With communications specialists in higher demand than ever for companies who understand their value, it is important to hire the best talent to ensure that comms messaging is clear and concise, especially for C-Suite executives. In this episode of the Can You Hear Me? Podcast, co-hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford welcome executive search expert Jessica Bayer to discuss “How to Hire the Best Communicators.”
Jessica serves as the Managing Partner of DHR’s Corporate Affairs and Communications Practice, based in Washington, D.C. With a strong, global network and experience leading C-level searches within the communications space, Jessica develops and maintains strong relationships with industry leaders, understands the evolving nature of agencies and is a trusted advisor to her clients.
Prior to joining DHR, Jessica served more than five years as an Executive Director at a communications executive search firm. Earlier in her career, Jessica was Vice President of U.S. Talent Acquisitions with one of the top 10 public relations agencies. She led senior-level recruitment across the agency’s corporate, financial, technology, healthcare, consumer, brand marketing and brand marketing and digital practices. Jessica began her search career as senior recruiter with a multinational communication and public relations firm, where she developed business and recruitment strategies.
Jessica has a demonstrated history of recruiting across industries for public relations, communications and marketing roles. Her focus is on corporate communications, consumer and brand marketing, investor relations, talent marketing, media relations, internal communications, public affairs, corporate social responsibility, technology communications, healthcare communications, financial communications, crisis communications, social and digital.
She graduated from Louisiana State University with a bachelor’s degree in public relations and a minor in business administration.
Rob Johnson: [00:00:18] Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me Podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, President of Rob Johnson Communications. [00:00:25][6.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:26] And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the Harbinger Group, a marketing and strategy firm. As big companies focus more deeply on hiring the best communicators and as those communicators gain more influence in C-suites everywhere, hiring the right chief communications officer is more important than ever. [00:00:43][16.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:00:43] That is so true, and to discuss this today, we are very fortunate to have a guest who knows a lot about this subject. Her name is Jessica Bayer, managing partner of corporate affairs for DHR Global, a global executive search firm. Jessica, welcome to Can You Hear Me? Thanks for joining us today. [00:01:01][17.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:01] Thank you. Thank you, happy to be here. Jessica, before we take a deeper dive or look, I guess, at this emerging trend, why don't you give our listeners a little bit of background, you know, basically your origin story so they kind of believe that you are who you say you are. [00:01:18][16.9]
Jessica Bayer: [00:01:20] I'm not an AI bot just yet. [00:01:21][1.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:21] That's right. She's real. [00:01:22][0.9]
Jessica Bayer: [00:01:22] I know. So breathing. Well, I have been recruiting in the communication space for about 20 years. So started off, Eileen, sounds like you did as well in the PR agency world. So I recruited at Burson Marsteller and at MSL Group for about 12 years. And then I hit a point where I had recruited every single person in the world who wanted to be at an agency. And I kind of hit the end of that. And every time I talked to someone, they were like, look, call me when you have an in-house opportunity. But if you're a recruiter in the agency world, you know what you never have? An in-house opportunity. So I decided to make the switch to executive search about seven years ago and started at a boutique executive search firm really focused on placing chief communications officers. And then two years ago, I was recruited over to DHR Global, which shockingly had no one focused on facing chief communications officer. So I came in to build and lead the corporate affairs executive search function. I've been doing it for about two years. We strategically decided to make sure it wasn't just comms because comms is evolving so much. So we consider corporate affairs, communications, government affairs, investor relations, marketing and social impact. So I oversee recruitment for our corporate clients in those spaces. Oh, that's fantastic. [00:02:47][84.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:47] I really like it that you said that it's not just comms because comms is is changing so quickly What are you seeing out there? What do you mean by that? [00:02:55][8.2]
Jessica Bayer: [00:02:56] Yeah, I mean, you know, every couple of years, I feel like there's something else that communicators have to be an expert in. So a few years ago, it's like pre COVID market, it was all about the influencers and all comms people really needed to understand marketing. And you saw this like merge of comms and marketing. And then if you fast forward to 2023, and the economy was uncertain, and everyone wanted to talk to their investors, it became comms that investor relations. And then today, I mean, I don't think I've ever recruited so many communications people who have to have government affairs, public policy, public affairs background to navigate the current state of affairs in the United States. So it's been an evolution, but I feel like communicators are consistently asked to do more and more. [00:03:39][43.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:03:39] Why do you think that there's been such an evolution? And what you were just talking about, it sounds like it started kind of with COVID. For the last five years, they've been asked to take on so much more. And the job description is different. Why is that? And how has that necessary expertise changed? Or why has it changed so much? [00:03:57][18.4]
Jessica Bayer: [00:03:58] Yeah, there was a study that came out a few years ago, and I don't know if this is directly tied to this study, but it's nice to put numbers and data against communicators. But it was a steady that came out from the World Economic Forum that was able to. Attached 25% of a company's revenue can be directly tied to their corporate reputation. And I think it just opened the eyes of CEOs and other executives thinking about, oh my gosh, our corporate reputation and our narrative matters to consumers, investors, shareholders, stakeholders, et cetera. And then if we look at George Floyd, when folks really wanted to hear from CEOs and the stance that they were going to take on social justice issues, It just it's constantly just like evolved a little bit more and more and consumers are just smarter about purchases and businesses and there's a lot of opportunities to buy from different places. And this is B2C and B2B. And so you really want to believe in the company that you're purchasing something from and that's attached to their corporate reputation and giving back. So it's just been an evolution I think that's happened as consumers and folks have become more savvy. Thank you very much. [00:05:02][64.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:02] Yeah, yeah, we have seen that too. And the thing that it's fascinating to watch all this change at kind of this breakneck speed, first of all, then your job, trying to keep up with that must be very, very challenging, I would imagine. But the breadth of skills that comes, you know, high, high level, comes people now must have almost seems impossible. What do you think, almost like you're looking for unicorns? [00:05:27][25.0]
Jessica Bayer: [00:05:27] Um, it's become more, I guess, complicated or complex, you know, the folks who have. I have seen the communicators rise to the top. Those folks really have business acumen and they understand how a company makes money. They understand how corporate reputation and narrative can impact the bottom line of a business and they can sit side by side with the CEO or CFO or general counsel and understand the pain that keeps them up at night and really help a company navigate those things. So it's, you know, it's in the beginning, back 20 years ago when I started recruiting, it was like, tell me about your role with that And who do you know in media? And now it's like, do you understand how this company actually makes money? And can you align a communication strategy with that? [00:06:09][42.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:06:10] Yeah. What would you say are the kind of common, I don't know, skill sets that you see or even degrees these days? Are you seeing more of these very high-level comms people have, MBAs for example, or advanced degrees of some sort? Curious. [00:06:27][17.0]
Jessica Bayer: [00:06:27] Yeah, so I sort of like feel guilty at night sometimes when I think about this. So 20 years ago, people were like, should I go and get an MBA? I'm like, you're in comms. You don't need that. Just keep on keeping on at this PR agency. And now I'm, like, oh, no. I do think an MBA in advanced degree or like a minor in business or just being able to sit close to a senior executive like a CEO and understand the business more is critical. It is critical, it is imperative, you know, whenever we're recruiting a chief communications officer, it's never really about like technical skills anymore. It's more about like EQ and ability to influence and ability to be credible and speak the language and all of the things are just kind of not as tangible as media relationships, it's evolved, it's evolving. [00:07:19][51.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:07:20] I think that's interesting because it feels like that's where the world's going, Jessica, in terms of being a subject matter expert matters. It clearly does. Having IQ, understanding how to get things done, they all matter. But more and more, I feel like Eileen and I are talking about we're having guests on, we're exploring the whole EQ portion of this equation far more than we used to. And that seems to be where a lot of these people are in high demand in those roles where there needs to be some nuance. [00:07:46][26.1]
Jessica Bayer: [00:07:47] Absolutely. I mean, I couldn't agree more. And it's something that you can't just learn overnight. It's got to come from experience. And so, you know, sometimes I talk to folks and they're like, oh, everyone wants an up and comer. And I'm like, no, a lot of people really want someone who's been battle tested and has handled so many crises that no crisis scares them anymore and they know how to navigate that. So I think experience really helps with the EQ base. [00:08:10][22.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:08:11] Yeah. And do you ever give advice to younger professionals, even mid-level, about what kind of experiences should they be seeking out to be prepared if they want to ascend to that level of, you know, communicator in senior level, I guess, in organization? [00:08:25][14.4]
Jessica Bayer: [00:08:26] Yeah, I mean, I think that there's this like misconception that you need to go somewhere else to get experience. So I'm not getting this experience at my current company, I need to go somewhere else and get that experience. But honestly, people want to hire folks who have already done the job. So my advice is always wherever you are, take on more, absorb, ask to sit in meetings, ask to sit in the investor meetings, like get closer to different functional areas so you can learn more about the business and get the experience where you are now, and then you can take that experience somewhere else. But don't rely on someone else to give you that opportunity or that experience. You really have to go seek it out yourself. [00:09:04][38.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:09:04] Yes. Do you guys listen to the Dr. Rob Gilbert success hotline? Have you heard of it? No, but I have not. Okay. I'll just mention it because it's one of my favorite things these days. He's put out like 19,000 daily messages. Maybe that's a gross exaggeration. I don't know. It's a lot. Doesn't matter. Last week, my favorite advice from him was the theme of that call was do more than is expected and you will succeed every time. Which I just can't get that phrase out of my head since I heard him say it. And I think you're totally right. A hundred percent. You gotta do it. You gotta it. It gets you so far. [00:09:39][34.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:09:39] Everybody's looking for a differentiator, right? Everybody's looking for an advantage, and there's so many things out there in your job that you don't control, but that effort, that attention to detail is something you do control. So the question is, why wouldn't you do it? It makes perfect sense. [00:09:53][13.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:09:53] Yeah. Yeah. It's fabulous advice. Okay. So, Rob, gosh, we have just jumped right in here. Let's get back to some of the things we said we were going to talk about. No, this is great. Okay. How about if I jump into the bit about many CEOs who take these jobs wanting to influence CEOs? How can they gain that influence with the bosses and what does that look like from a management standpoint, Jessica? What do you think? [00:10:18][25.2]
Jessica Bayer: [00:10:19] Yeah, so I talked to a lot of people who are like, I will not take a job where I report to a CMO. I will not take a job where report to CHRO. I will not take a job report to the general counsel. And what I say to everybody is like, you're not necessarily going to walk in the door with the perfect reporting structure. If the CEO doesn't understand the value of communications or the CEO has too many direct reports, sometimes it just doesn't make sense to report. So I can't like, I need everyone to understand it doesn't matter really where you report as long as you have that influence and that influence comes with time and credibility and showing results and getting quick wins. And then once you start to build it, you can challenge the CEO a little bit more. But again, you cannot come in expecting everyone to be on the same page. And what happens is if someone has been somewhere for a long time, 10 years, sometimes they think, when I go to my next company, I'm going to have that same rapport with the C-suite. And you don't. You have to start over and you have to build. So it takes time. It takes understanding other people's priorities. It takes speaking that language and gradually getting there and then getting those wins and showing those results. And that's the beauty of communications today also is you can show KPIs, you can really show results in data where before marketing was able to do that and so they got the budget. But now comms can really show those data points and success moments. And that what you have to do to like prove kind of your worth and your success. So I would say like, when you're taking a job or looking at a job or looking a company, understand that you're kind of in charge of your destiny at that company and you have to build that rapport on those relationships. Don't, again, don't walk in the door expecting everyone to be like, oh my god, you're the best thing that's ever happened to us. You really have to shut the risk- [00:12:04][105.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:12:05] And also just because you walk in the door, and you and I were talking about this when we were discussing the podcast, you walk into the door as a CCO doesn't mean that's where you're going to end up as the CCO, right? I mean, this whole building trust thing can be a stepping stone to something more as it comes to other positions that might be more elevated. [00:12:22][17.3]
Jessica Bayer: [00:12:22] Yeah, I mean, my nodding head, I guess the viewers can't see that. But yes, there's this whole conversation, Robert, you and I talked about with the corporate affairs function. And, you know, that role, the chief corporate affairs officer role doesn't exist a lot of places. And if it does exist, a lot of times it was built internally by someone who was able to align several functions and show the benefit of having comms, investor relations, government affairs, whatever it is, all together, and then you build this function. But if that person leaves, that position may not exist anymore and it may go back down to, you know, four or five separate functions. And then the next person that comes in, whether it's a CCO or head of government affairs, has to kind of build it again. So you have to, it's role that when you're aligning functions, you have show the benefit and why all like Rising Tide raises all ships, everyone working together, but you have just show that it doesn't, it's not a role that. Common as common as it should be. [00:13:22][59.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:13:22] A really good point. [00:13:23][0.6]
Jessica Bayer: [00:13:23] Yeah [00:13:23][0.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:13:24] So there may be listeners out here who are not as familiar with the CCO role as they are with, say, the chief marketing officer, the CMO. What are the differences? Because it feels like they're at pretty similar points in the organizational structure. And is one more important than the other in your estimation? [00:13:43][18.9]
Jessica Bayer: [00:13:44] That question. No, I mean, short answer, no, I don't think one role is more important. What's interesting is when I came to DHR to build this corporate affairs function, nobody understood comms and it was very much marketing. And so I had to spend a lot of time even within the walls of where I work right now, explaining the importance of communications. I think there are industries that sometimes value one more than the other. So consumer industries may lean more marketing and more like highly regulated B2B may lean more comms and say comms is more important. But I think both working hand in hand and understanding the priorities and goals of each other is going to make everyone better. So no, I don't think one is better than the other. I think, both are critical and have to work closely together. [00:14:32][48.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:14:33] Yeah, really good point. So with the way that we found you, Jessica, is, and it's not like you're, you know, my best friend, I've never met you before. I found you on LinkedIn, because you had written a great post that truly caught my attention. And it was about the role of the CCO as a chief of staff. Is that correct? Yes, that is correct. So tell us why you wrote that. And what is the significance of that issue in the C suite right now? Yeah, I had no idea that people... [00:15:02][29.3]
Jessica Bayer: [00:15:03] People are gonna respond in the way that they did. So I'm actually right now, so I live in DC, but I'm in Dallas right now at a conference called the Page Society Conference, and it's a bunch of CCOs get together. It brings me back to kind of how the post came to life. So one of my clients is a major airlines, and they were looking for a number two to be the VP of corporate reputation. And the thing about this airlines is everyone came to this company and the comms team and stayed forever. And it was just, you know, the whole team was built around people who had been in the airline industry forever. So my remit in bringing in this VP of corporate reputation was go find someone from outside the industry who can add value. And part of my job or just my life is talking to communicators every day. So I went out into the market, kind of looked at people I knew and pulled together five candidates to present for this role. Four were like on the nose. They made the most sense. Like, of course, like, yeah, we're going to hire like, that makes sense. They weren't from the airline industry, but had, you know, comparable experience. And one person was a chief of staff and my hiring manager was like, you know, Jess, these four make sense. This one doesn't. I trust you. Let I'll interview all five. And this chief of stuff got the job. And the reason that she got the. Job is she strategically made a decision to leave her head of comms role and take a chief-of-staff role at a startup, a chief of staff to the CEO. So she could get more involved with the business and the day to day of the business and the board and the people who report to the CEO and just learn more about the business. And she really felt like that would make her more effective as a chief communications officer later. And she got the job for that exact reason. She was able to speak in a way that other communicators may speak in like jargon and comms jargon, but she was able to speak with that business mindset. So she got that job. And since then, And I've talked to a lot of people who are like, look, I'm thinking about my next step. Is it take this role as VP of external columns or take this roll as chief of staff to a CEO. And I just, you know, I think that there's a lot of value in learning more about the business. This is like the MBA of it all. Like go get an MBA by being a chief of stuff. And so I just found that this is something that I think makes sense for communicators if they can't find that CCO role. And it turns out from that post that a lot of people agree and a lot of people are doing that. So just the more knowledge you can gain about a business and especially if you ever want to work for a founder, like that's just a whole new beast. Um, you have to really understand what keeps them up at night and how to really move the needle with those executives [00:17:43][160.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:17:43] Jessica, what makes communications people really good at being chiefs of staff? [00:17:49][5.2]
Jessica Bayer: [00:17:49] I mean, they understand the entire company and everyone's function and know how to communicate and storytell and know how to speak to different functional areas. So I think the whole point of like being a comms person, right, like, cause you know the EQ piece, but you understand how to read people and their priorities and then tell a story that resonates. So if you're a good CCO, you can do that with every C-suite executive. And then if you are a chief of staff, they will value your expertise in that role. Also, you know, you just have the benefit of being able to do internal comms, too, and internal comm has become almost as critical as external comms. And we all know that internal comms always goes external anyway, so you have to be prepared for that. So a chief of staff can do a better job, I think, with internal comm as well. [00:18:37][48.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:18:37] So this had to be a little surprising because even Eileen said when she was reading it like, oh my gosh, this makes so much sense. But this isn't where you spend day in and day out in your job, Jessica. And yet it struck a chord with so many people who read it. Why do you think this issue right now is being consumed in the way that it is by those of us who read? [00:18:59][21.9]
Jessica Bayer: [00:19:00] You know, I think people just understand the business acumen piece. There's an also, you know, there's not as many CCO jobs out there as there are people looking for CCOs. So I think folks are also trying to figure out what's another path that keeps me on my path to CCO. But I think it's the combination of business acumin and the combination of like job opportunity and what's out there. And then a CEO also, you know want someone who's in their corner day to day that can can learn their voice and learn how to speak internally and externally and a chief of staff with a comms background can just probably do that better. [00:19:35][35.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:36] Yeah. The chief of chiefs of staff with whom I work now and have worked, you know, most recently, they really are in kind of like a ride along position. They're like a body double, the CEO. Yeah. [00:19:45][9.6]
Jessica Bayer: [00:19:46] Oh, yeah, they're in the airplane. They're flying to wherever we're going. Yeah. And a lot of times it's like chief of staff and executive comms or chief of Staff and internal comms. And then what happened in that post, the LinkedIn post, is I found out, I didn't know this ahead of time, that a lot of CCOs operate as the chief of staff, they just don't have that in their title. So there's a lot of like merging that was that's happening behind the scenes that I even wasn't aware of. [00:20:13][26.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:20:13] Yeah. And I love seeing this trend, you know, for many reasons, but mostly because the concept of seat at the table for communications, I mean, we're no longer talking about it now in the way that we did for 25 years, thank God. But it just kind of, this position assumes that your seat at a table is 100% solidified. And that you can have that influence and absorb the information and develop skills as you've described, Jess. You can do all of that, but really the contribution that you could make to the organization, it's truly immense. Yeah, as we well know, having people like us as part of the conversations before things, you know, get serious or bad is really crucial. We can just, we just intuit things that others don't. I think, yes. [00:21:03][49.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:21:02] We've been advocates for it for so long, and now we're seeing it happen right before our eyes, and it's deserved, I think, but it's nice to see it nevertheless, that it's not like, hey, you're part of the solution, don't go run off in your silo and try to figure things out. I think that's just a lot better way to do business, I might say. [00:21:19][16.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:19] Yeah. So let's see. I do want to ask just kind of open, you know, blank invitation to you, Jessica. You kind of have a feel for our listeners and what we tend to talk about in the show. Is there anything you'd like to say to communicators or C-suite folks? Those are the people who tend to listen to our show the most. Anything you want to say from your position of authority? Is it authority? Get out of here, get out of there. Aw, come on. [00:21:45][26.3]
Jessica Bayer: [00:21:46] Credibility [00:21:46][0.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:21:46] elevated. Yes, it is. [00:21:48][1.2]
Jessica Bayer: [00:21:48] Yeah! Yeah, I feel like the folks who are listening to the show probably get it. And it's just, you know, it's one of those things that you have to continue to educate folks around you. It is not a shoe in a CCO seat at the table or CCO reporting structure or C.C.O. Like adding value isn't every company is different and not every company gets it. So just never assume that you're walking into a situation where everyone understands your value. You have to. Continue to prove that value. And maybe in five years, maybe in 10 years, we'll be there and we don't have to like fight the fight anymore. But I mean, even for me, two years ago, coming into this job that I came into and realizing for the first time, because I had been always in the PR agency world or surrounded by comms people and everyone got it and we all drank the Kool-Aid. And then I got to DHR and they were like, what's comms? You have to like continue to fight that battle and just like keep on fighting the good fight and showing the value and understanding corporate reputations and how critical they are for a business for a company and for the success of a business is great and you know it's interesting because we have a board practice here where we place board members and Heather Smith who runs our board practice and I were talking the we talk a lot and boards have been requesting for more communicators to be on boards because now that CEOs are to take a stance on social issues. Not every they don't always trust the CCO so but they do trust the board member and the board's advising folks. So just like you know you're we're continuing you're going to continue to fight this battle we're not there yet. You know we will get there um but you know show the value and worth and if you can attach a KPI or data and analytics to the communications function do it. [00:23:24][95.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:23:24] That's so important. All right, final word on, before we conclude here, where you talked about the evolution over just maybe three to five years. Where's the thing headed in the next 18 to 24 months, if you have your crystal ball in front of you? [00:23:37][13.0]
Jessica Bayer: [00:23:38] So I do think that teams are going to shrink. So every single person in a communications corporate affairs function has to be valuable and very good. So there's no room for, you know, people who are complacent or just like getting a paycheck. So just make sure every single person or team is adding value and has that value. There's a lot of really good communicators out there. But continue to work towards the evolution of the corporate affairs function, because if you have the communications team, the government affairs team, the marketing team, the investor relations team, all working in lockstep to tell a story that resonates with all of your shareholders and stakeholders, that's where you're really gonna make an impact. So let's continue to make sure we're all working together and reporting structures, again, I don't care, but make sure everyone's on the same page and that's what companies are really gonna see value and success. [00:24:27][49.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:27] That's great. Are there any particular skills, particularly human centric, that you strongly recommend people continue to build as they drink? [00:24:37][9.9]
Jessica Bayer: [00:24:39] Well, you know, internal communications is still something that a lot of companies haven't figured out, especially with unwired workforce or, you know, labor that aren't attached to a computer. So I think continuing to figure out how to reach those employees and understanding that an internal comms message is going to go external because like all the leaking of emails is, you know, on purpose. And then, you know, the external communications piece, I think it's like leading with credibility, transparency, authenticity, and not trying to hide it. Like PR, do y'all remember when PR was like a bad word? It's not a bad world. It's really telling the truth and telling the story. So continue to find that authentic voice for your company and stand behind it. And, you just continue to understand when you wanna push on your C-suite and when you should pump the brakes. And you don't have to fight every battle, like pick your battles. [00:25:32][52.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:25:32] Yeah. That's great. Closing advice. Thank you. I'm sure our listeners are really going to be grateful for every piece of advice you've given us today. Jessica Bayer, Managing Partner of Corporate Affairs at DHR Global, thank you for being on Can You Hear Me today? We really appreciate it. So fun. Let's do it again. Yeah, let's. You are another guest who I could think of 10 more things that I'd like to talk about with you. So yes, we will do this again. [00:26:01][28.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:02] Thanks so much for being with us, Jessica. We appreciate it. And that's going to do it for another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson. If you'd like to comment on the podcast or suggest a topic, please contact us at our Can You Hear Me podcast page on LinkedIn, or you could subscribe to our newsletter on that same page. [00:26:19][17.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:20] Newsletter. Very excited about that. Be sure to sign up for it. And I am Eileen Rochford. If you liked what you heard today, please consider giving Can You Hear Me a positive review wherever you get your podcasts such as Apple or Spotify. This will help other listeners find our shows. So thanks for doing that and thank you for listening. [00:26:20][0.0]
[1535.7]