For Executive Leadership Teams everywhere, making sure company leaders talk about their organization in a uniform, cohesive manner is paramount. But as a leader, do you have the foundational pieces in place to allow this to happen? We are starting a series of podcasts on “Can You Hear Me?” focused on core communications elements that are in need of a refresh in 2023. In Part 1, co-hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford ask the question, “Is Your Internal House in Order”?
Eileen Rochford [00:00:18] Hello again everyone, and welcome to another episode of "Can You Hear Me?" I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the Marketing and Strategy Group The Harbinger Group.
Rob Johnson [00:00:28] And I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. As you know, this podcast is dedicated to providing the best communications advice to all of you. Based upon the experiences we've had for many years- Eileen is an executive at multiple agencies and for me is a TV anchor and reporter. We now own our own marketing and strategy and communications firms, and we spend all of our days, most of our days trying to assist our clients in becoming the best communicators they can be. We're talking about corporate clients, government NGOs, not for profits. And I always tell my clients and potential clients, it doesn't matter what industry you're in, if you're having trouble communicating your message, we are here to help. And Eileen, I know that you do a lot of specialized work as well, but whenever I get asked that question, I'm like, "Listen, if you're having a hard time communicating, let's start talking about it."
Eileen Rochford [00:01:20] That's right. And we start with process, don't we?
Rob Johnson [00:01:24] Yes, no doubt about that, because you got to start somewhere. And sometimes people- clients don't understand. They want to run before they walk. And we have to sometimes- I know you do, and I certainly know I do. We have to "let's dial it back a little bit and let's take a little bit closer look at the process of what you're doing and why you're doing it."
Eileen Rochford [00:01:44] Yeah, and here's why I think it's particularly relevant right now. I mean, you and I, we talk a lot outside of this show and we exchange experiences and there seems to be some common theme running through the work, despite the fact that we're working for totally different clients and hardly ever working together. And I find that very, very interesting. And what I'm seeing is that right now, I don't know- it feels like like lots of us and not just the people we consult with, but also here on my team and with clients we've worked with for years and years. It's like we're in need of a checkup when it comes to kind of marketing communications basics almost.
Rob Johnson [00:02:31] How basic are you talking?
Eileen Rochford [00:02:33] I'm talking all the way down to- let's revisit our strategy and make sure that these decisions are taking us in the direction that we need to go in order to achieve the goals that we outlined at the onset of this engagement. That basic. Right? Here's why I think that you're seeing it, and I'm seeing it and lots of other friends of mine, colleagues of mine in this industry and just in marketing in general are having similar observations. So I think it's due to the prolonged effects of working in this COVID world environment and all the change in the struggle that we've been experiencing over the past two plus years. It's been a very, very different way of living and working. We've talked about that a lot on the show.
Rob Johnson [00:03:26] Yes.
Eileen Rochford [00:03:27] But I'm just putting it out there as kind of a baseline because my theory is that two years is a super long time to have to remain hyper focused, hyper vigilant, and just managing change and working to stay afloat. And I think that doing so meant that some of our skills, our core skills, our foundational skills were left unused and they've gotten rusty.
Rob Johnson [00:03:59] And it was okay because you're just trying to stay afloat. You're just trying to stay abreast of the task at hand, which is what's right in front of you. But I think what you're also talking about and what we're going to get into since we're going to do multiple parts on this particular issue, is the strategy, the long term, the you know, where are we headed with this? So we start with getting your internal house in order, which is what this podcast, this particular episode is about. But also what happens when you look ahead because as everybody knows, you have to have a strategy in place to have success and you can't just be managing month to month.
Eileen Rochford [00:04:38] Yeah, and before things really kind of get out of control again in a different way. Now that the world is practically back in full swing and everything is heating up and all the planes at once, not just the hyperfocus on managing change and staying afloat. Now all those things that maybe were allowed to not be as important in the past, they're back on the table and people are paying attention to them again. So the world is kind of getting back to that feeling, that being way of "wait, those core things are just equally important." And we're going to go back and we're going to look at those skills. We're going to judge and evaluate based on whether you're kind of up to snuff in these areas, which is why we're doing the series, because I feel like right now the those who are in marketing and our teams and our processes are in need of a full diagnostic checkup to make sure that everything is in working order as it just feels like if those basic elements and they've gotten away from us. So that's what the series is all about today. We're refreshing.
Rob Johnson [00:05:53] We are refreshing. And the people that are listening to this need to understand those were the rules for that time. Now the rules are kind of going back to where they were. They're not changing, but they're essentially going back to where they were, which is you have to have these core competencies if you're going to have any sort of success. And the fact that we all, you know, all for one and one for all during an unprecedented time in our society and our history, in our professional lives, that was okay for that moment. But now the moment calls for some of the skills that you may have, as you say, got rusty on.
Eileen Rochford [00:06:31] Yeah, yeah. A lot was forgiven. A lot was kind of put in park during these years. And thus, I think, you know, but through no fault of anyone's, we have forgotten them a bit. So that's why we're doing this series and we're going to take on a number of different things throughout the next four or five shows.
Rob Johnson [00:06:53] Yeah. And I think it's I think it's very important to do that. And as you sit here and start imagining these core competencies that were sort of overlooked, if you will, for the past several years, where where do you think you would start?
Eileen Rochford [00:07:09] Well, today we're going to talk about tightening up your foundational messaging. That's the place where if we don't, everybody knows if you don't have your foundational messaging, you're in a quite a bit of trouble. And we always say everybody who's thinking about improving their marketing structure, their communications skills, whether it's for an individual or an organization, we strongly recommend spending quite a bit of time honing those foundational messages. Your message, and you've got to do that internally before you go out to the marketplace and external stakeholders to tell the world how fabulous you are. No one's going to believe it if you can't actually articulate in a consistent manner. So what does that require? It requires a detailed internal assessment. Super dive into your structures, the way you communicate with your stakeholders, to your stakeholders. How everyone else who's external facing does the same. All that's going to happen because if your structure and your consistency of message aren't in order, you're just going to have a whole lot of problems when you're trying to achieve awareness and understanding your marketplace. So that's why we're going to start with tightening up your foundational messaging.
Rob Johnson [00:08:32] And this exercise requires more than just a little bit of self-awareness, because I can't tell you the people I will talk to from time to time and they're like, "Hey, we're good. We're okay. I have a marketing department, I have this and that." And I'm like, "You're missing the point." And the point is that some of these exercises go beyond what your marketing department, what your CMO is doing on a day to day basis to stay afloat of all the things that you have given him or her to do. And so it does require self-awareness where you say, you know what, we could be better communicators, we're returning to normal. We have money to invest in this endeavor and we want to be better at communicating. And to your point, it always, always, always starts internally because I can't tell you how many clients or potential clients I come across who will say, "We want to go shoot videos and tell everybody how great we are." Now, often those businesses have given very little thought or have not developed the thought about who they are and what they stand for and what's more, they have yet to develop a consensus with their own executive leadership teams about what they say about their company in a uniform way. Because, as you know, Eileen, you cannot have your leaders going around to those external stakeholders telling different stories with different messages. And I like to call it message discipline. And sometimes when I'm making a point with a leader, a CEO and the light bulb goes off like, "yes, okay." So you have companies that people have different jobs in that company. And everybody and I always call it the weeds. Everybody loves getting into their own weeds and talking about what they do specifically. But the message I try to share with a lot of clients is before you get into the weeds, while you're still maybe down 30,000, maybe 15 or 10,000 feet. You all need to be able to talk about what you do in a uniform way so people get it. And of course, when you get into your weeds, you're going to be talking about what you do specifically. But whether you're at a cocktail party, whether you're at a conference, and then, of course, if you're doing media, you're obviously going to go with an extra layer of training that we're going to help you through to hone that message. But no matter where you are externally, when you come out to any of these events or maybe you're a featured speaker, subject matter expert at a conference of some sort, you have to have had that discussion. You have to be able to talk about who you are. And it doesn't need to be like a ten minute monologue. It could be a good enough discussion about who you are. So when it's time for somebody to ask the question, the questions keep coming and you could talk more about what you do.
Eileen Rochford [00:11:34] So what's a good stress test for determining whether people have it together when it comes to foundational messaging and everybody preaching from the same hymnal. If you're singing rather from the same hymnal, if you will.
Rob Johnson [00:11:56] You could also preach if you wanted to, but singing maybe even a little bit better. I really think that the stress test is and sometimes, you know, it's hard for people to understand when it comes to marketing because they want to see a specific ROI. And you could get leaders in a room and you could start talking about who you are and what you do and how you express yourself. And sometimes people, it seems like a really easy question and they will struggle with the very easy thing, like, "Hey, you work at Company X, what do you do? Who do you do it for?" I mean, these are the basic things, right? And I always tell people, if you do an "uh" or you can't finish that thought- that basic thought- then you got a lot of work to do. So I don't know if that's the best way of doing it. But a stress test where you are not put on the defensive but you are required to talk about your company, not in 3 to 5 minutes, like I said earlier, but 15 to 30 seconds. What do you do? What do you do it for? Why do you do it better than other people? You know, what's your value proposition? That's not meant to be the end of the conversation. That's meant, as I said before, to lead to the next question. What about you? What do you think? What is a stress test that you are comfortable with or that you think is effective?
Eileen Rochford [00:13:18] I often like to do this one. So I'll ask leadership teams- who are your most critical external facing? Either spokespeople or even salespeople- just depends on the organization. Give me five or six of them. Tell me the things that you want to make sure are being heard in the marketplace by those folks. And we go and interview them privately one on one. And we don't pretend like we're media. We just talk to them. You know, talk to me like I've never heard of your company before. Explain what you do. These kinds of, you know, just exploratory, discovery focused questions. And then we write a report. Here's what we heard: the themes that emerged, maybe anomaly type descriptions that we heard, outliers, and present that often through verbatims pulled out of those conversations to the marketing team who's in charge of message consistency, or C-suite executives who are really involved in this in smaller organizations. And they often find it very eye opening that their people are saying related things, but they've kind of. They've just gone off. They're not following their GPS guidance anymore. Let's put it that way. It's very rare when we're hired that companies are hiring us to do that kind of an assessment because they do have their house in order. But what I will say is I think they're surprised and sometimes even just shocked by the degree of variance or the degree of off targetness of what those reports show. It's great exercise. I love doing that one.
Rob Johnson [00:15:24] And when you do that and I've done that before with the sales teams because they are truly the most- even if you're a company leader, the sales teams are out there every day, day after day, call after call, zoom after zoom, in-person meeting after in-person meeting, talking about what they're going to do for you as a firm, as a company with a product or service. And I think it's fascinating to see that there is a disconnect sometimes or I will say, "here's an issue you should care about as a leader." And they'll be like, "well, we don't really care about that." And it'll be something where my contention is you might be losing business over it. Why don't we talk to the sales team? So I'm taking what you're talking about, and I'm flipping it a little bit, too. Your impression of of who you are and what you do, maybe, and let's say you're struggling with sales or something of that nature and you're saying, "hey, the sales team needs to work harder. You just need to work harder." And I might say, "Well, have you put him in a position to succeed or fail?" And it all starts with messaging and it all starts with starts with core values, which is exactly the point that you've been raising.
Eileen Rochford [00:16:41] Sure. Yep. No doubt. Yeah. So. It's an assessment refresh kind of year. So this would be a great little test to take home. But I have one bit of advice and that is I do not and will never be convinced otherwise. I do not believe this is the kind of exercise that you can do internally. There's a lot of reasons for that. Comfort level, people being interviewed and sharing their perspective will always think that they are being assessed, evaluated, reviewed in some way if it's done by someone from within an organization. But yet what I see when they talk to an external team whose, you know, "we're just here to learn more. We're just here to explore. Teach us." The degree to which people open up and share is so much greater. In fact, often they'll even talk about, "I struggle with consistent messaging because of the reasons X, Y, and Z," and hearing that they won't often tell, you know, internal people that type of feedback. It depends on the organization. But for real, I think I've just seen it done much, much better when there's an outside, very unbiased, no skin in the game, person collecting the information and guiding the conversation. So find somebody who could do that for you. And you know, you'll get a much better product.
Rob Johnson [00:18:10] And I'm always fascinated when say I'm working with a client, having that conversation with somebody and they do open up and they do have some trust there, even though we haven't worked together hardly at all. But they realize that I'm a unbiased, you know, third party that's trying to get to the bottom of whatever communications issues they're having. But I've also seen that when you're talking about getting your internal house in order, which is what we're talking about today, the number of people and let's say I'm interviewing somebody who's really outward facing, who's one of the customer facing people. And their vision of what the realities are might be far different than what the C-suite is. And that's when you realize, oh, my gosh, we have a lot of work to do because we all have to talk about this place within the same manner, basically. And we can't have somebody saying, "Well, the reality is, you know, as I deal with customers and I see them on a daily basis, this is what I'm hearing from them," which is one of the most important things you can do, is get that customer feedback. True?
Eileen Rochford [00:19:16] True.
Rob Johnson [00:19:16] And some people who are removed from that, who may be higher up the organizational chart, may not be privy to that. And sometimes if you're that person, you don't always feel comfortable telling that to your boss and you're more comfortable telling it to somebody like us and we can help. Maybe. Well, not maybe, but we do help get to the bottom of those communications issues, because if there's that kind of disconnect, you have no chance externally with stakeholders.
Eileen Rochford [00:19:49] Yeah, darn right.
Rob Johnson [00:19:53] Well. And I'll say something else too. And it always fascinates me when I talk to clients and everybody's so zeroed in on, you know, earned media. "I want to get on TV, I want to get on radio, I want to be quoted," you know, that sort of thing. What I would tell you, too, and remember, we're talking about getting your internal house in order before you go tell the world how great you are. So it comes back to that. The whole earned media thing should be the last step in this journey because, you've been drilled consistently about your messaging. And it may be crystal clear in those interviews and certainly I know when we prep our clients, I mean, we go through a whole laundry list of things they got to be prepared for. But when you're getting earned media, they're only telling half of the story. You have a story you want to share with everybody. And when you go to earn media, sometimes they're going to get the other side of the story. Maybe it's a competitor. Maybe it's somebody that doesn't see things the way you do. You want to make sure you're quoted correctly. And that's why I tell people, don't forget, before you deal with earned media, there's a whole level of social media where you have the ability to create and hone your message on your terms with your audience. And I know that's an external thing, but it starts internally getting your house in order, being able to to say with consistency and clarity who you are, because when you go to the public. I think starting with social media makes sense because you're creating a narrative about who you are. It's your story on your terms and then as you get better at it and as you maybe become, you know, more prevalent in your field as a subject matter expert, or you're seen as somebody that they want to interview about what you do or about whatever your industry is- that's earned media. And that's where they're going to tell part of your story. But when you get out there initially, it's social media. You need to be able to tell the story on your terms, on your turf. And I know that again, I know that's external, but I'm saying all that work that's done internally is vital to make sure that what happens externally goes smoothly.
Eileen Rochford [00:22:08] Yeah, absolutely. You just had me thinking about how doing this foundational messaging evaluation refresh work, how important it is obviously, for all of these different platforms, but also because the outside world is looking at brands and the messages coming out of organizations with a higher degree of scrutiny and almost a heightened degree of scrutiny, meaning they're sensitive to so much more now. The rate of change of what people find acceptable, what they find proper when it comes out of brand messaging. The rate of change over the last two years has been honestly incredible. It's almost as if we fast forwarded a quarter of a decade in two years in terms of people's perspective. So it's a great time to do that type of foundational messaging evaluation refresh. Call it what you want, just to make sure you're keeping up with how things really should be said in our new environment, our new world. I'm not talking about political correctness. I'm just talking about empathy, inclusion, you know, general caring. Some of the phrases that may have been used even two years ago are likely not great choices now. So I think that's another important point for people to make as to why it's a good time to make sure that you haven't let that foundational messaging get rusty as well.
Rob Johnson [00:23:57] Let's dive a little deeper on that. What are the messages, the changing perspectives that you were talking about, the things that were okay two years ago that aren't okay now?
Eileen Rochford [00:24:09] There's so many. It's crazy.
Rob Johnson [00:24:11] Give me like two or three that are top of mind for you that two or three years ago. Yes. And now you're like, we shouldn't we should have waited on that one.
Eileen Rochford [00:24:19] Yeah. Well, it's some simple, basic things, for example. Using "he" instead of "she" or "she" instead of "he" honestly when you could use "they." Not because that's what someone has chosen, but just as a general list term. You can avoid offense just through that choice. And I don't see enough organizations recognizing that. That's a great example.
Rob Johnson [00:24:58] It is a great example because I sit here and think about whenever I talk about a CEO or a leader or somebody and I'll say him or her, he or she. And I'm thinking, well I'm being inclusive- but what if I use "they"? That's even better if I use it.
Eileen Rochford [00:25:12] Absolutely.
Rob Johnson [00:25:12] You know, they. You know, point well taken. See, I'm just going to sit here and just take notes. I'm sitting here with Eileen. Taking notes.
Eileen Rochford [00:25:21] I totally could. Like, I'm not that smart, but once in a while you might take something out of this.
Rob Johnson [00:25:38] Back to your point. Those are little things that really can become big things if you handle them correctly or conversely, if you don't handle them correctly. And sometimes people say, oh, gosh, times have changed. It's like, yeah, times have changed. You know, you just stated the obvious that times have changed. So, don't be sitting here fighting against it.
Eileen Rochford [00:26:00] Yeah. it's a waste of your time, too, to fight against that when you can reserve that energy for the big fights, the big ideas, the things that are going to improve your future. But why lose on the small stuff? Is what I always say. And, you know, a fumble... Oh god, put this into Super Bowl terms for me since the Super Bowl just happened. What would this what would be the equivalent? A silly mistake.
Rob Johnson [00:26:33] An unforced error. That's more like it.
Eileen Rochford [00:26:35] Just dropped the ball and converted it into a touchdown right. And then ultimately they lost, right, Mr. Eagles quarterback man?
Rob Johnson [00:26:45] Yeah. Listen self-inflicted wounds are the worst because you could have avoided them. And just back to what I was talking about, sales teams and I was talking about a potential client that that didn't see things the way they need to be seen. It was about issues related to what you were talking about, about just having more perspective and being better when it comes to say DEI and equality and things of that nature. And this firm was just like, this is not worth our time. And it's like, "Buddy, everybody's doing it." And I'm doing assessments for sales teams I offered. I was like, I will go and do an assessment with your sales team to figure out why they're not closing deals. Yeah, I think I already know the answer, but I'll go do it. You don't want to know. "We don't care." And so that's the end of the conversation. Remember how we were talking about when somebody says, "I have a CMO, I have a team, I have whatever," and it's like, here are the ways I can help. And if they don't see the shortcomings, then that's the end of the conversation. And when they do, as you know, that's when the relationship can begin.
Eileen Rochford [00:27:56] That's right. My favorite question is, "So why did you hire us?" And that's not in a snarky way. That's genuinely the question, right.
Rob Johnson [00:28:06] Yeah, because you have to be able to listen to what their needs are and have them be able to articulate those needs. And that's when the help begins, Right? Because as you said before, they're paying you for your ideas.
Eileen Rochford [00:28:19] That's right. Yeah, that's true. And outside thinking is some of the best you'll ever get. The minute you stop telling yourself that, that everything that you're hearing inside is music to your ears. I think that's when you start to lose.
Rob Johnson [00:28:33] Right and those are people that maybe I would have really helped that couldn't see the fact they needed the help. And so it's like, you know, hey, I can see it. A lot of people can see it. Probably your sales teams can see it. And if you're living in that bubble, if you're living that glass house, good luck because times have changed. So you may be the last person to figure it out.
Eileen Rochford [00:29:01] Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Well, I just want to bring all this, I guess, to a fine point before we conclude in that, you know, we haven't had time to do a lot of these basics, these foundational skill enhancement refreshes. And we need to go back and make the time now to get those things done, because the longer we wait to do it the rest year and the rest year or the more outdated things become. And when tough times hit a crisis or something else really significant. If you don't have your house in order, you're going to have a much harder time getting through those tough times. Right. So just take it. Take the time. Start with your foundational messaging. That's what we tackled today. But commit to doing a number of these things in 2023 to get yourself in better shape. Because like we all have been saying to each other the last two years, "Wait didn't that just happen? No, that was in 2019."
Rob Johnson [00:30:15] Right. That was years ago.
Eileen Rochford [00:30:16] I might not have seen you touched your, you know, 30 back pages of your website to look for any phrasings that might be bad was probably 2019, for example. So you're going to want to go in there and kind of shake those trees and find the things that shouldn't be there anymore. You fix them. That's what today's conversation was about. We hope we've motivated you to think about that and to dedicate the time to doing so this year. But that's going to do it for the first episode in our multi-part series about refreshing your core communication skills in 2023. And in our next episode, we'll ask the question, Are your spokespeople media ready? I can't wait for that. One of my favorite topics. I'm Eileen Rochford.
Rob Johnson [00:31:05] And I'm Rob Johnson. We thank you so much for listening. And remember, you can find "Can You Hear Me?" wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts. Thanks for listening.