For many professionals, getting and keeping a big-time corporate job is the epitome of business success. But what happens when executives are on the wrong end of that equation and may be forced out, or choose to leave on their own? In the latest edition of the “Can You Hear Me?” podcast, co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson welcome special guest Brett Trainor to discuss what it’s like when you’re the ‘Corporate Escapee’ and what it means to someone’s professional and personal life.
Brett is a former corporate executive with over 25 years of experience, on a mission to empower 100,000 GenX professionals to escape the 9-5 grind and find true freedom. Over four years ago, Brett successfully transitioned out of corporate life and has since dedicated himself to helping others do the same.
He has built a thriving community of over 700 corporate professionals who are on their own journeys to reclaim their autonomy and return to their roots. In addition to this community, Brett has amassed a following of over 40,000 on TikTok, where he shares insights, strategies, and support to help GenXers take control of their lives and careers.
Through his podcast, Brett provides actionable advice and shares his passion for freedom, wellness, and community. Join Brett as he helps others break free from the corporate confines and thrive on their own terms.
Rob Johnson: [00:00:17] Hello again everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. [00:00:23][6.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:24] And I'm Eileen Rochford. I'm CEO of the harbinger Group, a marketing and strategy firm. Here on can you hear me? We often are thinking of ways to help you advance in your career, help you stay at the top if you're already there, and how to pivot if your professional journey isn't giving you the satisfaction that you're looking for. [00:00:41][17.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:00:42] That's right. And today we're going to deal with the latter scenario. There Brett Trainor was in corporate America for many years, but recently founded The Corporate Escapee. That's a community and a podcast dedicated to helping Gen-X professionals escape the corporate confines and find freedom and balance. And we're lucky to have him on the podcast today. Brett, thanks for joining us. [00:01:02][19.9]
Brett Trainor: [00:01:02] It's my pleasure. I'm super thrilled to be here. I love you guys. [00:01:05][2.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:05] Thank you. [00:01:05][0.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:06] We're excited to have you, man. The feeling's mutual. [00:01:08][2.3]
Brett Trainor: [00:01:10] Before we get too far away, I can hire you to do the introduction for my podcast. That was phenominal. [00:01:14][4.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:15] That's right. You know, testing one two, testing one, two. And that's the way it is. [00:01:20][4.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:21] Doesn't hurt to have a 30 year veteran. [00:01:23][2.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:24] Flattery will get you everywhere. [00:01:24][0.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:25] Yeah, yeah, you're the best Rob. Okay, Brett. So thanks for being with us. You are a very seasoned podcaster and a professional in so many ways that we're gonna learn a ton from today. But before we dive into the concept of the corporate escapee, which I can't wait to hear all about, even though I know a little bit. Why don't you share, for our listeners, benefit from your origin story? Essentially, how did you get to this point? You know, what were the big milestones along the way and what led you here? [00:01:54][28.5]
Brett Trainor: [00:01:54] Yeah, I mean, it's we can go the four hour version or the three minutes and I'll give you the shorter version, but but essentially my entire career was in corporate, you know, 25 plus years, mostly in the B2B space, mostly in go to marketing and the service side on the small customer facing. I did have a couple of entrepreneurial ventures in that mix, but obviously not having worked well enough to keep me out of corporate that I ended up back. I was about 2015 or 2016 was my last corporate in a corporate role. Wrap that up. They wrapped me up some combination of the two, and I decided to go into management consulting, you know, and near 50 years old and like, emerging consulting sort of projects, it seems like a great idea for B2B digital transformations here. Perfect. I wouldn't recommend anybody to do that at the end of their career. That's definitely more of a young person's game. But it but it was interesting. I did that for about a year and a half and realized, it just wasn't for me anymore. I was still kind of an army of one. And what it taught me, though, was what my market value was, because I knew what they were building me out at, and I knew what I was getting paid. And a lot of the work as part of my role was to find new clients as well as some of the deliveries. So I was very comfortable in the sales aspect of it. So I just, you know, I got to that point and we probably all have, you know, you two probably have at some point you just hit that the breaking point of what am I doing. Right? Right. I was chasing the corporate ladder, climbing the corporate ladder, you know, so I can just get that my next promotion or that next real pay raise. And it just kind of hit me during that consulting phase, like, what am I doing? Am I going to do this for the next 20 years? I mean, I saw I was energized by the work, but then just realized I was working for somebody else and I just didn't know, you know, where the path was going to take me and what I want to do, do I want to be in the corporate for the next 20 years? Not a chance. But I didn't know what I was going to do. And, you know, just ended up with that cross word road where I ended up deciding to go on my own. I didn't have a plan, hindsight, have a plan. But that kind of started me down the path of a corporate escapee. [00:03:59][125.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:04:00] Did you have a client in hand when you did this, or did you just really wing it? [00:04:03][3.8]
Brett Trainor: [00:04:04] I did not we we just kind of got to the point that they wanted me to go somewhere I didn't want to travel. And we agreed to disagree. And I said, I think I can do this. And yeah, the first six months where I left was chaos. I did get some success early with a couple of clients. Right. And so you think I got this figured out? How hard is this right off? And that kind of started at my four year journey where, I still trying to figure out what I want to do when I grow up. Right. So the consulting wasn't really what I wanted to do. I stumbled into fractional leadership for small companies. If you guys have seen that more of a buzz term with fractional, did that thought about, well, I just wrapped up my last client not too long ago and then also, you know, figured out some other ways to monetize my experience. Right? Helping small brands connect with my network. Right. In return. Right. They sold something. There was a commission that was paid for it. So I think over the course of those four years, probably monetized eight different ways. And that's when the idea that there's got to be more people like me out there, because the first two years I was solo is by myself. Only a few family and friends knew it. That's just not the way to do it. So I don't know if you guys kind of went that way or you announced to the world you went solo, but I did. In hindsight, I would have definitely watched some more folks now. [00:05:16][72.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:16] Sure. Yeah, that's a great tip for our listeners. Definitely. [00:05:20][3.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:05:20] I got to tell you, to Eileen's point a second ago, to do it without a client initially to be like, because I remember I was like, hey, I may want to do this consulting thing when I made my pivot from TV. And and I did let everybody know because it was such a radical departure, and I wanted people to give me an opportunity. But I remember getting my first big client and I'm like, I think I'm going to do this. But I tell people all the time, the Mission Accomplished banner is never hung. You know, there's always there's always work to be done. [00:05:48][28.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:50] Absolutely. Yeah. And it is very difficult to go ahead on your own. No doubt about it. My path was a little different when I left corporate. I was a little younger. I was, I think 30, 31. And it was the my switch and, you know, that got flipped was motherhood. And. Yeah, it was, I don't want to commute anymore. I don't want to travel anymore. I know I can form a network of, like minded senior communication professionals who want to deliver great work for clients without all the rest of the baloney that goes on inside of, you know, larger agency environments, typically. So and we did have a couple clients. We were very fortunate. Yeah. Yeah. So that was it was different. But honestly, I would have walked out the door without the clients anyway. [00:06:36][46.0]
Brett Trainor: [00:06:37] So that's how I tell folks, if you if you're thinking about it just it's okay to start ramping up. Find that first client, even if it's pro bono and you're just going to do some coaching right there to get your feet wet because there's a and I'll stick to this. That is, at our age, or at least my age, I'm not sure how old you guys, I think. Or close down you might be a little bit younger. It's easier to find that first customer than it is your next job. And I think Don was on not too recently talking about job searches and how few positions there are layoffs and everything else that what we just don't have the confidence to go do it on our own. Because I think, you know, if I grew up Gen-X, I grew up Gen-X. We did have a ton of freedom as kids, right? As a latchkey kid. Right? Fourth grade has come home to an empty house. And I didn't have homework then, but we had to figure things out and then put into the corporate box. And I remember early in my career, I'm like, let's do this, let's do this. Go, go, go. But eventually you get put into that box and say, don't rock the boat. Right. Don't make a mistake so you don't get fired and you just start to go with the program and all of a sudden you can come back out. You have. I tell people, if someone's paying you to do a job, you can go solo. So, all right, have a plan, but you have the skill sets that small businesses absolutely need. So that's part of it. Just really that confidence right to get out there and test it. [00:07:53][75.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:07:53] I don't know if you know this, but there was also this woman, Eileen Rochford, as I was looking for the first, you know, big engagement. Yeah. Who was giving me work and did some media training and I she knows to this day I'm like, I will never forget what you did for me. What you what we continue to do for each other. But what you did for me when I was just getting into this and having somebody like that to say, yeah, you'd be great at this. And, so I just wanted to share that because that was a big part of my journey to getting some work. And, and the person that gave me that work is sitting right here on this same podcast. [00:08:28][34.5]
Brett Trainor: [00:08:29] So I just oh, that's awesome. [00:08:29][0.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:08:31] That's I should know that that's it's a principle. [00:08:32][1.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:08:33] Yes. Yes, absolutely. It's easy to recommend good people. Rob. That's all I can say. [00:08:37][3.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:08:37] Well I appreciate and I appreciate the we're still we're still here years later. So that's that's right. Awesome. So Brett, let me ask you this. When you were dissatisfied with where you were, how did you decide that you weren't just going to help yourself? You're like, okay, what am I going to do as a management consultant or whatever it was? And I know you said it wasn't a perfect fit, but how did you decide? Okay, not only am I going to help myself, but I'm going to help other people as well, because when you're making a radical change like that, because it is, you're worried about, what am I going to do? How am I going to take care of my family? How am I going to pivot to this, this new thing? But where did the corporate escapee come from? Where you're like, not only am I going to help myself, but I'm going to help others, too, and, and and be a resource for them. [00:09:22][44.8]
Brett Trainor: [00:09:22] Yeah, it's a good question. If you would have asked me this when I left, consulting or corporate, my goal was just to make more money. I'm not going to lie. I was like, you're not going to replace the money, and I want once I got into it and I got through that chaos period, right where I'll send you on your own schedule. You're doing everything the delivery, the calendar, everything. Once I finally got into routine, I realized how much more time I actually had and how much I hadn't valued that time. And corporate. Do you do the commute? I don't need you next to the commute. These things, you just give up this piece. So I had that back then. It dawned on me I got more time. What am I going to do with it? And you know, how do I better take care? So I kind of find the balance. And then I started thinking about how freeing this was for me. And I don't know if I shared this with you, but about a year after I was out, my wife and I were having a conversation, I don't know, and she's like, what the hell is the matter with you? And she was talking about when I was still in consulting. And on the surface, everything would have been fine, right? All three girls were happy, doing well in school. It was a good job. It paid well. On the surface, everything was fine. But even she could realize, you know, I was unhappy. And I didn't realize how unhappy I was until after I was out. And so is about a year and a half ago. I said, there's got to be more people like me out here, right? And so that's when I started The Corporate Escapee, a rebrand of the podcast. I've been doing it now for four and a half years, and it's gone through some iterations, but I'm like, there's got to be more folks out here like me. And you did okay, right? I had a few ad hoc folks that I was helping coach out of corporate, but there really wasn't a ton. So I like, know, maybe I am one of the few people out there. And, you know, that was really the motivation is there's got to be more people to get out. But what really opened my eyes when that happened was I started messing around. I told my daughters, I can start messing around on TikTok last November, you're like, dad, no, and I'm like, podcast bad? No, if you're going to do this. And, I just started, you know, I'm like, it's 90s to two minutes and either ranting or just sharing things. And it took off. And I can't explain why. It's not like I'm highly producer. Rob would probably look at my Tik Tok and go, cheese! And then you get it. You can be better than this. But the message resonated with people, and I think by the end of probably by the time this goes live, will be close to 40,000 people. And 80% of those folks are Gen Xers that are in corporate or just getting out of corporate. So the message here and I'm like, all right, so I'm not alone. So how do we start to mobilize everybody to to start, you know, working together to stay out of corporate, to be honest with you. [00:11:54][151.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:11:55] So what are the themes, would you say of what you're hitting when in the messages on TikTok in particular. [00:12:00][5.3]
Brett Trainor: [00:12:01] TikTok is just pointing out that, you know, what are you doing? That's right. I mean, with you look at the layoffs. There's no loyalty. This all sounds obvious from the outside, but sometimes when you're inside, you forget, right, that, hey, if I keep doing a good job and part of it is just a reminder of where are you going? Because again, when I was in corporate, I wasn't thinking two years down the road, five years down the road, it was, you know, just week over week of looking through the promotion of whatever it was and just, you know, that's the thing that hits, you know, I've got people sending me tips and when layoffs are coming in other companies. But what I found was I would always end each of the videos with, hey, come join the community. Or if you're just curious what life looks like outside of corporate, come join us. We got the community that'll help. You know, just support and educate yourself. Even if you stay in corporate 100%, fine. But what I found was people didn't realize that there was life after corporate. I think that the belief was you had to start a full on company, or build the next Google or Facebook or open a restaurant, but there's ways to monetize your experience without having to hire a bunch of employees and do those things. So it's really a combination of, you know, the current's just reminding people that, hey, corporate is not a pretty place. It's not for the faint of heart anymore, and you have other options. So it's kind of the point of those two. [00:13:17][76.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:13:18] Nice that I'm fascinated by the TikTok thing, because when we first met and you were sharing that story with me about how, yeah, I'm sure you know, the younger kids, you know, you tell your daughters, like what? I'm sure if I told my son, hey, I'm going to do that, he'd be like, what are you going to do? But but that had to be a hugely pleasant surprise that you didn't have a footprint on there, right on, on TikTok. And you were able to come and kind of introduce yourself and start giving some actionable items. You were sharing information that was useful to people in very digestible pieces like you. What I think the minute half, two minutes. Yeah. Was that surprising to you? Because when you and I were talking about it, I was like, man, TikTok, because I don't do TikTok because I always thought, that's what that's what our kids do, you know. And here you are saying, that's really where I was able to, you know, have it have to take off a little bit. [00:14:08][50.0]
Brett Trainor: [00:14:08] Yeah. It started everything. And it's funny, when I first started telling people about TikTok, I was apologizing for being like, yeah, I know it's TikTok. And I'm like, thank you so much for the way this this works. And again, it's super easy from there's no production, right? I mean, it's one take for me. I think you'll see some folks, they do multiple takes and I'm like one record I screw up in the beginning, then I'll start over. But you know what you see is what you get. But yeah, it just I think the right message at the right time was hitting people that were frustrated and the amount of time I, you know, thanks for the inspiration or seeing. Right that it is possible because I think too often we get you know, I use it like the fitness right. You get the Olympian that's telling you how you can improve your your sprinting while you're going through. I'm sorry that hadn't been working out. We're sprinting. Give me somebody that was, you know, improved you know by a year right. Or the one thing doing nothing to being able to run a half marathon. I think there's just more credibility coming from folks that are just ahead. I'm literally I'm six months ahead of all folks on TikTok. So it's not like I've been doing this for a decade. And. I haven't figured out it was the right place. Right time, I guess. [00:15:16][67.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:15:17] Well, I'm certain that the rawness that you've describes really feeds the authenticity and probably makes you know how people receive your message that much more powerful to them. So that's probably actually a big thing in your favor. [00:15:30][13.2]
Brett Trainor: [00:15:30] Yeah. It's funny, somebody told me afterwards, you know, when I started adding the cultural aspect of it. So what's not the newsie type of thing, but, you know, when layoffs, your, you know, quiet quitting and coffee bagging and those types of things. And, you know, part of my message is, man, if you're 50 years old and you have to ask somebody to take time off, I'm like, what are we doing? And so and the micromanagement was a big one. I'm like, yeah, I mean, that was a big thing for me is you've been doing your job for 30 years and you got somebody over your shoulder telling you to come into the office to do this and like, it just it just seems really broken. And sometimes I have to question myself. My just too close in the middle of this all the time with things fundamentally changed. I think things have fundamentally changed. And, you know, again, but listen to your don episode about what's going on with corporate. I think they're doing things like the layoffs. Everything is short term, you know, profit driven, shareholder and executive driven. And unlike, I say, the old days of five years ago, at least, they used to pretend that this wasn't for business or profit reasons. But when you have companies that have record orders yet, they're laying people off. Yeah. And they're just almost unapologetic about, you know, if this is you're just a number and it's me and just remind them like, hey, you're just a number, they're not going to and you're going to be the expensive number. So guess who's going to get caught first and just have a plan. [00:16:50][79.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:16:50] Yeah, yeah. And don't hook your star on someone else's success. That's that's a real big part of it, isn't it? [00:16:57][6.4]
Brett Trainor: [00:16:57] Exactly, exactly. [00:16:58][0.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:16:59] You can I mean, one of my favorite things is when people ask me, you know, for advice and or thinking about what to do with the next, you know, path to take in their career, I firmly believe that the best bet you'll ever make is betting on yourself. And I say that all the time, and you'll never make more money than you do working for yourself, in my opinion. Certainly experience as well. Yeah, that's. [00:17:20][21.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:17:20] Such a great point, Eileen, because that's that's what I did. I was like, man, I'm going to I mean, it's all in, you know, the business that we're in, it is relative to communication. But it was like I had a different kind of communication job. And I was like, you know what? I don't want to limp my way into, you know, retirement. I want to pivot and do something and provide real value and bet on myself. And and that's what I did. And I'm having more fun doing it than I can. I could even imagine. And, and at our, at our age, I'll, I'll, I'll look, you know, give us a little. And we're not exactly the same. [00:17:50][29.8]
Brett Trainor: [00:17:51] But. [00:17:51][0.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:17:51] But I think you made a great point about asking for time off or having to, you know, I think all the time about being able to work from anywhere and being able to take calls from anywhere and being able to go to meetings anywhere and still do things I want to do without having to say, oh, can I get vacation? Oh, I don't have seniority or, oh, I don't have this. Like it was just, you know, at this point in my life and I don't want to speak for everybody. It was a really big factor, and what I did and when I tell people about all the time, I'm like, I love the work, I love the flexibility. And at this point in my life, I don't want to have to ask for permission. So that's a really great point you made. [00:18:25][33.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:18:25] Yeah. Freedom and autonomy. It's a it's amazing how hard it is to put a price tag on that, isn't it? [00:18:30][5.0]
Brett Trainor: [00:18:31] Until you have it right. Once you taste it then you're like, now, I'm not going back. Right? [00:18:35][4.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:18:36] I have been approached twice with some really, really big jobs and got to the point of I said yes to one of them before I woke up the next morning and said, Eileen, what the hell are you doing? Yesterday it was hard to go back and say no. At that point. It was quite embarrassing, but I did. I was like, not happening. Sorry guys. [00:18:58][22.1]
Brett Trainor: [00:18:59] But it worked out. Yeah, it's funny, I think, but if you've been in corporate for 20, 30 years, you don't you bet on yourself to get the job right, but you don't usually bet on yourself to take everything that you've learned and then and go apply it. And it's, yeah, I think it's you're right. I didn't realize what I didn't know until now. And now it's just how do we educate? You guys are spreading the word. You've built your own solo companies. And as I think we were talking before that, you know, they're still stressed. We're not. I'm not talking on here. Say everything super easy. Going to go make all this money. You're going to work an hour a day. No no, no. When you wake up with stress, it's your own stress. And you can there's something you can do about it, right? You're in control of what you do and the path that you take versus, you know, corporate. It's somebody else's priorities. It's somebody else's schedule. It's it's you know, you may have some input, but you don't own it. [00:19:50][51.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:51] And you're certainly not driving, you know, the same amount of, revenue, profit that at all. Now. Not even close. Yeah. So yeah, it really does come down to freedoms. You have the freedom to say yes to the work that you take on, the freedom to set your schedule that suits your lifestyle, and maybe how your brain works. Maybe you're better at night than you are in the morning. You know, having to be at work by commuting all that. And get there to start by 9:00. May not be for you, but when you do it for yourself, you get to decide. And that's an incredibly powerful position to be in. It's life changing. So brett it's obvious that you kind of have your pulse on the current professional landscape and all the things that are, you know, good and bad in the corporate world in particular. From your perspective, what do you believe the future of work will look like? And let's talk about that. And what does that mean for those in corporate and for those who maybe are choosing to stay out or go out? [00:20:46][54.8]
Brett Trainor: [00:20:46] Yeah, it's a good question. And I think part of the reason why I'm so excited about this, the escapee movement, is it's never been better for us to to leverage that experience, because I think the future of work is going to be solo companies, right? I mean, the one static I saw on a sign of study not too long ago that had, what was it? It was knowledge workers. Right. 27% of the time, knowledge workers were doing knowledge work. And so I just translate that into corporate rights. And you think about your corporate job. And a given week, if 30% of your time is spent actually doing the job you were hired to do, that was a good week, right? Unnecessary meetings, all those other things. So 30%. So when I think about small businesses that need and could leverage. Right. Can you imagine, Rob going into a business to help them with their media and their training, because there's no way they could have afforded him before. But now with new business models, there's ways you can you can support those small businesses. I think they're better, situated to leverage technology. They have access to talent they've never had access to before. And I don't think they're married and, to about the old models. Right. So if you think of the old, bigger companies, everything has a silo. You know, it's all silos are it's operating budgets. Right. And somebody is in charge of this operating. So to get better you have to go across except nobody wants to give up anything. So it's going to be like turning a Titanic with those companies all of a sudden. Now we've got folks who we can slide into businesses that are small, ready to scale with technology, AI coming in and, you know, people, such as us, that can help them grow the businesses. It just it makes too much sense. You know, the the way I share, I'm going a little bit of a rabbit hole, but the tangent is, I'll have people in corporate say, well, how do I how they can afford me? I'm like, look, use the 27% analogy power of 27. But hey, when you work with me, I'm only charging you for the 27%. It's not the overhead I'm only get. You're going to pay for the outcomes, right? Yeah. I know we have to do all this other stuff. You don't have to provide benefits. You still can charge a premium as a solo business owner. And the business benefits because they don't have to, you know, hire a full time equivalent until they're ready. So all of a sudden you can get somebody to pay two people the cost of one, you know, full time equivalent that were, you know, C-level or director level or ran something in large companies for 20 years. Holy cow. With the impact it could have on these small businesses, right? [00:23:07][141.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:08] Yeah, yeah. [00:23:08][0.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:23:08] And the other thing I think it's important to you brought up technology, because when AI first surfaced, it was like, oh my gosh. And our listeners know that Eileen and I have done multiple episodes on AI, so we're fascinated with it. But, the wise Eileen Rochford once said, they're paying us for our ideas. And that gave me a ton of confidence to realize this job that I'm doing, that you're you all are doing isn't just something that you can plug in and spit out something, you know, genius, because we're a product of our experiences and we are getting paid for our ideas. So I just wanted to bring that up too, because I'll never forget when you said that Eileen, it's like, that's what they're doing. They're paying us for our ideas. [00:23:49][40.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:50] That's right. And I think that's a huge, aspect of what the future of work looks like, particularly for knowledge workers like us. It's no matter the amount that AI comes into play, all that does is make certain processes perhaps a little faster, not necessarily more accurate, not necessarily better. But AI will never be able to replace great ideas and great strategy that comes from people like us. [00:24:13][23.2]
Brett Trainor: [00:24:14] Yeah, people. [00:24:14][0.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:24:14] Lived it, you know. [00:24:15][0.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:15] It almost makes it more valuable in my opinion. And I think people are starting to realize that. So that creates an even more ripe environment for people to leave corporate and, and sell kind of the fruits of their experiences, as you've put it Brett, because they're even more valuable. [00:24:31][15.3]
Brett Trainor: [00:24:31] Yeah, yeah. And I'll, I'll leave it maybe two quick example that we did for two quick examples that I like to use to people. So one is the, you know, blockbuster movie, right? I told you I saw twisters last night. Great. But when you think about how that movie was put together, it wasn't one company that had all these employees, right? It was a bunch of small and solo companies, hair, makeup artists, script writers. Everything came together to build this, put this together. Then they went their separate ways, and these groups probably worked together on something else and then move forward. To me, that just makes a lot more sense. And we're about the solo companies that can come together to help companies break off. Well, and I share that. The Ocean's 11 example. Right. Like, Clooney wants to rob the casino, but he needs specialists to come in. And do different things. He doesn't bring a company in. He thinks he's brought the folks that he knows that can get the job done and deliver, and everybody profits from it. And then they go back in and do their own thing. So it's not like this is a new concept. I think, you know, the industrial we can spend it episode on industrial revolution, how it forced offices and all these things. But I think we're coming back to the more natural way that we work and live. Is that more facilitate type of businesses? [00:25:37][65.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:25:37] It's almost expert-based or talent-based in a way. Yeah, it's that flexibility to kind of make it, you know, as big as you need to be, as small as you need it to be, or as precise as you need to be. Our niche. Yeah. [00:25:49][11.3]
Brett Trainor: [00:25:50] As long as you need it to be right, you may need somebody to come in and help you set up and establish marketing. Or, you know, if a company's got a marketer they like, but maybe it's a junior person that's been there out of college for three years. I think they have talent. Bring somebody that ran marketing for, you know, standard in course for five years to come, mentor this person to bring them up. They're not going to get that experience anywhere else. But we can start to leverage and get paid for doing some things different ways. Now, I would caution people not to chase too many shiny objects at once. I can guarantee you that works, but as long as its mission is to stick to your core expertise, there's just different ways you can go for it. [00:26:26][36.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:26] Well, you just made me think about something like, how smart would that be to bring in someone on a fractional basis to, kind of grow, you know, help advance some of our more junior folks here? That. Honestly, I'd never thought of that. So thank you. I think that's. [00:26:41][14.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:42] Professional development right? I mean, that's a. [00:26:44][2.4]
Brett Trainor: [00:26:45] Professional development. [00:26:45][0.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:46] Yes. And absolutely. So, Brett, if somebody is interested about pivoting and writing the next chapter in their professional life, what do you think the most important things are? They must consider and make priorities. [00:26:56][10.8]
Brett Trainor: [00:26:57] Yeah, it's a great question. Again, if you would have asked me this before I left, it would have been a different answer. But in hindsight, one of the things that I'm so thankful that I had the opportunity to do, after the fact is, is really define what I want. Right? When you're in corporate, you're really not defining what you want. You're hoping to make some money or get that promotion. But now, right again, I'm hoping to live a healthy, longer life. So what do I want my next 30 years to look like? And debt and corporate was it in it? But when I sat down with my wife to think about what we want, do we even have shared goals? What do we what do we want to do and where we want to go? Where do we want to work? How much money do we need? And I'm sure there's folks out there shaking their heads like, why haven't you financial plan. And in this part it's financially planning. But part of that is really what do we want to do is we can keep control. So think about what you want. And then the other thing that I really encourage people to get started, think about the problem that you want to solve is too often we go from, well, I'll be a fractional, you know, head of sales, which is fine. But what I find works better is think about what that problem you want to solve, or what you do in your job today, or you've done over the course of 20 years that you really like to do. And that's what you're going to take to the small and mid-sized companies and say, hey, I can help you solve this, right? You don't have to position it as A or B. This is how I work. This is how I can help you. It's such an easier conversation than trying to force a consulting engagement sometimes, or even a fractional, I guess developing your relationship, you're going to get paid for. But again, around the problem, so you don't have to have all of your offerings completely ironed out. You don't have to have a fancy website. You don't have to have all of those things. It's really about thinking about what you want to do. How do you solve it? And ideally, how do you solve it differently? You can tell a different story then you're going to do, you do just fine. And then how do we help them gain the confidence? Because I think that's the other thing. It's it's amazing you've had this story, that unbelievably successful corporate career, but you don't think you can sell the $10 million a year manufacturer of two doors right in the neighborhood that you can help them? It's just it's just a mindset shift, not just by that. That's one of the biggest things. [00:28:58][120.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:58] Yeah. I love what you said about figuring out what you loved about the job that you did inside. That's so important. And I just want to pause and underscore that for everybody. Because I think that's the game changer. Brett when you can focus or, you know, really spend the majority of your time doing those things or that thing that you truly loved and were great at, and you don't have to do the rest of it anymore. That seems to me to be the biggest silver lining of leaving corporate and taking the leap to go out on your own, I think. [00:29:30][31.9]
Brett Trainor: [00:29:30] I think so, you know, one of the interesting things I found more recently with some of the folks I work with directly is because we talked through what their what their corporate roles and responsibilities were. They kind of map out what does and offerings look like, right? Like where do you want to focus? But what I'm finding is there's kind of two sides to this coin. One is the corporate work you did and the other is kind of the coaching. Right. So, one woman is in was in the wellness space or still is, but she was more interested and passionate about helping other women that were slightly behind where they were in their wellness journey or what they're not getting at work. Versus helping companies build out their wellness. So I think there's two sides to it. I always encourage people to go with what, you know, take the most friction out or get some momentum. But if you're passionate, kind of like what I'm transition to where I started was on the business side, you know, in another month, I'm going to be 100% focused on the corporate escapee and helping people get out. That wasn't even on my radar, right, 18 months ago, if that. And even six months ago, it wasn't even a possibility. So, yeah, find the path of least resistance to get out, get the momentum, and and then all the doors open up. [00:30:35][64.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:30:35] Yeah. That's fantastic advice. Can we spend just a minute on what someone's professional life can look like outside of the stresses and the adrenaline, which is the negative, of what we experience inside of, the corporate professional life. Tell us what it's like once you leave those doors. [00:30:56][21.1]
Brett Trainor: [00:30:57] It's it's freeing. It's like I said, it's I don't think the environment is toxic because these businesses are doing what's right for the business and just not having I think it keeps and keeps coming back to the freedom and the flexibility and time, time, time, time. Because when I part of what I'll keep saying in my messaging is that, as in corporate, if I had to work out, it had to be, you know, before 6:00 Am or in the evening. So basically that means it didn't happen, right? Right. Yeah. There is no way that, you know, but now I've got my schedules set up, that at 9:00, I can walk to the gym every morning for 90 minutes, you know, do the gym, breakfast, everything else and get back to work. And nobody's on me because I own my own schedule. So that was kind of the biggest thing. And I joke with folks that you people would know me in corporate. I would have been more, yeah, it's money, right? We're doing this. But now it is what is, you know, on a bigger purpose. What is the why? Why are you doing this? What do you want to do? You have the time to do it. How do we make the most out of, you know, Jesse Hartzler? I don't know if you guys know Jesse. He's. He's. Yeah, I've heard him say a quote the other day. I think he's a year younger than me. And he said, statistically speaking, right, we're going to live to 77 years. 56. That means I've got 21 summers left. How am I going to get the most out of those 21 summers? I'm like, yeah, I never thought that way until I got out of corporate. And now everything is the priority. We prioritize what we're doing. And I don't know about you guys, I'm sure the energy level and aren't you just more enthused about generally everything? Yeah. Once you got out of it. So. [00:32:32][95.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:32:34] Having skin in the game really changes everything, doesn't. [00:32:36][2.5]
Brett Trainor: [00:32:37] It? It does. [00:32:37][0.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:32:38] And also the like when you own your own life, you set own your own schedule. I think I've often thought of it as owning my life, and that that's how it felt differently and still does to this day, 21 years later. To own my own life is so empowering. It's so validating. And it's just I feel like I'm worth so much more. I don't even know how. [00:33:01][22.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:33:01] And entered into kind of piggyback off of something that you said earlier, relative to your wife was asking, you know, what's going on, you know, what was going on, what's going on. And while you're in the middle of that and you're just trying to get through to the next day, you know, you don't always realize it. And then all of a sudden you take a step back or you make a radical pivot to something else and people will say, oh my gosh, you seem so much happier. But while I was doing it, I wasn't sitting there saying, oh gosh, I'm so unhappy or unfulfilled or whatever the case may be, but I was dragging them along with me. They didn't have a choice, right? They're my family. And then all of a sudden, to be able to take that step back and have some introspection, is really a huge point. And so it kind of, I think dovetails off of what you said earlier, Brett, and certainly what you were just talking about Eileen. [00:33:45][44.7]
Brett Trainor: [00:33:46] Yeah. I can give you one more example where I think, you know, it opened up and expanded and improved. The family life is in corporate. You know, my wife knew when, you know, I was getting paid what I was getting paid. And so she really maybe not didn't know what I was doing, but it was, comfortable. We had benefits so she, she could go about doing what she needed to do. When I went solo, she had no insight. Right. So this was I didn't even I underappreciated how much stress this is putting her under because there was no give me in the sense of what was going on. And so it was about a year, just over a year ago, we started having you may laugh, but, I totally business review or and I would sit down, go to all the business numbers so she could see exactly where at where the expenses are. What I was thinking we're going to do the next quarter. And her and I would then think up again, what do we think we want to do next quarter and beyond. And so that just eliminated a lot of and eliminate all the stress, a lot of the stress from our relationship. Because now she could actually see what was going on, even though it's it's still scary. But it was I didn't realize like I said, it. So anyway, spoke to this and brought your significant other or whoever into it. Just I would highly recommend going through this type of process, because it greatly improved our relationship just by taking some of that unknown out of it. [00:35:05][79.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:35:06] That is fantastic advice, to to acknowledge how important it is. The relationship of whether you're married, no matter the age you are. But if you were, if one or both in a relationship are going to embark on solo life or, you know, independent, you know, team life, that you own the business, you got to have quarterly business reviews that my husband and I do a mini version each month, and we do it every quarter. And at the end of every year we do a little like two day retreat where we celebrate all the great stuff we did and the huge accomplishments we had. And we look back at the year and the year high five each other, you know, have a great weekend because it's so important to have the visibility and the shared understanding, but then also to take that time at the end of the year to just and that idea. And I also take out our investment portfolio for our retirement at the end of every year and say, look what we did. Like, is there something. Yeah. It just meaning it's important to acknowledge even if you only had a 5% return, or maybe you didn't do that great even because we've had some recent years where that's happened to a lot of people. Yeah. You still tried, you know, and you had a plan. You committed to it. You followed through on it. There's confidence that's derived from that. But I think what you're highlighting Brett is so important. It's that shared understanding that gets created when you have the conversations and being intentional and, you know, putting it on the calendar and saying, we're going to do this. [00:36:35][89.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:36:36] I feel like we you just expressed like we're in parallel universes here, because to go from W2, to go from getting paid every you know, exactly when you're getting paid, you know exactly how much you're getting paid. And then I had to sell her on. Yeah. If I got to go eat what I kill, that means, there is no paycheck if I don't go earn it. And now I may, you know, 1099 and, you know, W9, you know, person. It's a lot different experience. And even to this day, five plus years later, I just thanked her a couple of days ago, just out of the blue, I just said thank you because that was such a scary journey. And even though it was scary for me, I knew what I was doing, I think. But I was in the midst of it all day and she wasn't. And she was like, what is going on? But she was as you listen, she was a trooper and as, as a, you know, partner in the LLC, we do the same things you all are talking about. Like every so often, every quarter, a couple times a year, we have a retreat couple, you know, every quarter we sit there and talk about, you know, what's going on with the business. You know, let's take a look back. Let's take a look forward. And so I just think you nailed one of the most important points. Even though we're talking about professional life, the corporate, you know, corporate escapee kind of thing to to bring the significant other, the wife, the husband along is vital. And I think that was just one of the most important things you just said. Yeah, yeah. [00:37:58][82.3]
Brett Trainor: [00:37:58] In hindsight, I would have done it back in when I was still in corporate. Having that type of meeting would have been helpful. Right now, in hindsight says 2020, but, better late than never. So yeah, yeah. But I am doing we don't do the retreat. I need to take that in. That's a really, really, really good idea. [00:38:13][14.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:38:15] Yes. Like you can run to the American club. [00:38:17][1.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:38:18] If I'm not mistaken. [00:38:18][0.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:38:19] I just put in a plug for the American club. The club. Right. And the first, like ten years, that's where we would go. I feel like we can get away for a night. We're going to the American club. [00:38:27][8.1]
Brett Trainor: [00:38:29] Yeah. Maybe we could be the next sponsor of the podcast. Yeah. Right. [00:38:31][3.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:38:32] Right, right. So great idea. [00:38:33][1.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:38:33] Yeah, we've been there enough that yes, I should hit him up. [00:38:36][2.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:38:36] So we've talked about some positive things here, but we've also talked about some sobering things as we leave this conversation. In the spirit of positive thinking, what kind of advice would you give people, who are pondering this, who were saying, oh, that's really interesting, or I'm not sure if I'm ready to make that jump. What kind of advice would you give people, who may want to go on this journey? [00:38:57][21.0]
Brett Trainor: [00:38:58] Yeah, number one is just educate yourself. It doesn't cost you anything. Go through the path. I said, if you're looking for a job, you know how hard that is. Start to teach or start to network with some smaller businesses. I know if you don't, if you're starting from 0 to 1, there's some steps you need to go to figure out again, what's the problem? You can solve those types of things, but talk to people. Like you said, the beauty of this community and it's helped me probably more than some of the people I have brought in, is having those people to talk to, getting use cases. Right. So you got folks that are in IT, communications, you name it, and they come from a different background, but they're all driving towards the same thing. And what I found with newbies, they they like to hear from folks that are, I've been doing this for five years. They've been doing this for two years. We've been doing this for four days. I get somebody on a podcast not too long ago, she did not have to. Her fourth day, officially being a solo. And so it's just, again, hearing other people's story. And I think the other thing is don't sugarcoat it. It's not going to be, you know, lollipops and rainbows and. [00:39:57][59.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:39:59] Rainbows and unicorns. [00:39:59][0.5]
Brett Trainor: [00:40:00] And, you know, it's cool. But it's driving towards that. You control the future. What you said I loved that so much. And you control your life. You control your future. You work what you want to. Work. It's there. And again, I will tell the people that if you've been successful in corporate and somebody is paying you in corporate, you have the skills to be successful on your own. You just do, just one thing. And I've talked about people get freaked out by sales. I don't know how to sell. You get this is one of those little things. You change the framework, you're not selling, you're problem-solving. And if you're solving a problem, there's a price to pay to have that problem solved. That's all it is. It's not like you forcing somebody to do this and say, hey, do you have a problem? Hey, I can fix this. Couple ways I can do it. And if it doesn't work, you know, that used to bother me. But now I'm like, hey, if it's not fit, it's not a fit. But I think just changing that mindset is game changing for a lot of people. It seems simple, but it it works. [00:40:52][52.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:40:54] Great advice. Absolutely. Well, Brett, it was an honor having you on our show today and a true pleasure. You, I just want to acknowledge that, you know, first of all, it's really brave to do what you did. But you went way beyond meaning leaving corporate. But you went way beyond that. And it's just so selfless to want to help people to to achieve that same, you know, level of freedom in their lives. By creating this community, you're doing this, huge, solid for so many, many, many people. And I heard that, listening to, you know, guests on your own show their own gratitude and what they learned from the community that you've created. So that's a wonderful thing. Thanks for doing that, I appreciate that. [00:41:38][44.1]
Brett Trainor: [00:41:39] No, I'm I'm enjoying it. Like I said, energized again. The only my only regret that it didn't start sooner, but we all had I don't work backwards very often. So it's a what do we do going forward. So but I appreciate it. I enjoyed this is a really fun conversation. Thank you for having me. [00:41:53][14.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:41:54] We're delighted. Okay. Is that going to do it for our show? Rob, do we have to say goodbye now? [00:41:58][4.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:41:59] I think we do. I think we do. We don't have. We can do whatever we want to, but it's probably time. Yeah. [00:42:04][5.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:42:04] Okay, well, I want to just give Brett the opportunity to tell our listeners where people can find him first. And I'll certainly include it in the show notes, but I'd love to hear you say, you know, particularly on TikTok, where are we going to find you? [00:42:15][10.8]
Brett Trainor: [00:42:16] Exactly. Which I never thought I would be saying. And podcast is, yeah, follow me on TikTok, but it's the corporate escapee. I'll put it in the show notes you one thing, what's been an eye-opener for me is I've got a bunch of, spoof accounts out there, so make sure it is the right one. So I'll send you guys the actual linklink, but it is just the corporate escapee. Or if you want to start with LinkedIn, that's my preferred choice. We're all in corporate or coming from corporate. So connect with me there. And if you're thinking about leaving or curious about life outside of corporate, or if you've left corporate connect where you want to be, come join the community. It's slack, a bunch of really good people in there and, you know, help you at least figure out if this is a path you want to head down. [00:42:57][41.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:42:58] And how do they get into that slack community. [00:42:59][1.5]
Brett Trainor: [00:43:00] Just send me a note. I'll I'll send you guys the link. They can actually connect right from the show notes if they want. [00:43:05][4.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:43:06] Yeah. So wonderful. We will include all of that in the show notes. Thank you. [00:43:09][3.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:43:09] That is fabulous. Well, that is going to do it for another edition of Can You Hear me? I'm Rob Johnson, and if you'd like to comment on the podcast or suggest a topic, please reach out to us at our new Can You Hear Me podcast page on LinkedIn. [00:43:21][12.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:43:22] And I'm Eileen Rochford. If you like this show, please consider giving us a review on any of the platforms where you find your podcasts and where you find. Can you hear me this awesome podcast? Your reviews help other potential listeners to find our show and we always want to spread the good word. So thanks to everybody for listening. [00:43:22][0.0]
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