The Marketing and Communications fields have undergone a massive transformation over the last 40 years. Last episode we had Ron Culp, a veteran of the journalism, government, corporate, and agency world on to tell us where the business used to be. Today on “Can You Hear Me?”, co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson welcome Ron back to tell us where he thinks it is headed as we glean “More Wisdom from a Marketing and Communications Legend.”
The Marketing and Communications fields have undergone a massive transformation over the last 40 years. Last episode we had Ron Culp, a veteran of the journalism, government, corporate, and agency world on to tell us where the business used to be. Today on “Can You Hear Me?”, co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson welcome Ron back to tell us where he thinks it is headed as we glean “More Wisdom from a Marketing and Communications Legend.”
Meet Our Guest: Ron Culp
Prior to joining DePaul and becoming an independent public relations consultant, Ron Culp held senior public relations positions at four Fortune 500 corporations and two major agencies. Ron’s career spans a broad range of communications responsibilities in government and industry sectors including business-to-business, consumer products, pharmaceutical, and retailing.
Previously, Ron was a corporate officer and senior vice president, of public relations and government affairs, at Sears. Earlier in his corporate career, he held senior communications positions at Sara Lee Corporation, Pitney Bowes, and Eli Lilly.
Ron and his DePaul colleague Matt Ragas are co-authors of business-focused books for PR professionals entitled "Business Essentials for Strategic Communicators" (Palgrave Macmillan, 2014) and "Business Acumen for Strategic Communicators" (Emerald 2021) and they jointly edited "Mastering Business for Strategic Communicators" (Emerald, 2018). In 2018 and 2019, Ron compiled and edited three editions of an eBook entitled, "The New Rules of Crisis Management."
Connect with Ron Culp on Linkedin!
Eileen Rochford [00:00:20] Hello again and welcome to another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm The Harbinger Group.
Rob Johnson [00:00:28] And I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. If you listen to this program, you know that we have high level, interesting, dynamic guests. Share with us the depth of their wisdom. But for the first time, we're going to continue the conversation with one of them. We're going to get more wisdom from a marketing and communications legend. Yes.
Eileen Rochford [00:00:47] So last episode, we had Ron Culp, a 40 year marketing and communications veteran. Talk about where the industry came from and how he worked his way, from journalism to government to the highest echelons of some of the most noteworthy PR firms and corporations of their time like Sears, Kraft, Sara Lee, Golan and Ketchum, just to name a few.
Rob Johnson [00:01:08] So as we continue the conversation today, Ron, I want to ask you what you think it takes to be successful. I know that sounds like a catch all. We heard you talk a little about work life balance in the last episode. Is that one of the cornerstones of success?
Ron Culp [00:01:21] Well, first of all, I got in trouble once. It appears as a conference a few years ago because I had a question about work life balance, and I said, oh, give me a break. Forget about work. I found that balance in the crowd. Just, you know, there's no you're too young to worry about work life balance. You're going to work your butts off to make yourself indispensable in your organization. Put in the time and energy during the early part of your career, and it's going to pay huge dividends. Tell you quick story my Reed Woolford. Now Sanford, she's been married since she was an intern that I discovered once when I went down to the University of Alabama and she picked me up the airport, took me to campus and, and then took me back to the airport. And I said, where are you going to where are you going to work? And she said, well, I probably to move home to, Louisville to work at an agency or something. And I know you're not you're going to go to Chicago. I don't know anyone. Chicago. Who happened to know somebody? Long story short, she gets hired as an intern. I catch them, and, every time I would come into the office after a client meeting or whatever, about 5:00, I'd get run over by a lot of the interns and other staff leaving, and I'd work fairly late. And one night I walk by and there she is sitting on the floor. She's cutting out stuff, and she's making storyboards in the business development office. And so I said, well, that's kind of cool. So I stopped in and asked what she was doing. Well, they look really stressed out and busy. So before leaving I asked if I could help. Then she did the same with the research department. Once she did not once often, and by the time her internship came up, they were lined up to hire her. She had such a reputation that she became indispensable to the organization. So guess what? She is now running the business development business for Ketchum, the new business, area of Ketchum in Europe. And they sent her to Davos and she's she is absolutely become a super rock star. And she put in the time and effort and she has a she has a good family life and but she's always there and she's still always there. So just just you know, find ways to raise your hand. I also find, by the way, this is a secret you can often say as you're walking out the door, is there anything I can do to help you? Probably seven times out of ten, the answer is, oh, no, no, you go on home. Okay, fine, but I ask.
Eileen Rochford [00:03:47] That is fantastic advice and it still holds true today. Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, yeah. Even though there is that march to the door, you know, at five or the turning off of the computer, you know, at 530.
Ron Culp [00:03:59] And some people turn it off on a Friday and it's off, until Monday at 10:00 in the morning. And, I'm sorry, on your way up in your career and even as this old timer, I never let that happen. It's. You gotta you can make a window to get that work done. But you. It's the the senior people in our profession, become indispensable when the CEO or whoever the senior management people are you're dealing with know that they can rely on you when you're available, when you appear to be available, including when you're on vacation or whatever's going on in your life. It really is. And very important. Again, you don't have to if you're satisfied with where you are in your career. But generally, after a while, most people want a promotion. The only way you're going to get there is, is through that, that avenue. Yeah.
Eileen Rochford [00:04:56] Yeah, it's it's tough to teach that these days, but those who heed the advice certainly go really far really fast. So. Yeah. That's good. I'm glad you brought that up. Thank you. Okay, so I'd like to touch on one more topic. Recently on another episode of our podcast, Rob and I discussed this idea that communications professionals are increasingly, at the table when the big. Decisions are being made and particularly at the table, when business strategy is being discussed or even architected or developed, and the need for that to take place. So we're curious, what is your thought about the elevation essentially of, you know, the various senior communications role within organizations and companies? And how should people in those very positions be viewing their jobs and approaching their jobs?
Ron Culp [00:05:47] Well, it is something that that you've observed, as I have over the past, two decades, that, you know, again, evolving from that order taker to holy cow, they're telling me I actually I was sitting at the table you've been asking for for so long now you got it. And in order to keep it, you absolutely have to know the business. And so, as I would recommend you go into any business, whether it's the agency or corporate side or a big organization, nonprofit even. And I want to know somebody in every area, that company, whether it is the chief legal officer, the CFO, the, the buyers, the, obviously, if there's a sales function, you want to know the people in charge of sales and you want to have a network within that organization that helps inform you, because you do become the conduit and a consolidator very often, what is being thought in the organization and needs to be shared with senior management. And you're sometimes called upon by the CEO to provide. Not sometimes. Often. Quick story on I had one big, a line of business president, Sears who took me to coffee one day and he knew I he saw me as well because you have the ear of the boss. I wanted to share this with you and hope you could discuss it with him. The guy sits in the same leadership team I do, and so I said, okay, fine. And I thought it was kind of unusual, but I go in, during my weekly meeting with, with the CEO, I said, I'll eliminate his name, but, so-and-so said that he really feels this way. And Arthur said, are you kidding me? Why in the hell didn't you tell me this directly? I meet with him once a week, just like you. And I said, well, maybe he's afraid to. He said, well, it's a good idea. And I went back and I said, you know, I think he'd like to talk to you about it, and it it just, but by being accessible and, and and you want, you want within the organization people to trust you and to help you become. And everyone is called a gatekeeper. I just thought that I wanted to keep things rolling, and you keep things rolling through good communications.
Eileen Rochford [00:08:13] And relationships and relationships, you.
Ron Culp [00:08:16] Just.
Eileen Rochford [00:08:16] Work illustrated.
Ron Culp [00:08:18] Shifts in network and relationships, and I can't underscore it enough.
Eileen Rochford [00:08:22] Yeah, obviously he the person who approached you because they didn't want to speak to your mutual boss, felt very comfortable with you to do so, which is great. So that's relationship, right. And then when you didn't just, you know, take credit for the idea or whatever, others, you know, sometimes do in situations like that and brought it back to him, said, hey, we should go and have that convo because he's going to be real receptive to it. You just ingratiated yourself even further. So that's a great, great example.
Ron Culp [00:08:49] And I think good communicators, once they get a certain comfort level with the boss, you know, I always thought, if if I can't do this job the way I want to do it, then fine, I'll be fired and I'll go someplace else and do it. So you have to have a confidence in the fact that you probably got to land. It might take four months or more, but you're going to land. Okay? And just just make sure that you're, you're you're giving it your best rather than as that individual was just a little insecure, not a little a lot. Because that wasn't the first time that and, you know, he he just didn't know where he stood with the boss. Well, as a result, you know, he stood in by order afterwards by having shared a really important idea that helped advance that business.
Eileen Rochford [00:09:40] Wow. So if he had just worked on his relationship with his boss, things could have been far different.
Rob Johnson [00:09:46] And you were the conduit and you were the conduit. So you you look good on on all fronts. So you you mentioned earlier, about making yourself indispensable and you gave some pretty good, anecdotes about how to do that. But I want to ask the question just a touch differently. And I don't know if you have a different answer. Technology is redefining the jobs of almost everybody in this profession, marketing communications. So when you're up against technology, how do you make yourself indispensable again?
Ron Culp [00:10:16] You touched on it, the word relationships, I. I tell my students that just tear up your resume. I don't even want to see your resume. I want to look at your LinkedIn profile. I want to make sure that you have 500 plus LinkedIn connections before you get out of my class classes. I usually give them a couple of years to get it done, since some of them are starting from scratch, but so you need to have connections, and then you have to dive into them in such a way that that you can create some relationships as a result of them. And you have to make sure that you, I don't know, something about AI forensics as well. I have friends who are currently taking courses in AI, and I'm probably going to be taking one, even though I, I thought I was just going to cave in to letting somebody else. But for me. But I need to. I need to know what is going on because my students are using it more than I am, and that gives me a disadvantage. So when you see something, especially in the technology area, that you're not comfortable with, rather than say, but I'm too old to learn that you have to know the basics, someone is there to help you learn it. That's a great thing about our profession. Somebody will know it or know somebody who's going to be able to give you a crash course to make you more comfortable and is so much easier to do if you built that relationship with somebody who you can turn to to give you that kind of advice.
Eileen Rochford [00:11:42] Absolutely. I love that I'm hearing be the driver who embraces, you know, the change in the knowledge to be able to change. Yeah.
Ron Culp [00:11:50] Be the driver of your own career and no one else is going to be, doing it for you. It's there are a lot of mentors and sponsors out there, but you still have to be the one who makes it happen. If you want it to happen.
Eileen Rochford [00:12:04] That's right.
Rob Johnson [00:12:05] If you want, I can say something briefly. The last time we all saw each other in person was a few weeks back at the Communication Leaders of Chicago AI event at DePaul University, hosted by you and the crew at DePaul. So to your point about, you know, you know, learning it and doing that sort of thing. I mean, that was a that was a very eye opening, interesting moment and event that evening. And, of course, it was great to see you, and it's great to learn a lot more about it. So we were all kind of investing in that, weren't we?
Eileen Rochford [00:12:31] Yeah for sure.
Ron Culp [00:12:32] We were I, I was taking copious notes and I've had a lot of follow up questions. It's, and now you check the, Communications leaders of Chicago, website. You know, we posted kind of a graphic and, and other materials that that will just kind of be a crib sheet for those of us who don't really know enough about it, but to give you enough confidence that you could have a conversation with somebody who says, tell me a little bit about it, because very often our bosses are going to know less than we do, but we have to know more, in order to give them the kind of counsel that they need. So, it's it's it's easy to do. Information is so easy to do compared to when we were first starting out in this profession. There's no such thing as.
Eileen Rochford [00:13:19] Google, right? That's right. There's you can endless opportunities to learn about, you know, the different tools and technologies that are impacting our industry. No doubt about it. It's an issue of setting aside the time and committing yourself to doing so. And that's what I observe of, people who I mentor or and the team that I lead personally. It's even explaining to, to people, if you're not dedicating, you know, ten, 15 hours a month of your own time to listen, to read, to join webinars, you know, inside and outside of business hours and then kind of making up for it. You're never going to be able to keep up in this industry. That's that's.
Rob Johnson [00:13:56] Never ends. And if it does for you, then you're done.
Ron Culp [00:13:59] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tip along those lines.
Eileen Rochford [00:14:01] Yeah. Let's hear it.
Ron Culp [00:14:02] Is when you're when you're getting on a plane, I go by the newsstand and I pick up a publication of something I have no godly interest in, I'm sorry to say, golf. Or whatever it is, popular mechanics, things I'm just not familiar with. And I'm reading it and trying to figure out some things because eventually it may lead to a conversation that it looks really, good if you have a little bit of understanding and it's so easy to do. So, a lot of people would never gravitate to something as foreign as a publication in an area where they have no interest. But I find it fascinating to to find out about what tournaments being played and who the major players are and whether Tiger's son is for real and all that sort of stuff. So I'm not interested in golf, but I certainly, could probably have a basic conversation with any executive who wants to talk about it.
Rob Johnson [00:15:00] And that's intellectual curiosity, and that's a reporter at heart. You got to know a little something about everything, don't you?
Ron Culp [00:15:05] You you know that story?
Eileen Rochford [00:15:07] Absolutely. That's excellent advice, though, because it completely goes against our natural instincts and and being, you know, your storied career and where it's led you through that intellectual curiosity. Is just an endorsement of the very advice you just gave. So I appreciate that. I appreciate you being with us today. Is there anything else that we didn't touch on that you would like our listeners to hear?
Ron Culp [00:15:30] Well, this has been delightful, and I've gone on longer than you ever intended. But going back to your mentioned al goal and I'd say use his wise advice. You know, you always talk about love, what you do. And a matter of fact, he said, love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life and you know you're still working. But I still love what I do. And being with, you guys today. I love that, too. So thanks for inviting me.
Eileen Rochford [00:15:56] Oh, and I'm just. I'm just so happy to be in your presence. It's. It's great. You're just. You're just a wonderful light for so many people. And we appreciate you being with us to share that. Oh thank you, thank you thank you. Okay guys there's there's a close here that we're going to have to jump to so we can wrap it up. But there's a whole bunch that we'll put in our show notes, referencing many of the things and recapping many of the things that Ron shared with us today. So thank you again for joining us today, Ron Culp. That's going to do it for another edition of our show. Can you hear me? I'm Eileen Rochford. If you would like to weigh in on this podcast, other topics you'd like to hear us cover any feedback in general, you can always find us on our LinkedIn page. The Can You Hear Me podcast LinkedIn page. And there's a link to it in our show notes as well.
Rob Johnson [00:16:44] And I'm Rob Johnson. We thank you so much for listening. And if you like this show, please consider giving us a review on any of the platforms where you found. Can you hear me? That's Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts and more. Your reviews help other smart folks find our show. Thanks for listening.