With many leaders hyper-focused on their team’s performance, they are missing out on another factor that should be important to them and IS important to their team. Making sure that the work they are doing is more visible. Having employees who feel valued and recognized is a tremendous motivator that goes beyond the bottom line. Join Can You Hear Me? Podcast co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson as they discuss How to Make Your Team’s Work More Visible.
Myers & Briggs Personality Type and Organizations
Rob Johnson: [00:00:18] Hello everyone and welcome to a special edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. [00:00:24][6.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:25] I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the Harbinger Group, a marketing and strategy firm. This is a special episode because it is the first episode as we begin season five. It is so hard to believe that we've been at this for four years together, Rob. [00:00:40][14.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:00:40] It really is. And it's been an absolute joy, every bit of it, working with you and coming up with these ideas and having interesting guests on and talking about topics that are related to communication, our fields of interest. But I've really, it's, been interesting to see how it's grown. I think how we've grown as collaborators and content creators, but it's it's been really enjoyable. [00:01:03][23.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:04] Thank you. I agree. It's a highlight of my weeks. Very often. It's just fun to be able to dig into things that we don't need to dig into for our jobs per se, but are, you know, they're obviously topics that are related to what we do. It just, it's like going to school on the side and learning from these experts who we bring on the show. You know, we're expanding our own knowledge and sharing that knowledge with our listeners. So it is a very enjoyable thing that we do together. I actually went and added up the amount of time that we now have in the books. And if you can believe this, it's the equivalent of 50 hours of showtime. [00:01:41][37.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:42] Oh my gosh, this is episode 90. So yes, here we here we go. You know the thing that really, and if I can just walk down memory lane just for a second longer, then we'll get to the topic at hand today. For me, when I was newer in this career, now I've been doing it over six years, so I feel pretty confident. There's still a lot to learn, I know that. But we would have guests on and they would share ideas or strategy or things that they were thinking about. And I would say, oh, I'm already doing that, or oh, that's something that I thought of. And so it really helped me early on understand that I am heading in the right direction, I think, with this whole communications consulting thing. That was really fun for me. I mean, you've been at this for a while and you've had a tremendously successful agency for a long time. But for me, it was like, oh, that's what they're doing? That's what I'm doing. All right. Or a good company. [00:02:30][48.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:02:31] Yes! Good validation! [00:02:32][0.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:33] That's right. So anyway, as we jump into year five here, we want to discuss a topic that may be top of mind for you if you lead a team, and that is how to make sure your team's work is more visible. Making sure that the work your team is doing is more visible. Having employees who feel valued and recognized is a tremendous motivator that goes beyond the bottom line. As we do from time to time, we're leaning on the expertise of Harvard Business Review, which published an article of the same name earlier in this year, in January of 2025. So if you listen to the podcast regularly, you know how much we value HBR because of its many professional insights like this one. And I think it's really one of the best professional development publications out there and I lean on it frequently. [00:03:15][42.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:03:16] Absolutely. And why not learn from the best and share and expand on the thoughts that HBR puts out there. It's certainly a tool that both of us read avidly and their data is the best. They're very forward thinking. We love them. We're not going to go into the whole article, however, but it will be in the show notes. So we've picked a few of the most important things out of this to dig into today. We've also got some insights of our own, of course, kind of layering on what we learned from our own clients and from our experiences. And just for me in particular, as an employer leading teams, stories I hear, stories Rob hears, things that we pick up along the way. So we'll be hearing about that today. So the first suggestion though, in the HBR piece is understanding your team. That's a big topic that they dig into in here. What exactly motivates your team? Do you really know? And why is it important to understand what motivates them? In particular, what are their professional goals? What are the things that they do in their personal lives that they might bring to bear in their professional lives? These are all areas of exploration when it comes to understanding the people you lead on your team. And obviously, the answers are going to be very different for each of your team members, I should say. But it's essential even vital to understand their uniqueness and their drivers in terms of motivations and goals. And why do we think that is, Rob? What's your opinion? [00:04:42][85.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:04:43] I think it's fairly simple if I'm reading this correctly, which is there's not one size fits all. So I think as an effective manager, you have to manage people differently. You have to understand some of the issues that you were just talking about, what happens in their personal life that they bring to bear professionally and what motivates them and all sorts of those things. And so I feel like. It's just an extension of knowing the personalities on your team and being able to get the most out of them. And how do I get the best out of it? So I think it's, I don't think it is like a light bulb moment, necessarily. I feel like it's more of a, yeah, you should know those things. If you're effectively leading a team, you should understand that the personalities are different, the motivations are different and the way you get things out of them will be different. [00:05:30][47.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:31] I'll just share one thing that I've learned over the years is it's almost like a two part, the yin and the yang, if you really want to understand the motivations and goals of the people whom you're leading. The first is, of course, you've got to build in personal time. Whether it's you're traveling together and you have dinner the night before a client meeting, those moments, moments like that example, take advantage of them. Don't just small talk, but really explore. That's a time when you're not going to have to talk business, but you can get a peek inside their So take advantage of... Opportunities like that. And if they can't just have them organically, try and create them. So even if you're 100% remote, build in just coffee time, things like that, I think there's that piece of the yin and the yang. And the other piece is you're not using a tool that helps you understand how the people you work with, how their brains work, if you will, and what drives them. There's so many simple ones out there. Five Dynamics is a great one that has free tool version of it. They have a very, very robust paid version of it. There's Myers Briggs says a free version, there are things that you can access. And if everyone does it, then you just kind of get a little understanding of Oh, you know, my colleague over here is highly competitive and loves to reach goals and needs numbers, you know dangled in front of them to say, this is, you have to beat this, beat this. Find the way to beat that, you now. Oh, my person over here, is really, you know empathy is at their core. So how can I get them to really feel the, you know, what's behind this campaign and understand, you know those we're going to serve by communicating it as an example, you in our organization. Those kinds of things. So we'll put these in the show notes, but try and find the two different sides and fill that in. And you're going to have this nice little motivation sandwich of each person and understand. Hey, that's what makes them tick. And if I put them in the right positions, understanding their motivations and their goals, they're gonna do great and be really happy. [00:07:33][122.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:07:34] And I'm really glad you went beyond just the, hey, understand your team, which is how we started this, but you're also providing resources that could arm a leader with the ability and different ways to understand their teams better. So that was, that was very important. [00:07:50][16.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:07:50] And I just want to add one more thing, which is it can feel very daunting, particularly if you're kind of a smaller, you know, midsize organization and you don't have a lot of resources behind you, but it does not have to be robust or expensive to do any of those tests. And as I said, there's free versions. It just, it's a little bit of time and effort. [00:08:05][15.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:08:06] But the payoff is huge. It surely is. That's a great point. So, the next idea that we want to talk about is using multiple channels to gain that visibility. So in other words, leaders have options when showcasing their team's work. It might be performance evaluations, it might be informal conversations, or perhaps public proclamations, and even strategic meetings with critical internal stakeholders. Because, you know, everybody likes an audience with the boss every once in a while, right? But there are different ways that you can go about gaining that and I just named a few of them, but they all have their specific place in that universe. [00:08:41][35.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:08:42] They do. And here's what I've learned over the years. Don't squander them. Nobody likes people who take credit, you know, for work that they didn't do or who give. Gives credit where perhaps it's not due, maybe even unduly so. You have to understand, even if you're trying to kind of prop someone up, someone who maybe is younger, less experienced, needs confidence boost, your intentions may be good in amplifying that kind of younger person's role or increasing it maybe a little more than you should have when you're presenting this strategic, or let's just even say if it's a creative campaign and presenting it to the client or an agency head, don't over inflate people's contributions at the expense of giving credit where it should be given. That actually has kind of become a thing recently. And I've heard about it frequently enough that I think it was, that I thought about, I got to mention that on the show. People may be thinking, oh, I'm going to be doing this person a favor. But if you're not equally acknowledging all of the people, senior, mid-level, wherever they are, who contributed to that success, you may be inflating one person a lot, but you're deflating those other people. So if you are going to give credit in a public environment, you have to be really conscious of how you're highlighting people's contributions, and are you giving enough emphasis to those who really pulled all the weight. Super, super important, and I think is probably the thing that I've been hearing about lately that is kind of pissing people off. [00:10:12][90.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:10:12] I understand the propping someone up, but I don't understand why you would do it to the exclusion of the other people on the team who are doing perhaps equal work or maybe even better work. Because you're right, you're going to have people that kind of look sideways and go, that's not right. That's not fair to the other workers. So yes, you want to build somebody up that's very noble, and it's important and maybe important to you as a leader, but don't sacrifice the credit and the kudos to the people who are also making those meaningful contributions. [00:10:43][30.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:10:44] Yeah, it's a some may think of that as subtle, but it's really not. Everyone hearing that who was who made a huge contribution, maybe even if they're, you know, super senior in the organization, they should be acknowledged. So there's another thought on that end is there's a lot of ageism happening right now in the workplace. And that so folks at the higher end of experience, don't under report their contributions, it's not helping them. So just a little thing to keep in mind, and one that maybe you're not thinking about. So That's why you're under focus on that. [00:11:17][32.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:11:17] Glad you gave the example of ageism too because that gives people something really tangible to think about. What are they talking about? And that's one example, and I think it's an important one, frankly. [00:11:25][7.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:11:25] Yeah, for sure. So another key component to consider is encouraging collaboration for visibility. So allowing your team members to work with others throughout the organization gets them to engage with new and key decision makers. It allows them to be seen, to make a great impression and can also increase your team's influence when leaders in other parts of the company see their impact. So it's a really nice little virtuous circle there by stepping outside your own team that you can. Help individuals be elevated in particular, which is awesome, everybody wants that, but it also can lead to your own team having benefits down the line too. [00:12:04][38.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:12:04] Well, and conversely, to the prior point about pumping somebody up too much, that's not what's going on here. It would be you allowing them to work with somebody else for the other people and the company to see what your team member is doing and then for them to go amplify all the virtues of their great work to other people, which will prop them up. And by extension, it will prop up your entire team. It has the ability to do that too. So I think that that's a really shrewd move. And when you have confidence in somebody and you know their work is good and you have that opportunity to allow them to go work with people they might not normally work with, that can have a positive impact. [00:12:41][36.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:12:41] And you can do this strategically too, particularly organizations or departments like marketing. If you're having trouble getting other departments to understand the importance of marketing, for example, or to understand why is their budget as large as it is, giving them more access and visibility to your, you know, brightest folks. In ways that can be useful to those departments and helps them to accomplish things. That's your foot in the door that really starts the conversation and understanding so that when you're asking for things in the future or needing help paving the way with projects, those people can be advocates for you. So it's awesome. [00:13:21][39.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:13:21] That's a really terrific point because having worked with a lot of clients who have those marketing departments and a lot times it's like marketing and they're going to go do their thing in a silo, but if they're gonna be successful, they're not doing it in a Let's be honest about that. But to your point, being able to have somebody that could go illustrate the importance of what it means to be marketing, to be getting your name out there, to making sure that you're looking for all strategic ways to positively convey what is going on in the company, that's marketing. And sometimes people say, oh, it's just marketing. But I think we've learned in this day and age, it is not just marketing, and some of those people can be some of your greatest ambassadors if they can make the case subtly or not so subtly to the people and other parts of the company. [00:14:07][45.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:14:07] Another great example is communication. So your communication department often is kind of locked up working for maybe the CEO or the C-suite or executive leadership team. But if you can get them that greater understanding to exist in other departments, that validation helps your communication function have access to what are those other folks doing and your writing becomes better, you're better able to give counsel, lots of things. So there's another example, for sure. [00:14:38][30.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:14:38] I think those are really powerful examples too, so good job on that. So again, Eileen said earlier that we're not going to get to every detail in this article, but we're providing the show notes, as she mentioned. So if you want to read the whole thing, you can. But the final thing that I think we want to talk about today relative to this whole idea of making sure that the work is being. Is being shared and is being, you know, visible is the importance of ensuring that the credit is distributed in ways the team will appreciate. And this gets back to different personalities, kind of where we jumped on, we're essentially jumping off here. Some people love being front and center and basking in the accolades. Others prefer remaining behind the scenes and receiving the credit in more nuanced ways. And that's simply, again, understanding the personalities on your team, so. Right. Some people love to be like, yeah, I did that. And let me take six bows. And you're like, okay, whatever floats your boat, we'll do it. And then there are other people that are like, I'm so happy and I'm proud of the work we did. And I'm glad that it's visible, but I don't need to sit there and take all of these bows. [00:15:43][64.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:15:44] And the one thing I would add to that is those, every single one of those people, whether they're the, Hey, I love it. Shower with me with all the good praise folks, or the people are just like, I just want to, you know, get the work done. know, satisfaction enough for me. Every one of the people you manage deserves for you to take the time, make the effort to document this and put it in their file, if you will, for reference when it comes around to whatever you do in your organization. If there is a formal performance review period, if it's just linked to comp, whatever you do, do them the favor of creating a record of all the wonderful things they have done in major contributions. Now, that's something that not every leader will do. So side note, if that's the kind of leader you have, listener, then as always, I highly encourage you to keep your own documentation of the awesome work that you do. Build that file so that you have your own case, you know, to. Go after the best compensation package that you can and that you deserve. That's advocating for yourself. But leaders, that's who we're talking to right now on today's show. It's not enough just to stand in front of the leadership team with the campaign or this strategy or the plan that you've created with these team members and say so and so was instrumental in this component and we couldn't have done it without so and so and here's what they did. That's not. You need to go to the next step and put it down so that it's included in the picture when decisions are being made about their promotions and compensation. That is my opinion. I think it's important for us all to think about that. It always feels good to say, you're amazing, but to actually document it for people, that's where things start to take shape and really matter. That's my opinion." [00:17:36][112.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:17:37] I was going to say, it doesn't cost anything to make that effort. And then I realized, oh, if we're talking about comp, it may cost you something to talk about the positive. [00:17:46][8.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:17:45] But they deserve it. They deserve it [00:17:48][2.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:17:48] But you even just referenced it a second ago, if you're not one of those leaders, or you're working for one of the people that doesn't want to do that, then you need to be documenting it on your own. Because for as good a work as you might be doing, there are certain places out there. That you feel like, hey, we all had success. We all deserve to be rewarded. And some people are like, man, if I put that in writing, I don't have any wiggle room and I may have to pay them more. And I don t want to pay that much more. Sadly, there are people and I think everybody knows a few of them or have worked for a few them that they feel like doing that. It's not necessarily a sign of weakness. It s a sign, oh gosh, if tell them how great they are and I outline it, then they're going to want more money. And sometimes they don't want to do when, in fact, it would be... Probably a small investment. If this person is really valuable to your team, then yeah, you probably need to be doing it. Is everybody willing to do it? Absolutely not. [00:18:40][52.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:18:41] Well, I think we can end this portion of our discussion with this thought. The greatest reflection on you as a leader is how well your people are doing and how well you are doing communicating their successes. That is the gosh darn truth, if you will. [00:18:58][16.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:19:00] No, it's true and it is completely reflective of the kind of leadership that you have and don't think for a second that it isn't. Because when everybody's thriving, when the work is good, and then everybody knows about the work, that's going to be a win-win for not only you, but your team as well. And that should be the goal. [00:19:20][20.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:20] Should be the goal. When times get tough and decisions may have to be made about cuts and other things, if you have consistently amplified, elevated your people's contributions, it's going to be a lot easier for you to fight to keep them. So that's just our thoughts for the day. And it all boils down to communication. Because as we've said repeatedly, and I'm going to be reaching here for a famous guest who said communication is everything. Um, so whoever you are, forgive me for my lapsed in memory at the moment, but you're amazing. Best guest we ever had. [00:19:53][33.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:19:54] That's it's true and it's important. [00:19:55][1.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:56] That is a lot of wisdom right there packed into one little piece with a bunch of expansion from Rob Johnson and myself, which we hope you will find valuable. [00:20:06][9.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:20:06] We hope so. [00:20:07][0.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:20:07] Yes. So if you want to learn more about this subject, as we said, we will link to the article in show notes. And hopefully you still have a couple of free articles from HBR left this month. [00:20:17][10.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:20:19] They're excellent, as they always are. So that's going to do it for another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson. If you want to comment on the podcast or suggest a topic, please contact us at the Can You hear Me? Podcast page on [00:20:32][13.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:20:34] Yes, and I'm Eileen Rochford. If you like what you heard today or on past episodes, we would love it if you would consider giving Can You Hear Me a positive review wherever you get your podcasts like Apple and Spotify as your reviews help other listeners to find our show. Thanks for listening and we hope you learned something today. [00:20:34][0.0]
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