger Group, as you know here on can you hear me? We're devoted to discussing the issues that are near and dear to us, largely marketing, communications and leadership. And while we each came up in this comms business through varying avenues, we are all concerned about its future as well as curious about what's to come. [00:01:02][24.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:03] We certainly are now. Over the years, the marketing and communications fields have evolved dramatically, transitioning from traditional methods like print advertisements and broadcast media to digital platforms and data driven strategies. The advent of the internet and social media has revolutionized the way businesses connect with consumers, allowing for targeted advertising, personalized messaging, and real time engagement. So we want this to kind of set the stage for what we believe will be a fascinating discussion today. [00:01:34][31.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:35] Because joining us today to talk a little bit about the past, but more importantly, what lies ahead is communications experts and 40 year PR industry veteran Ron Culp. Welcome, Ron. [00:01:48][13.4]
RON CULP: [00:01:50] Hey thanks, guys. It's great to be joining you today. [00:01:52][2.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:54] Well, we are just thrilled to have you here. It is quite an honor. You are easily one of the most accomplished, networked and respected PR professionals in the country, and particularly here in Chicagoland and the Midwest, though no doubt I know you'd be pretty humble and selfless. You would not necessarily say that yourself. So just let me say that for you to set the stage for our listeners. [00:02:17][23.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:18] And can I say this about a friend of mine he got I got to know him when I was going through my transition, leaving the other business and pivoting to this. And he was one of the great gentlemen that said, hey, yeah, I'll meet with you and we'll talk about different things and I'll give you some ideas. So, Ron, you know, I'm eternally grateful for that time that we spent together when I was at a very vulnerable, part and, you know, in my career. And you really gave me some wonderful advice. [00:02:41][23.6]
RON CULP: [00:02:42] Well, thank you. It's comments like that, kind of help explain why I do what I do. [00:02:47][5.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:02:48] The selfless right. [00:02:50][1.3]
RON CULP: [00:02:50] There. I have to make sure my wife listens to this podcast. [00:02:52][2.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:54] Did you hear all the nice things they were saying about me? [00:02:56][1.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:02:56] Right. It's good we're getting that in at the beginning. So she's right, you know, right away understand how great you are. [00:03:01][5.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:03:02] Of course. [00:03:02][0.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:03:03] So how about we start our discussion today, Ron, by having you give us a snapshot into your professional past, things like where you worked, what fields you worked in because, you know, you kind of were in a couple roles. You held things, you did what you learned along the way. I'm asking you to do this because first, I think that our listeners really need to understand the depth and diversity of your experience as context as we move into this discussion. So that sounds good. [00:03:31][28.0]
RON CULP: [00:03:32] Sounds good. Where do I start? I guess I should start by saying I've enjoyed a fun, eclectic career. You know, over the 40 plus years my friends, I've worked in almost every industry possible from media, government, corporate agency and academia. I'd like to say my career was planned or my career path was planned, but it wasn't. Like many boomers, I started as a newspaper reporter and ended up in public relations after a couple of years. Then I began, a career in government drawn because of your media relations experience, and having worked for a newspaper, they assume you can write and you can communicate with people in the profession. And the people following the the candidate. So I worked in government jobs in Indiana, in New York for, probably ten, 15 years, before I finally was, recruited into my first corporate communications role. And I followed the corporate career for most of my time working, and at four different fortune 500 companies, also in a wide span of, fields Eli Lilly, Pitney Bowes, Sara Lee and Sears. After the demise of Sears began about 20 years ago, I found my way to the agency world, where I opened the Chicago office of Sarver Bidding, which was a major financial communications agency, and did that for a while and then moved over to a more consumer oriented, agency. Ketchum and I headed their Chicago office and their North American corporate practice for several years. So now, after maybe after a dozen years doing the agency scene, I spent the past 14 years teaching at DePaul University. And I'd be remiss not saying that I've enjoyed each and every job some a little bit more than others, but it's certainly been a career adventure. [00:05:54][142.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:56] Oh, it's so impressive. I would love to hear you tell us a little bit more about what was the newsroom like when you were there, because, I mean, it just, you know, you hear these fantastic stories about that era, and I'd love to hear a little bit of color from you about what was that newsroom experience like when you were just starting out? [00:06:14][18.8]
RON CULP: [00:06:15] Well, I walked in like a lot of, college journalism students thinking that I was God's gift to the newsroom. And day one, I wrote up a story. And back then, you know, you're writing, you're still writing on Selectric typewriters and submitting stories on yellow paper. And so I, I typed up my story, I did my interview, and I turn it into the news editor, John Rutherford. And a few seconds later, all of a sudden, I hit the side of the head, with a lot of paper. And I looked down and the article I just wrote and he said, rewrite it, culp. Where did you learn to write? The lead is in paragraph seven. Yeah, I, I hated that man until all of a sudden getting a lot of that kind of feedback and education and training, all of a sudden I did become a good writer. I certainly wasn't when I walked in the door. And he for, well, do it. And he turned me into it. So I loved that aspect. The camaraderie, the beats that you were assigned were all just so interesting. And I'm interested in almost any topic. So they gave me politics and government and education and the police beat. So I was just having the time of my life. I, I thought at the time, and I still kind of do think that it's the best job I've ever had. [00:07:52][96.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:07:54] Were there any memorable stories in particular that you covered that stand out for you? [00:07:58][4.3]
RON CULP: [00:07:59] Oh, gosh. Tragically, one of, in our in our circulation area, a, grandparents and their grandchildren were coming home from a shopping spree and got, they got into an auto accident. All four of them were killed. Well, wouldn't you know, it was from my hometown. And so the news editor said, hey, you're from Remington, Indiana, aren't you? Here's what's happened. And I actually knew, the people. And so I said, yeah, they said, go up, talk to the family and get pictures. It was the most nerve wracking experience in my life. I was terrified. And so I get there. There's no one at home, but the neighbor sees me. The neighbor lets me in their house. And there it is on the television. A photo that they just received from Olin Mills Photography. The grandparents and the two kids. I took it out of the frame, left a note, and the neighbor said, I'll cover for you, but I think they'd want you to have it. And when that story appeared, my heart was just bleeding for the fact that did I really do some violation of, journalistic standards or whatever? And then, sure enough, I get a phone call from the parents of the children saying, bless you all for this remembrance. It was so powerful for the entire family to have this kind of closure. And I thought, wow, I, and I, like I said, I was a nervous wreck, but it it turned out fine. And, and I drive by their house occasionally when I go home and I, I still think about that, that story. And I get cold chills. [00:09:53][113.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:09:54] Well, I gotta tell you, that was one of my least favorite things about the TV job or the journalism job in general. Having to go to that house, having to talk to grieving people that are grieving having to ask for a picture. And, you know, I've known more than 1 or 200 people who've gotten out of the business because they just weren't cut out for it. They hated that. And I hated it, too. But it was like, all right, it's part of my job. And for them to respond the way they did to your your article speaks volumes about the compassion that you have. Because you can't teach compassion. You know, that's not they don't have that in journalism school. You know, empathy. Where's the empathy class? Yeah. They don't they don't teach that you either have it or you don't. You're either a a caring person or you're not. And to honor them. And that's how I remember when I would have to go do those things and say, hey, we want to honor them. You know, if you give us the more information you can give us, the better story we're going to tell. And that sounds like. Exactly. You know what you did because you're trying to honor them in some way, you know, after they have passed. So kudos to you. [00:10:57][63.0]
RON CULP: [00:10:57] Felt like, you know. Yeah. [00:10:58][1.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:10:59] Oh, my. What a story. [00:11:00][0.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:11:01] So so before we dive into PR, I the newsroom stories. So so here it is. You I thought you were going to say I had to do that story. And I realized I just didn't want to do it. And then I moved on to PR. But it sounds like you did a great job, writing articles and, and and, you know, advancing in the newsroom and that sort of thing. So what was it at that point in your life that made you say, you know, maybe, maybe this thing, maybe I don't want to do this on a daily basis. Was there something that led you to that? [00:11:37][36.0]
RON CULP: [00:11:39] And it is really interesting. Like I said, I was loving my job and I got to cover just some of the most interesting stories, and it's the first time I started meeting important political figures that I had to cover. Jason Miller happened to be in Columbus, Indiana, and he was a big funder of of, Republican or liberal candidates like John Lindsay. And he would often have them come to town. And so he would invite the local reporter, me. And so I met a bunch of political figures and was, quite frankly, quite impressionable back then. And, and, really thought this political thing is really pretty interesting. And I was involved in politics on the, college level, but this was a whole different, scope, you know, like I'd be invited up to, to, Fort Wayne, Indiana wants to spend some time with Nixon when he was, running for president a second term. And, you know, I kind of got fascinated with it. And then one day, a friend of mine from, who was happened to be the speaker of the House and in Illinois, Indiana, which I was his intern. At one point he called and said, hey, I understand your work in the newspaper, but hey, would you think about getting, you know, taking a political job, which is mostly writing, being a press secretary to to the majority leader of the Indiana House, who happens to be running for U.S. Congress. And so I said, well, I'd consider it. They told me the salary substantially more than my journalism experience. Yeah. What the difference is, at least that was steady income because we I went to work for him and then we lost the election and then I had no income. [00:13:30][111.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:13:31] Oh no. Yeah. That's the downside. [00:13:32][1.4]
RON CULP: [00:13:33] So so what do you do? A consultant a consultant said, hey, you're going to want to get out of Indiana for a while. So why don't you come out to New York and work for the speaker of the Assembly and and basically, you're running the PR department, for the, New York State Assembly. I was a kid, and it was a it was a sizable job. And it was so much fun. And again, Perry Drury was just a great, speaker, and entrusted me with, a lot of, trust that that really turned out to, to be, you know, quite shaping of my career and making my move from journalism. Not as risky as I thought it was going to be when I was unemployed for about four months. [00:14:22][49.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:14:24] That four months seems like forever. 2000 and. [00:14:26][1.9]
RON CULP: [00:14:26] Oh, my. I have to do. Yeah. [00:14:27][1.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:14:29] Oh, my gosh, it sounds like, you know, you just have this knack for getting to know good people and staying connected, and that am I, am I right in kind of I noticing that that helped you along the way in these pivots. Right. [00:14:44][14.3]
RON CULP: [00:14:44] I can tell you that, I wish if this were visual, I'd show you the Rolodex that I have. Still have the old one still have it, even though, you know, I am using, online, but the old one is just too much of a treasure. And it was, it was filled with people that sometimes I still refer back to it that who, you know, wonder where those people are today, and I drop them a note. [00:15:11][26.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:15:12] Oh that's great. What a nice practice. [00:15:14][1.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:15:16] Very smart and like the old school Rolodex. And now it's a lot easier. Back then it was like, was Mr. Jones? Yeah. I mean, they moved. [00:15:23][7.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:15:24] I don't have their address, so they. [00:15:25][0.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:15:25] So I know. Yeah, that was like four numbers ago. What? [00:15:29][3.3]
RON CULP: [00:15:29] Yeah, exactly. [00:15:30][0.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:15:31] We know Ron, you could handle just about any question, especially with that distinguished background and these amazing stories that we've kind of, you know, you know, had you give a little more color to because they're fascinating to us. But let's start with a fairly simple, at least I think it is, question. And that is so you leave government and then you're starting to do the agency stuff. What was PR when you got into it? And what is PR today? How different were the two from all those years when you started to now? [00:16:04][33.2]
RON CULP: [00:16:05] Well, it is night and day. I guess simply put that over the past four decades, public relations has evolved from essentially helping organizations share, their news, if you will, with major stakeholders. Today is all about helping those organizations make things happen. So it's both within the organization. Outside the organization. So. Talk about a seat at the table. It's it's absolutely incredible what's happened. So thanks to my having been, as you noted, in all the right places at the right times. Certainly not by planning. I had the privilege of knowing and working with five of the greatest architects, if you will. I call it the golden age of a public relations. These were the leading thought leaders. There are way ahead of everyone else. They were still doing the simple, the basic things that blocking a tackling that was expected of them. But it was leaders like Dan Edelman, Harold Burson, Al Golin and David Finn and Betsy Plank who was all in, were great mentors. And I learned and I could talk about each of them for hours. But, you know, they they individually helped shape my career and helped me better understand what it takes to make that move from public relations to, just being an order taker, if you will, writing the news release, getting it published and answering media inquiries that then you run up the poll to being an actual communications strategist. So that's what that's what I learned from them. And if you have a second, I can I can be a little more specific about how I learned the stages, public relations evolution from, from one of these guys. [00:18:11][126.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:18:12] Oh, please tell us. [00:18:13][1.5]
RON CULP: [00:18:14] Well, I. [00:18:15][0.9]
RON CULP: [00:18:15] I was at the Arthur Page Society as a group of senior public relations people globally that that meet a couple of times a year. And it's a pretty prestigious organization. And I happen to come in as a fairly young member. And a couple of these, people took me under their wings, including one of them, Harold Burson, the late Harold Burson. And Harold really helped me figure out what you really want to aspire to. If you want one of those senior jobs that exist in communications, not everyone wants them, but I thought it'd be kind of cool to run communications for some major companies. And so Harold's point was that the three stages of evolution of PR had been. It starts with. Back to what I was just talking about. How do I say it? You know, people just saying, hey, I want to I want to say the following things. How do I say it? How do I get it out kind of thing? And then they come back to what do I say? So that's the next step up. It's subtle, but it's very real in the fact that it goes further than taking orders. It's saying, I want you to tell me how I should say this, and then this is the moment. This is when the bells and whistles go off, that you're a strategic communications executive within a major company when they ask you. What do I do? Here's the problem. Help us solve that. What do I do? So those are the three. And I remember vividly making the move from each of those steps career wise. And usually at some point you have to get permission from the CEO you're working for to make the move to the next one. And it wasn't until, one of the greatest bosses I've ever worked for, Arthur Martinez, who was, at Sears during the last glory days, and that that organization. And it was one day that, you know, Arthur, you know, I'm on the senior staff and I'm there. And he asked me a question. He ask everyone a question. And he then called me, and afterwards he said, you know, I love the fact you defer to these other senior people. But when I asked that question, I expected you to be the person who tells me what to do because you know what they're all thinking. And you can you can make it, in the context of how I need to be given that kind of information. And I trust you, you know. And so he gave me the authority to step up to the plate and then really become the strategic communicator that that I at least aspired to be. [00:21:18][182.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:20] Oh. That's amazing. Thank you. Great story. Do you mind selfishly, if I ask for any, recollections or experiences that you had with Al Golin? And one of my very favorite people on earth. Although, he's not anymore. But when he was, he certainly was one of my favorite people. [00:21:36][16.6]
RON CULP: [00:21:37] Al Golin. Oh, I said yes. I'd say one point that, and it touches a little bit of work life balance. In my first year of teaching. I decided to kind of do that. You know, have a little informal conversation with senior leaders of the profession. So I asked Al if he would come and we'd sit on stage in comfortable chairs and we'd talk about his career and everything. He said, fine. And and, he brought along, June, who is a dear friend. So, Al and I are having a good conversation. The students are really engaging in it. I'm in total awe that he's just so open and and, one of the things he talks about is how he was so focused on his business and on the needs of Ray Kroc, McDonald's, their biggest client, that he missed a lot of things he shouldn't have missed. In his family's life. And and that was his biggest regret. And it stuck with me. To to to a large extent, the fact that I tried to be there for the major things in my children's lives. And my wife says, you were there when it counted. And, and because I, I worked a lot, but I was so touched with how he was candidly discussing it. I said, okay, there's an extra chair up here, June, why don't you join us? And better yet, our introducer. So al introduced her and she just from the heart, talked about, you know, how they survived this demand on his life as he was starting the agency and how difficult it was and trying to achieve that balance. And they were such a lovely couple. That that I just kind of made them, role models that, except the part of working 24 seven, I didn't quite go there fully a couple of times in my life, but he, he and she were just just absolutely such a great team and and, just, just loving couple that I admire greatly. [00:24:09][152.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:11] Great people. I'm so. Grateful for. That was the first place that I worked, and he literally was six doors down from where I worked. And being able to see him every single day when he was in the office and the wisdom that he shared. I'll never forget any of it. And that work life balance aspects. Absolutely. I, I don't think, you know, being 22, when I first started working at golin and I understood, well, why would you need that? Because I had no other obligations, really. You know, it was the job was fun, the people that were my life. But that changed. And when it changed, what he had to say made total sense. And I paid very close attention to it. [00:24:54][43.1]
RON CULP: [00:24:54] Well, it is the kind of guy is, as you know, late in his life. I mean, right up until he passed, Al would be in the office almost every day, and he just made a point of kind of being the internal cheerleader for the the whole team. And I sent him a note saying, oh, by the way, one of my students has just gotten hired as an intern. I'd get a I'd get an email from the student about. Half an hour later. Guess who stopped by my desk? The other interns are totally melting in disbelief. Oh. [00:25:34][40.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:25:35] So jealous. [00:25:35][0.3]
RON CULP: [00:25:36] Yeah, well. But he said a lot. All of them. They said, you know, I just wanted to, you know, stop and say hello and glad you're here. [00:25:42][5.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:25:43] Oh my gosh. [00:25:43][0.4]
RON CULP: [00:25:44] He just. Was that kind of a people person. He and I. One other story. If you have a chance, please. To a former boss's funeral. Bob Lauer at Surly Corporation. Really great guy. And when, when he died. It is tragic and sudden and and, his wife at the funeral gets up and just simply says, I want every man here to go out and get a colonoscopy and have a PSA test. And al asked me, he and I were sitting next to each other and al said, have you had one? I said, no. I said, Think I'm going to schedule it. He said, me too. We both were diagnosed with prostate cancer at the same time. Wow. [00:26:30][46.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:31] I did not know that I knew of his diagnosis. [00:26:32][1.7]
RON CULP: [00:26:33] His was his was unfortunately more advanced and mine was cut. I hope, in the nick of time. That was 14 years ago. So, he, that's that story was, was one that I just thought, you know, he I you really feel like you've gone through something with a friend when you're kind of both going through something like that? [00:26:56][23.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:57] Oh, yeah. Well, I appreciate you sharing that. And I really hope my husband is listening, because I have asked him to do that five times, and he doing what he will now. [00:27:07][9.6]
RON CULP: [00:27:07] And he did it with such class and positivity. I'm sure it's why he lived far longer than they thought he would. Yeah. It's just it's just part of the attitude that he brought to everything he did. [00:27:17][9.9]
RON CULP: [00:27:19] You know, I had I had two of my dearest friends, a high school friend and a college friend die of colon cancer at very young ages. So that's something that I always prioritized. But and now it's at the age with prostate and everything else, it's like you just have to do it. So I think you're we're sitting here talking about marketing and communications, but that advice that you just gave is so important for people to hear because it is important. And you're like, oh, I guess I'll do it. Do I have to? And the answer's yes. You do. [00:27:45][26.3]
RON CULP: [00:27:45] Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. If we've achieved nothing today, just as Bob Lauer's wife did that day, then to have two friends go out and do it. This podcast was well worth our time today. [00:27:59][13.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:00] Yeah. And thank you for sharing. That's the. That's the beauty of. Well, you're selfless in that respect yet again, so thank you. Do you mind if we take this in a in a direction? Talking a little bit about, you know, where things are going in this industry. Does that feel like a good. Place to go next. [00:28:21][21.1]
RON CULP: [00:28:23] Sure ,good. [00:28:23][0.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:24] Okay, so we've got a lot of technological advances, and we know that all of us as professionals, we have to pay really close attention to all of that. Stay up on the latest trends, and the tools not just to remain competitive, but to just be valuable and smart and, in my opinion, to continue to enjoy doing what we do. That, you know, that insatiable curiosity is something we talk about a lot on the show. And this is an industry where if you remain open and curious, you can always, you know, continue to do great things. So what I'm wondering about about is. With all of this change that you've witnessed in your very rich and storied career, and what you see happening right now, which I think all of us recognize, we're at another inflection point in the world and in our industry, much like the one that I witnessed when I walked in the door 30 years ago. What what do you think the big shifts are going to be, Ron, in the next five years? And I and I also really want to have you share with us, since you're talking to students so often, what do you think? You know, the skills are that are going to be the most important as those shifts. come upon us. [00:29:37][73.4]
RON CULP: [00:29:38] Okay. Where do I start? I mean, I think we're just we're just, scratching the surface, are getting previews of coming attractions that are going to have dramatic impact on what's happening in our profession. And I'd say there are three seismic shifts that are coming. They're already here, but some people have not yet embraced them. So I'd say the first one being around technology, it's nearly impossible for me to keep up. But I try to. And I find that students have a difficulty keeping up, with with it, but I just can't underscore it enough. And we just have to really focus on the fact that everything happening now in communications and in a public relations field, somebody, usually the CEO or the chief marketing officer, is going to want to see data and analytics that inform your decision. You know, when when I started, it was, hey, gut is going to is going to make the decision here. And I'm going to show you impressions, you know, from what happened away when we got in the newspaper or on television or whatever. So you're going to the old the old standby stuff, which today you're laughed out of the room with that. They're actually saying, if I invest this, how much am I going to see in return? So you've got to support that with data. And so we have to really see people embracing that more and, and and really using that kind of, of information. Now of course AI I would put into that category as well artificial intelligence in the fact that, some people are downright terrified that it's going to replace them. And I say, that's why you have to, get ahead of it. And you have to you have to figure out how to use it to your advantage. So I find that that by embracing the technology, getting to know and how to use it makes you indispensable in any organization. So that would be one. Two. For one of the recent books that I did with my colleague Matt Regas, we surveyed, chief communications officers all over the globe. And we we basically asked them what's changed in the profession. What do they insist now from people that they hire? And when we first started, even just ten years ago, it was writing. We want to make sure we hire people who can write. And sometimes I kind of give up on that. But for the most part, a lot of people are getting by in that front. But the one thing that they said, number one on the list is business acumen. I want them to understand what drives this company, how this company makes money, how how revenue is generated and why it's important, you know, to society. So we're going to do that by having a better understanding of business. So that was my second point. And then third which I just can't get. Young people understand is the importance of internal communications. The number one. Search that I'm currently hearing from all the recruiters I talk to and I talk to many every week, is, can you send us candidates for this internal communications job that we know we have open? And I get blank stares from students because they want for the most part. Hey, I was one of those, people I want to consumer and the and the more fun, sexier things and, in in in communications events, maybe I want to go into sports marketing or whatever. And I'm saying, I'm telling you, if you want a golden career for the first time and this has happened now, evolved over the past five, maybe seven years, CEOs have discovered internal communications. And that if you want the troops to follow you, you have to better communicate with them. And we just are lacking with effective internal communicators in, in most organizations. And it is really a hot area in our profession right now. And it's going to be that way for the next ten years. [00:34:27][289.7]
RON CULP: [00:34:29] I love that you just said that, because that's that's the conversation I had with so many of my clients. Because the sexy stuff you're talking about, the going to market. Let's tell everybody how great we are. We're awesome. And I'm always like, can we back that up? Can we all have an internal discussion? Can you sell this internally? Can you all talk about yourselves in a coherent way? Uniform way. And everybody's kind of like, yeah, yeah, let's get to the fun stuff. Yeah. But if you don't do that part of it, if you don't do that part of it, you're never going to get to the fun stuff and have a message is going to resonate with anybody. If you don't get buy in, and if you don't get it, you're not selling it internally before you go to the masses. So I just say kudos for that part. [00:35:13][43.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:35:15] May I follow up? Real quick. What do you think is or what drove this awakening amongst CEOs that. That internal comms is so critical to the success of the organization. What do you think happened? [00:35:29][14.7]
RON CULP: [00:35:30] Well, in in my gut, I do some consulting on the side and, and, several of my clients are former CEOs. And at one point we were having this discussion and there was a moment and he said, where were you when I was CEO? And I said, you'd still be CEO if you if you knew Brian because you were not focused on getting the team behind you and you you were a great leader and you were highly respected in, in the industry. But when you tried to move this giant international company, you know, the there wasn't a coherent understanding of what you were trying to do. You kept thinking that the individual silos were all going to line up somehow magically. And and the communications, it was more like war zones rather than, the same corporation. And you just need to make sure, because, that, that you have understanding and appreciation for what are we trying to do here and get the buy in of your employees? Employees follow their number one. We did we did a in several companies I worked for. But at Sears, we did a, a survey of all of the store employees. And we said, who is the CEO of Sears? And it was Arthur Martinez. So we get the results back. And Arthur came up at about 12% of the surveys. And so I took the news to him and I said, we really got to do something to raise your visibility. And he said, well, who came in number one? I said, the store managers. He said, bingo, it's working. [00:37:18][108.2]
RON CULP: [00:37:20] Yeah. [00:37:20][0.0]
RON CULP: [00:37:22] He said, they're good. They're going to take the lead from the person nearest them. And I want them to think he's the CEO. And that's how everyone has to think in an organization is make sure your management team at all levels are that they're knowledgeable and they're trained, and that the people following them view them as their leader. And when that happens, magic happens. By the way, that was the last great run of sales and earnings for Sears before it started its downfall. [00:37:54][32.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:37:56] I love that story because that's not at all how I thought it was going, how you're going to end that story. That was really fascinating that he loved it. Oh, no. Store managers. Yes. I mean, that's that's that's servant leadership, right? I mean, that's that's a CEO, right? [00:38:10][13.4]
RON CULP: [00:38:10] It was the brilliance of. He didn't he turned that, that kind of a story all the time on me. And I'm like, I'm learning so much from this guy. And I thought I was the the big deal communicator. [00:38:21][10.8]