On Episode 10 of “Can You Hear Me,” we will take a closer look at what we call the Overwhelm Hangover, what it is and what it means, and ways to rid yourself of it. As this year comes to an end it is time to reset, prioritize, and organize, so that our 2022 exceeds our 2021 and leaves 2020 far in the rear-view! Leaders, it's time to lead the great reset!
Resources:
https://hbr.org/2021/09/do-you-feel-a-lack-of-meaning-at-work-you-could-be-languishing
https://theeverygirl.com/how-to-admit-youre-overwhelmed-at-work/
Six tips to dealing with Covid Anxiety
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/04/1033672045/6-tips-for-coping-with-covid-anxiety-this-fall-and-winter
Depression and anxiety went down in 2021 but still remained high.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/health/covid-depression-anxiety.html
Anxiety and depression fluctuated with Covid 19 Waves
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/anxiety-depression-fluctuated-covid-19-waves-study/story?id=80475431
Co-host, CEO and business owner Eileen Rochford shares her own experience dealing with a prolonged overwhelm Hangover during much of 2021 and the approaches she has used to begin to turn things around again. Rob and Eileen share their professional advice on how leaders should lead the move to reset our workforce, starting with themselves and then encouraging their teams to take the time to care for their own mental health. Bend, don't break! Tons of tips and personal insights to learn from on Episode 10 of Can you Hear Me?
CYHM Episode 10
Rob Johnson [00:00:15] A lot has changed for many of us since the pandemic hit, working from home with a family that was quarantined at home with you, incessant meetings, even without long commutes, the feeling of uncertainty right when vaccines started to take hold and people felt ready to return to normal activity. The Delta variant hit on episode 10 of Can You Hear Me? We will take a closer look at the overwhelming hangover, what it is, what it means and ways to rid yourself of it as this year comes to an end. It's time to reset, prioritize and organize so that our 2022 exceeds our 2020 and 2021. Hello and welcome to another episode of the Can You Hear Me podcast. We're grateful that you joined us. I'm Rob Johnson of Rob Johnson Communications,
Eileen Rochford [00:01:11] I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm The Harbinger Group. Here on the Can You Hear Me podcast, we focus on how communications impacts major world and organizational issues, CEO communications, everything from branding, signaling and leading, and how all of these can reinforce trust and authenticity when handled properly.
Rob Johnson [00:01:32] That's right. Today's topic is geared toward those who have really struggled to adapt to the fast-changing world since the pandemic began. You started working from home many times. Your family was quarantined right there with you, with nowhere to go, even though you weren't commuting anymore, saving time on that end. You had more time to get things done, but many times that meant bosses stacking your day with even more meetings and having to "keep your head above water" mentally. Many businesses struggled to survive, requiring deep staff cuts and more work hours for those who remained. We've all endured a prolonged state of crisis for 18 months, and it's taken a significant toll on us mentally and physically.
Eileen Rochford [00:02:14] And mental health should be at the top of the list when it comes to resetting, prioritizing and organizing your new normal world right now. It's definitely a high priority for me and for my team at the Harbinger Group, and I really want to discuss this topic of what I keep referring to as "overwhelm" and general anxiety for a few reasons today. So one, we're beginning to do significantly more in-person meetings. I don't know if you're experiencing the same level Rob. But we are at in-person meetings or traveling to in-person meetings and all that goes along with that. We're doing a lot of on site working as well with clients, and I know lots of other people are too. We're also going to networking events, so the days are longer. All that adds up. And I've noticed lots of folks are talking about kind of the effects of that, and they're recognizing that they're finding the reentry to be both exhilarating and draining. And that seems like normal, right? You would imagine that that would be the case if you'd been kind of out of circulation for so long, that's normal. But to me, it felt like something as business leaders we should start talking about and examining kind of the implications for us as we get closer and closer to not having, you know, these constraints that arose due to the pandemic anymore. And we settle into this new normal, right? So there's there's just a lot of impact on people,
Rob Johnson [00:03:47]I think the other thing too is by talking about it, Eileen, you realize that there are other people dealing with it. I mean, obviously, we know that people are dealing with it, but it helps when you're talking to people and we'll get into that a little bit later about just shared experience. Oh, you're feeling that too. And I think that's really important to do.
Eileen Rochford [00:04:05] Absolutely. The other reason I was super excited to tackle this topic today is so there's a personal connection. I've personally been dealing with ongoing feelings of overwhelm myself, and it's like I've been in this perseveration loop of worry, coupled with just struggling to do everything and then capped off with being quick to fatigue. All of these things are foreign. This is not how I typically operate, it's just it's not normal. But I just want to be clear this has not this is not depression. I haven't felt depressed. I haven't had any anxiety attacks. And I know so many people close to me who struggle with those symptoms and they suffer so greatly. My heart totally goes out to them. But that's really not how I felt. It's not been to that degree of severity. it's like this lingering overwhelm has impacted me in smaller ways. So I've struggled with sleeping. Staying asleep is my issue. I can fall asleep because, like I said, I am exhausted. Yeah, but I can't stay asleep. I can't stay asleep more than like three or four hours, typically. And just generally, this overall decline in well-being and I was I was struggling with that for months over much of this year, actually. My identity is really rooted in being energetic and highly productive. So this was an extraordinarily frustrating time. I just think it's important that we all be honest about that. You know, everyone is being affected in different ways, and that's just my own, kind of, you know, examples of impact. But in the last two months, things are really on the upswing, and I've been using some specific approaches consistently. And they have started to take hold and work.
Rob Johnson [00:06:01] So you want to share any of those with us?
Eileen Rochford [00:06:03] In our discussion, I will absolutely talk about them. You bet I will. But just this big picture, like my personal situation, what I'm hearing from folks who work with us, our clients, my friends, lots of executives, it's all got me thinking about how everyone else is feeling and how leaders and executives are likely experiencing just very similar struggles. You know, and employees everywhere, they're talking about how hard everything feels. So that's why we land on the topic. We just need to discuss how leaders need a reset. And they also need to recognize that their employees and their colleagues, they need to reset. They need to be given the grace and space to do it. Plus, I think we need to talk about tools that can help us all make these shifts in order to get back on track. And like you said, Rob, my personal hope is just by talking about it, getting it out there, we can encourage, particularly leaders, to model that this reset is needed. How to do it and set that example so that their people can take that time and space to do it for themselves.
Rob Johnson [00:07:14] I think these are all very important things to talk about, Eileen, and I love it that you're willing to share this because it is a huge issue. And I would say that the sleep piece for me has been the one thing where it's manifested itself. I used to work nights in the TV business. Now I don't and you know, by like o'clock, I'm like, Man, I am exhausted and I can go to bed in like 10 seconds. And then about 3:00, 4:00 in the morning, some mornings, not all of them. And my mind just starts racing. I got to do this. I got to do that. I got to do this. Do I get up and do I go to my office, do I start knocking this out that? Do I take a nap from six to eight? I think about these things. And one of the great things about the weekend is, I can say on a Friday night, I go to bed and I can sleep pretty soundly because I'm like, OK, I know generally Saturdays. I don't have to deal with some of these pressing issues that are right in front of me, so I can relate from that standpoint. And I think it's very important to talk about and it's frustrating and whenever I have a good night's sleep. I'm like, Oh my God, I'm going to have a great day. And even when I don't have a good night's sleep, I'm like, OK, I'll have to mix in a little bit more meditation because I do that on a frequent basis, and that helps me clear my head and give me, you know, the refocus that I need as well. So before we dive deeper into this topic, we also want to set a couple of parameters for assisting you with the COVID anxiety if you're dealing with it. If you listen to it, you know that we like to highlight various reference materials and these six tips for dealing with COVID anxiety come from a recent piece on NPR. They may seem basic, but they are a good start. It's sort of a baseline here for this discussion. First off, you need to reframe how you think of anxiety. In other words, instead of approaching anxiety as a negative emotion that must be suppressed. We should think of it as a superpower that motivates us to act, and it's a different way of thinking about it. People like anxiety. Why would I ever think about it in those terms? We'll think about how you're shifting. The whole context of it, and then you need to calm yourself with breathing exercises, inhale and exhale every four seconds. I don't know if you see athletes do that from time to time when they're in the field or if they're on the golf course or wherever they are. And you see these people that close their eyes and take the deep breaths. And it's not something that's going to reinvent you, necessarily, but it helps to reset you a little bit and helps to calm you down. Because being calm is good. That doesn't mean no energy. Then you need to move your body. That's we're talking about exercise. People say, Oh gosh, exercise. I don't have time to do that because I've got these meetings stacked up that my boss now thinks that I have extra time to do. But we're just talking about 10 minutes of exercise a day. That's a valuable tool in fighting a stagnant lifestyle. So if you're somebody that doesn't work out and Eileen, I know you and I are people that work out like every day. So that's part of our lives. And I'm not saying, Hey, we're better than other people. I'm just saying we've made that a priority. I'm suggesting to people that aren't doing it right now that just take 10 minutes, just start with 10 minutes, find something that gets you moving. And then maybe you update to 30 minutes, maybe up to an hour. Maybe you don't, but at least you're doing something and then connect with others. We talked about this a second ago about the shared experience. Even if you're masked up or if you want to make sure everybody is vaccinated, that human connection beyond a virtual call or a meeting is so important you need to find a ritual that's important to you also and then maybe share it so you want to make sure that you're having that human connection. And we've talked about returning to office to a degree, and you're talking about dealing with clients, you know, on site and that sort of thing. I feel like I get energy from it. I want to be safe and we need to make sure that we have the proper protocols and safe but are safe. But I want to make sure that people understand how vital that is. So on the ritual that's important to you. It's something like a hobby. It's unrelated to what you do for a living. It's reading a book, it's doing crafts, it's playing a sport or it's an instrument or whatever it is. But it's something that you can do that doesn't relate to your day to day professional life that allows you joy and allows you to have value in your life. And it's just for you. You can obviously do things with your family. You know, Eileen, we're both very family oriented, so we like to spend time with our families, but there's also something that's just for you. So that's important and finally accept that this new normal, you know, the new normal, well, it's abnormal. There's really nothing normal about it. So signs are pointing in that direction. The sooner you come to terms with this, the sooner you may feel comfortably uncomfortable if you know what I mean, because everybody said when COVID started, oh, wait till we return to normal. And then as we've gone nine months a year, year and a half, everybody is realizing now, Oh, we're not going back to what we knew on the very beginning of 2020. Yeah, we're just not. Going to. And if you embrace that and you understand that you're going to leave a comfort zone of a sort and you've been forced out of their comfort zone because of COVID for a year and a half, that you're not going back. There's also opportunity for real development.
Eileen Rochford [00:12:27] Oh yeah. And that's an energy shift, too. When you think about it, think of all that mental effort that you put into resisting versus accepting, embracing, as you put it, right? That's a pretty cool thing, I think, for leaders again to model and I know lots of them have over the last 18 months, but people may have different expectations. Maybe they'll be coming back to physical offices, at least, maybe even just in a hybrid capacity for the next year. But if they're expecting that the places are going to look the same and that people are going to act the same and everything will be what it was that comfort that they had before, they're going to have a lot of trouble and they'll spend a lot of wasted energy and effort and resistance. So that energy shift, that mind shift is another thing leaders can really think hard about and intentionally about, and craft a plan for how they can model the behavior of acceptance. And I think that that would be really a powerful thing that they can do. You mentioned rituals. I'm curious before I talk about because you asked some approaches that I've adopted myself. Is there any new ritual that you've added this year, Rob, to kind of the mix that's helped you? I'm just curious if you know you've tried something new and different?
Rob Johnson [00:13:58] Well, I think I think I have; you know, I've had things I've done for years that were part of what I did. I read a lot. I like to read a lot and I and we're always on our phones, right? I can read everything I want to on my phone, and I'm really trying to be mindful now of reading a book, and we're going to get into it a little bit later. But you mentioned as we were doing research for this podcast, that you like the Atomic habits by James Clear. And so I said, Oh, I want to read that. And so, I went and got it, and there's other books people have recommended here or there. So, what I've tried to do is get physical books. I don't I don't want it on like Kindle, I don't want it on a computer and iPad this or that. I just want the old experience of like just reading a book, taking a book, putting it under my arm and going to a room and reading it. And I may have my phone in my pocket, but I'm not sitting there on my phone. And even though I'm listening, we do a lot of research on our computers and our phone and everything. But I just wanted to do something that would be interesting to me. And this and I said it shouldn't relate to work. Some of it may be a little bit related to work or about the things that I might employ that may help me. So, it's not all about sort of self-help. Atomic habits is terrific in that regard, but it may be just another book about, you know, networking. It might be a different thing. So that's what I've done recently to try to start a new ritual. That is, you know, kind of unrelated to the day-to-day, you know, face in my phone paired at work, returning emails, that sort of thing. How about you?
Eileen Rochford [00:15:42] There's well, there's been a lot of research that backs up what you're saying, meaning the reading of a physical book versus listening to an audiobook or looking at a Kindle version or whatever, you know, digital version you've got. Yeah, there's been a lot of research about that recently and the differences made in your brain and the positive calming effects of just reading words on an actual page. And it's so interesting that that's the case. But it seems it's actually true. And I have to say, reading nonfiction books, obviously, I'm an avid reader, and atomic habits and other books like that are part of my life consistently. But in the hour before bed, I read fiction and nothing else. And it can't be like terribly gripping the types of books that I can't put down. I save those for a weekend or vacation, but right before bed, I'm always reading fiction, and again, this is one of the, you know, two months, three months of consistently starting to feel better. This is one of the things that I have done to cope. So, you know, everybody is going to find other things that work for them. But you know, there's one, if our listeners want to pick up, pick up and try a few of these, I'm flagging that that's one of mine. I also mentioned at the top that I found a number of approaches that are working for me. So you, said we're both avid exercisers. Well, exercise is definitely one of the things that's been working for me. I was always an avid runner and I had stopped about two years ago. A little more than that. I'd stopped running entirely due to a pretty serious injury. But then, even as I recovered physically, the languishing that emerged during COVID in the pandemic that we've talked about before, it really took over my brain. And I don't know why, but I didn't have the energy or interest in running, and it was a huge struggle to get back on track consistently. Huge start. I stopped and started a number of times, but I guess I didn't get up, give up in the way that I didn't give up. Was I adopted the mentality of even if it's a mile, even if it's the skinniest mile I've ever run in my life, I'm going to do it and I'm going to do it at that same time of day that I normally would exercise and had when I was so consistent and much more fit right. And now that I have been regularly running regularly again, it's more than three months consistently, at least three days a week and doing like weight training and yoga, you know, a couple of times a week. Yeah, I totally feel like a new person and it didn't happen overnight. It was, you know, initially it was like maybe two days a week and, you know, one mile and it just you kind of build and build and build. But the thing is, I just had to stop beating myself up like thinking, “you suck because you're not doing it the way you used to.”
Rob Johnson [00:18:52] Can I make an observation? Because I know you well. When you are dealing with your foot issue and how you could not exercise. You talked about not being able to do it all the time. It really bothered you. It did. But I mean, it's just part of your personality, right? And not doing that, there's such a great value in doing it when you weren't doing it and we could all see why you weren't doing it because you had like a boot on or something. And it was like, Oh, you can't do that, but it really it really got to you. And then I noticed on Facebook that your post several times a week, hey, just finished whatever five-mile run and it's you sweaty after you did your run. And I think it's I think it's really reinforces for you the importance of doing it. And now that you're doing it again, when you say, Hey, I'm feeling much better, even if you didn't tell this story that you just told, I would know that is your friend because I can see when you didn't have it in your life, how it impacted you, and you talked about it because it was important to you. And now that you have it again and you can start running those longer distances and getting that really good workout in, you're like, OK, you just did this at six in the morning. And boy, it feels great that has value for you. So. So that's cool.
Eileen Rochford [00:20:02] I'm a firm believer, too. So this is again, you know, this show is going to be real tip-oriented. Anybody can be a runner, even if you hate it. It is free. It is the easiest thing. You can walk outside your own front doorstep and start to learn how to run without any equipment other than shoes. If anybody you know is really thinking, I just need something that I can start, try running. I didn't run, I couldn't run, never had my life. Like, until fifteen years ago, and since then I've run several marathons. You know, you just have to think. “I'm going to try something and this might just stick.” Although it's not easy physically at first, it's easy in terms of no barriers to get going. Just try it.
Rob Johnson [00:20:47] Of course. And, you said, Hey, go run a mile, and if you struggle, you ran the mile. You know, we were talking about do 10 minutes of inactivity, you know, just go do something!
Eileen Rochford [00:20:58] When I first started running, I couldn't run two blocks. I mean, let's be real here. This is totally total honesty here, listeners. So struggle is a good thing. I think learning to overcome things that are hard just makes you mentally stronger and really at its essence that is what we are talking about here. Mental strength, right? And business leaders bear a huge burden, as do employees every day. But when you're running a company and you're responsible for hundreds of people or thousands of people, you know, it really feels like a lot. So, you know, modeling again, I mean, to get back to that. I really think businesses and organizational leaders just need to model things like exercise as a way of life and enable all the folks who work in their organizations to access movement at work more. It's just a healthier way of living, and right now it's essential because we're all in a pretty tough place. So, you know, these are changes that we can make and communicate within our organizations as we try to improve and adjust and settle into this new world. Another piece? So this emotional puzzle is admitting that you're overwhelmed. You just, you know, you might be. It was really hard for me to admit that. And again, I'm a high productivity achievement, goal-focused individual to admit to myself that what I was feeling was actually overwhelmed and that because I constantly kept saying, Suck it up, Eileen. Come on, you got stuff to do. Come on. Yep. Now, finally, it was like, No, there's something wrong. To change, you got to change, right? That's and I wasn't changing, I was just going to have the problem the same old way. So admitting that you're overwhelms yourself, you don't have to say it outside to other people if you're not comfortable with that. But at least internally, letting yourself know that I feel that is a big step. So in a recent article, I read this on Every Girl I love, Every Girl. There are some terrific pointers that could help all of us, I think. And I want to share them here. But these these are intended to help us alleviate the stress and anxiety aspects of life, right? And I'll read through the list and then we can talk about anything that jumps out. The number one, this is the stop playing the I'm so busy game. Whenever, anyone asks you, how are things? How many times is the response busy, right? It's almost become like disease, or an emotion. It's a default.
Rob Johnson [00:23:44] And then and then all of a sudden, the more you repeat it, the more it becomes a thing and you're like, Oh gosh, I'm so busy. It's like, That's a default. I think it's a default, and I've done it before. Listen, I've been guilty of it. We've all been guilty of it. But you know what? Yeah, yeah, we're busy. Oh, I can't do this because I'm so busy. I just think its a lame default and it's OK. And I just think it gets in your way of being productive because if all of a sudden you keep repeating it five times a day, I am so busy. So then all of a sudden you're getting overwhelmed by not really getting anywhere when you're busy either, right?
Eileen Rochford [00:24:18] Yeah, yeah. Well, as a woman this has also been studied extensively women we tend to super overscheduled our lives. And, you know, as you kind of grow up, you know, get older and you enter all these different life stages, then all of a sudden you're responsible for scheduling not just yourself, potentially a spouse, potentially children, the parents who may be caring for or other older adults who are family members and close to you. There's are all things that you just take on and you keep constantly adding and scheduling and overtime to have an idle moment feels abnormal. Right? So that's been going on for years, but now it's a thousand times worse. So that's what I think Every Girl means by that “I'm so busy game”.
Rob Johnson [00:25:07] Right. I gotcha.
Eileen Rochford [00:25:09] Yeah. Number two, admit what you don't know. Stop trying to be the expert and the you know, I know that. Not literally. I know everything, but I can handle that right? So I think there's a lot wrapped in there, but admit what you don't know and seek assistance. Those are big things. People just need to get more comfortable with saying, I'm not going to be able to do that myself. I really need to go and get some outside supports, whatever it may be.
Rob Johnson [00:25:37] And if you don't know something and I see, I see sometimes executives fall into this trap or are leaders in any kind of leader dole like don't make up something because you want to look like, you know, something, even if you don't know if that's accurate. So it's OK to say, I don't know. And if you don't want the I don't know, you can say, let me, let me research it. Let me look into that. I'll get back to you on that or and then you bring in somebody else who maybe can help with that. So I think people need to get away from to your point saying, Oh, I can't show that I don't know something because then I look vulnerable. You just look like a human being and you don't say, I don't know. You can say, you know, I'm going to look into that and I'll get back to you later in the day. Let me let me research that a little bit and get you get an answer to you. That's admitting what you don't know. And it's not saying, I don't know.
Eileen Rochford [00:26:28] As a business owner, I know that, having either team members or clients or other vendors who we work with, if they try to kind of stonewall and act like they do know or act like I'm working on that and punt. All that does is delay progress. And that there is nothing more infuriating for me as a business owner. Really. So just think about. You're not helping. By not admitting what you don't know, what you have to do is say, let's find the resources to help us solve that problem. I don't think I have them all myself or something along those lines. I'm going to read a few more of these that to a trusted colleague. We all know that's a thing to do. We should take advantage fo that and be careful about it.
Rob Johnson [00:27:26] It also speaks to what you talked about earlier, which is, you know, being able to share things and that sort of thing. So venting to a trusted colleague means that you're talking about it with other people and you go, Hey, we have this shared experience.
Eileen Rochford [00:27:40] Oh, for sure. Similarly, getting feedback from someone you don't normally work with, and that could be somebody even outside of your own company. I've got my own little posse of professional women who I used to work with in different organizations over the years, and I go to them with things to get their take all the time. It's a very, very healthy thing to do and getting differing perspectives, particularly outside the organization, I think, it’s smart.
Rob Johnson [00:28:07] obviously people that you don't work with, people that you trust who have a different perspective, having that different perspective outside of your little, you know, three feet away from it, I can't see it is very useful.
Eileen Rochford [00:28:19] We've heard this a lot, but it's worth repeating right now. Stop saying yes to more. And this used to be something that women did a lot more than men. Now, I think everybody is doing it and recognizing what's additive to your life, what's additive to your profession, what really is meaningful versus what's just giving away little pieces of yourself over and over and over. Maybe there are organizations used to be really active in that don't really get you in a place that's any new or different from where you are now. It may be time to just change, or you know, just evaluate them.
Rob Johnson [00:29:00] I want to just quickly give an anecdote on that one as it relates to my charitable work that I do. I'm currently on four boards. That's a lot and I feel like I'm doing two and a half of them well. So I said yes to one because it was like, favor this or that, but I'm not really doing anything meaningful and I suspect of the next few months. I'm just going to say, you know what? I don't know that I'm adding anything very good to this organization. And so maybe I'll be down to three. Maybe I'll be down to two. But for me, saying yes to more, it's not just me, but all of us. It stretches you more thin. So if you're going to be stretched thinner, are you going to be known as the person that does a lot of work, but none of it? Well, or are you going to be known as the person that's more hyper focused? That is excellent at everything that you do, right?
Eileen Rochford [00:29:55] That's a great point. Next, there's the advice to figure out what's temporary and what's not. And from a leader's perspective, I think this is particularly important that you teach how to identify the temporary versus long term. And when you're communicating to make sure that you're positioning it, those things as either temporary or long term, it makes a huge difference.
Rob Johnson [00:30:18] And as the boss, give me one example.
Eileen Rochford [00:30:23] So temporary is for us right now, well we've had a lot of shifts because we've had folks on maternity or family leave and we've had people dealing with long term family illnesses. We've had some people just, you know, in a state of overwhelm that had to take little breaks. We've had to do a lot of shifting thus in terms of how work gets done and capacity right. So I've had to be really understanding and helpful and also making sure everyone gets that you're not going to be having to do this forever. It ends on this day. So we're asking a little more of you now, but things will go back down to a more typical structure and typical workflow in this short period of time, be it two weeks, three weeks, whatever, so that in reminding them of that, not just saying it at the onset, because, you know, once they get in into those new situations, it can feel pretty tough. But just having those supportive conversations that we're almost at the finish line, we're going to be back in a great place really soon. And what other resources can we think of to bring into this to make it easier, that kind of stuff? That's one example.
Rob Johnson [00:31:41] That's a good one.
Eileen Rochford [00:31:42] And then finally, the suggestion, the last suggestion from the Every Girl piece is, and we've talked about this a lot, but well worth reinforcing. Take real breaks and explain why. So particularly as a leader, right? Here's a great example last Sunday after having an awesome weekend, but it was super, super packed minute to minute, really exhausting. But, you know, crazy fun with family. I realized I was completely spent. That was not a restful weekend, right? It wasn't. It was great, but it was not restful, right? And I was not replenished in any way, and I'd had three consecutive weeks of really long, difficult days. So I was already a kind of a bad state of depletion. So I made the decision on Sunday, around five o'clock, I sent around a message to our team that just said, I'm taking a personal day tomorrow, and here's why. I think that's a lot of things on the calendar tomorrow that really require me to work. You all have got everything, you know, in really good order. But I'm I'm not in the best, you know, kind of physical and mental state. So I'm going to take a personal day so that I can come back and work with you. You know, really well, Tuesday through Friday. And I have to say we had this incredibly productive week just because I took that day.
Rob Johnson [00:33:14] Well, I'm glad you brought it up because I believe that that Monday we were supposed to, you know, text or email or, you know, do something. It probably related to this podcast. And we didn't talk, which is no big deal because we get caught up in our busy day to day lives. But then you told me, sorry, we didn't talk on Monday or today or earlier. I took a personal day and I was thinking, Well, you didn't have to tell me that you just could have said, Hey, you know, things got away from me or whatever. But you purposely said to me on that Monday, I took a personal day. And so when we're sitting here looking at this particular item, I was like, I hope she doesn't mind me bringing this up, and then you brought it up. So I'm glad that you brought it up because it was very it was very noticeable. And I think it was show great leadership and it showed great self-awareness. And it was like, Hey, no big deal. We'll get to it on Tuesday or whatever. I mean, no biggie, you know, sometimes you get caught up, we all get caught up. So anyway, I just wanted to commend you for that because even in our interpersonal dealings, you had said to me, and you didn't have to. I took a personal day today like, Okay, but I think that shows leadership and it shows certainly for somebody like me that works with you, but not, you know, for you at the Harbinger Group. I think it shows the people that were that you work for you. Hey, it's OK. The boss. The boss has a personal day. The boss is not immune to the day in, day out stresses of life. So I think that showed great leadership.
Eileen Rochford [00:34:42] Thank you. I would love to see so many more folks, you know, just do that. And you know, to me, I'll like, look at me, look at me. I wasn't. It was just take as I'm taking personally. Here's the deal.
Rob Johnson [00:34:51] No, exactly. I want to. I want to just share a little other little bit more analysis on some of the numbers that we see as it relates to mental health and the toll that all of this is taking on Americans mental health. This is from an ABC News report recently detailing from the Centers for Disease Control. The CDC. The anxiety depression numbers fluctuated with a spike or decrease in overall COVID cases. This is probably going to come as no surprise to you. However, we want to talk about it nevertheless, because it really backs it up, for instance, from August 20th to December 2020. There is a 13 percent increase nationwide in excitement related symptoms and a nearly 15 percent increase in depression related symptoms. Conversely, as the COVID vaccine was rolled out from December 2020 to June of 2021, anxiety related symptoms decreased by twenty seven percent and depression related symptoms fell by nearly twenty five percent. So this study included more than 1.5 million adults. It took into account 19 different waves of COVID 19 to assess the symptoms with questionnaires and surveys. And the takeaway here putting it in this nice box is. Researchers said this study emphasized the need to make mental health resources readily and easily accessible during the pandemic. So I don't want you to just take these numbers and say, Well, of course they went up because COVID got worse. Or of course they got better because we had the vaccine, and all of a sudden it was like, we're going to return to more normal activities, both personal and professional come the summertime. And so the numbers went down. The point is that mental health resources, mental health is an issue for the workforce in this day and age, and you need to do more than just ask, Hey, are you doing OK? You need to ask, Is there anything I can do? Is there any service that the company can provide you? And hopefully that a lot of companies do provide this where you can talk to somebody where you can have those services available, which will help you be a better worker because again, this is unprecedented. There was no How-To book you couldn't get, you know, COVID 19 for dummies. You can go get that book and read it because there was no book, there was no template. And the bosses that understand that mental health is a thing are going to have a far more mentally healthy workforce and a productive workforce, in my opinion.
Eileen Rochford [00:37:18] Absolutely. And furthermore. The leaders who share their own stories of struggle as much as they're comfortable, that's just going to help people understand that It's OK to look inside yourself. Seek the help that you need. Recognize the signs for what they are and turn the ship around when you can before you know things get really, really dark for you. You know, the more that leaders do that and that's, you know, suddenly, I guess maybe subconsciously, that's one of the reasons why I told my team I'd taken the personal day and I'm committing to continuing to do that, you know, whenever I either need it. But making sure that they understand, here's why I'm doing it and encouraging them to do the same because I just want people to feel OK about taking care of themselves. And mental health is intrinsic to physical health. Everything that happens in terms of brain chemistry associated with the toll of anxiety and depression in particular is evident. So it gets worse and worse and worse, the longer the more sustained you're in that state of being. And you can start to hurt your immunity system, it can get severely suppressed. Then you ou can get very serious diseases, all kinds of things. Right. So leaders, I want to see more of us taking care of ourselves, talking about how we are and encouraging the people who work with us and for us to do the same.
Rob Johnson [00:39:01] But it takes it takes the boss, it takes the boss saying, I'm taking a personal day. That's a small gesture, a small activity that happens. And certainly you go beyond that. But setting those things for everybody else to say, Hey, it happens to us all, as I mentioned earlier, is very powerful.
Eileen Rochford [00:39:18] Yeah, for sure. And I agree with that. Maybe there's another way to look at this, too. Yes, I would say most organizations have things like employee assistance programs. And, you know, often, you know, you kind of get referred to that by people when they notice things are getting tough. And that's great. But. We're all in this state of overwhelm and anxiousness to some degree now, really, we are the world is that way. So again, as we think about what's our new hybrid work structure and communication going to be, well, it doesn't matter what it's going to be. You leader should be acknowledging I'm not coming back to the same people I had before all this. That's such a good point, and I help them. It's not just the physical spaces where we're turning to. We're not returning to the same people. We've all been deeply affected by this. So how can we help our folks get the support they need to be able to handle this new normal? And that's more than just referring them to your employee assistance program.
Rob Johnson [00:40:33] That was my point. I was making earlier that that that's it's more than just that.
Eileen Rochford [00:40:36] Yeah. And so here's something that not that hard to do. I think if employers would consider just not, it's not such a big deal. If your people want to take their therapy session during their workday or, you know, at some point in the afternoon, like lunch hour somewhere in the afternoon, right, something like that was done or talking about because gosh, if they could, if they could do that and know that they're not going to be judged for doing their telehealth therapy session from a quiet space, private space inside of their company, or just if they're working virtually from home. That's giving grace, right? That's telling people, signaling Take care of yourself and we want you to and you need to. There's an example. And as we tie this back to the work again, we need to discuss an important state of feeling that has emerged during COVID, which I've mentioned on a show or two before, and I mentioned it a little earlier languishing. That's a serious thing. And, you know, there are lots of articles. Just try Googling languishing in New York Times, and you don't even finish the second word before it pops up. It's it's that article was so popular earlier this year. It's been talked about because it's a real thing. Adam's piece in the new Adam Grant's piece in The New York Times. It was a column and he described languishing as the state between flourishing and burnout. Now that's there's a that's a wide range, right? It is. But when you're flourishing, he said, you feel fulfilled, energetic and eager to take on challenges at work. Yeah, it's been a long time since I really felt that on a sustained basis, I'm starting to again now, I'm real happy to say. But when you're in it, he went on to say, When you're burned out, you feel exhausted, overwhelmed, drained, right? When you're languishing and you feel a lack of meaning and a desire to fit in emotionally. So how do you go from languishing to flourishing? That's a great question.
Rob Johnson [00:42:49] It's a great question.
Eileen Rochford [00:42:49] There was a piece that we found in the Harvard Business Review that had a couple of tips, so I'll just share them. I think they're good advice for folks. One is to set boundaries, and that's important really just in all kinds of ways. I mean, I've seen things creeping in more and more and more. The person I work physically most closest to is my spouse. And we used to have this ritual where we would walk every single morning for like 90 minutes, and that was like the largest chunk of time we'd spend alone together. And any given day and that has just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk because lots of his clients are on the East Coast, others are in Europe. So now those walks they're never uninterrupted. I shouldn't say never, but infrequently there are uninterrupted spans of time. So setting boundaries is what this is about partially. It's not enough to just, you know, turn off the notification. It's like Advocating for yourself by saying I'm not available before 8:30 a.m. Because it's going to be better for you. Diminishing your state of anxiousness. If that whole like attachment to the phone and constant checking and things like that, that's it's terrible for people. We all just need to recognize that.
Rob Johnson [00:44:19] I think I think good bosses do recognize that, but not every boss.
Eileen Rochford [00:44:24] And you know, what's funny is sometimes you have multiple bosses. particularly when you're like in agency client service environment. Sure. So you have to advocate for yourself in those situations. You just have to, you know, have frank conversations upfront with clients about like what's acceptable to them, what's acceptable for you/us. Find you're, you know, happy in the middle place and work from there. But it's about respecting boundaries and not just, you know, acting like, I have no choice in the matter. Of course you do. Of course you do. People, stand up to it and you have to have the conversation.
Rob Johnson [00:44:57] Well, and that's the point, Eileen, because you need to set those boundaries because when you're working with everybody, you need to do. It's, you know, the nine to five. We talked about this a couple of podcasts ago. You know, this whole idea of nine to five is really gone. And it's how do people work? You know, some people might say, Oh my gosh, I'm not available for two six because I'm picking my kids up from activities and getting them dinner, fed that sort of thing. And then, you know, maybe I'm good from seven to nine. Whatever the case is, it's so, so it's different. So setting those boundaries? If somebody asks or if you feel like you need to advocate for yourself and say, You know what? I'm not available before 8:30 because you know what? I know what has value in my life. For me, working out, releasing those endorphins, you know, really getting, you know, mentally and physically set for the entire day. And people will have different things of that nature, and that's why the setting the boundaries is so key.
Eileen Rochford [00:45:48] Absolutely. But no one's going to set them for you. You have to set them for yourself.
Rob Johnson [00:45:55] Yeah.
Eileen Rochford [00:45:55] Yeah, that's the that's the real truth here, people. I mean, yeah, I just see so many folks who kind of become victims of their own existence. That's just not going to fly. You're not going to get to healthy and happy without changing the terms.
Rob Johnson [00:46:09] You're going to get the overwhelming hangover. We should do a podcast on that. Oh, wait, we are. Wait. Yeah.
Eileen Rochford [00:46:13] Hmm. All right. Let's see. Then there's two more things here from HBR, which you know, everybody should do this at least twice a year, but right now in particular, reflect on your path. Like what is the path you're on right now? How do you define success for yourself? That's super important. And what's your mission? You know, it's like, what mission are you on for you in your career, in your family life, personal interests? All those things just take that time because it reminds you that you're a multi-dimensional being. And, you know, honestly, no one's going to give you an award for working yourself to death. Like, that's just the truth.
Rob Johnson [00:46:56] They handed those out long ago. Like, actually, they never handed those out and hopefully they ever handed them, you know, from a micro standpoint to Eileen, you know, you're talking about the sort of macro about like a take that time to really assess what you're going on. You know, you're path, so you have to believe that you're on the right path. And sometimes the path, you know, what's your definition of success and what is your mission? Sometimes it's small victories. Sometimes it's like you had a good week and you're like, You know what? We've had some rough weeks. We had a good week. I'm going to celebrate this. I'm going to know that I'm on the right path because of this. But also part of your path and maybe part of your mission doesn't always relate to success. You know, being on a path, it's sometimes just trial and error. Sometimes it's I tried this out. I believe it's the right thing to do, and I'm going to go and I'm going to go pursue it now if it ends up not being the right path and you will get off that path. But sometimes you have to also enjoy the journey, and I know that sounds like sort of I don't want it to sound trite, but. You know, success is how you define it, but also understanding that, you know what, I haven't made any mistakes. I've just had life experiences, I've had different things. So I think that's I think from a micro standpoint that's important to think of it in that way, too.
Eileen Rochford [00:48:11] You're a hundred percent right, particularly right now. People should be setting smaller goals, putting far less pressure on themselves and modeling that. This goal, this small goal is a victory. Yes. You know, behavior modeling that to, you know, folks around them, whether you're a CEO and your inner team, people or the whole department that you manage. Just think about that smaller accomplishments right now will build confidence and they'll build, build mental strength. And people will just be able to handle more, you know, little by little. My mission for myself, there was a period not long ago, a month or so ago where my little mission was, I was going to get some kind of meal on the table for my two older teenagers by 5:30 every day, whether they eat it or not. But I was going to do it because it was important to me that they knew that I'm there providing nourishment and providing, you know, emotional support, dedicating time where I have nothing else to do but put food in their mouth and they can, you know, either listen to my blabbering or just tune me out. But we're together doesn't matter, right? And I managed to do it like four days out of five on weekdays, and that was a huge victory, like in over three weeks that actually made this difference. We all started to kind of feel a little better. And there was a flow in the household, and I don't know, it was a good thing. That's just one example, you know, of a smaller mission to set for yourself. And to build on and get to the smaller successes, right? Yeah. There's one other perspective that I'd really like to offer here is we kind of wind down the show. I've always believed that. Taking measures to organize yourself helps you. You know, handle like whatever the world throws at you. And I don't mean to Marie Kondo your closet. That's totally not what I mean. I just mean using tools that help you get perspective on all the things that you know are in front of you that need to happen. And that list just seems to build and build and build. Sure, it does. Lately, you know, in the last 18 months in particular, also, we have so much less time for the doing because there's so much time spent on these stupid Zoom meetings where work isn't really getting done most of the time. Let's, you know, let's be honest, I am. I'm of the fewer, fewer meetings mentality myself.
Rob Johnson [00:51:09] I subscribe to that one, too.
Eileen Rochford [00:51:11] Totally. So this is about what I'm about to talk about. It's about learning to determine what is truly urgent and important. It's it's life changing, and it can help you get out of this loop of overwhelm. So let's talk about a tool that I've heard from it just so many circles over the years, and it's come up again because you're reading Atomic Habits, and I've been listening to the Audible audiobook version of atomic habits again. And that tools called the Eisenhower Box. So for those of us who were asleep in history, Dwight Eisenhower, who was an incredibly productive human being. Believe it or not, we know him because he was a Two-term U.S. president. He was a five star general. This guy definitely knew a thing or two about prioritizing and just getting things done. So he used this tool that I'm about to describe, and thus it is named for him. And but first, I want to I want to share one quote from him that I love. So take this one with you. What is important is seldom urgent in what is urgent is seldom important, right? Don't you love quotes that are just so simple but totally true?
Rob Johnson [00:52:25] I have to tell you, even if you were asleep in your history class or your civics class, you probably still knew a little bit about Dwight Eisenhower.
Rob Johnson [00:52:33] really is one of those legendary historical people, that's for sure.
Eileen Rochford [00:52:37] Yeah. Recently, we had a discussion in our house about “is Cincinnati a state?” So let's just not talk about falling asleep in school. OK, so the four components I'm going to go through with your real quick. So first component, Urgent and important. It's like a box. Think of a box on your piece of paper. OK, so the first quadrant is urgent and important, and that means tasks you must do right away. Not the kind of thing someone else on your team can handle. It's up to you. Yeah. Second category is important, but not urgent. So tasks that you schedule in the future to get done and that involve you and your time. Third is urgent, but not important. Typically, some of those tasks you can delegate to other folks, and when we when we say but not important. Maybe another way to look at that is it's not essential to your role on your team or your function, but it's something that really needs to get done and you need to find the person who's the better person to make it their urgent and important.
Rob Johnson [00:53:50] Right. So so the boxes is what's happening, you know, from a self-assessment standpoint. But it would be important to get it done and it'd be important to have somebody else do it who felt like it was important to get done. So I think that's important.
Eileen Rochford [00:54:03] it's important their function feelings are going to leave out of this because, you know, everybody brings a different bag of feelings to work. Number four, is this this quadrant is neither urgent nor important to you, and that means you're going to eliminate it. So if it's a distraction, whether it's hey, this might be a club you're in where you've got a meeting twice a month and it is not additive and it is totally coming off your list right now, it's really worth going through the exercise of identifying the things that are being pushed at you as this has to happen and using this lens. I use it regularly. It can help you see the forest for the trees. It totally does for me. I'm able to see where should I dedicate my time? When I ask these questions of myself every day, I ask them every week and the kind of longer-term perspective. And when I set planning for the month and for the quarter, this is the basic tool that I always whip out and it's my lens for it also.
Rob Johnson [00:55:09] And it also relates to what we talked about earlier, which saying yes to less.
Eileen Rochford [00:55:17] Absolutely. Yeah, they're just, you know, so many opportunities where you can find another person on the team who is better suited to do that task just as well and maybe more efficiently. Right. So that you can free up your time to do the really important things like just imagine if I was responding to every email or doing scheduling of meetings and I can go on name and thousand things. I would never be writing strategic plans for clients. I wouldn't be able to do new business development to keep our firm growing and thriving, right? That's just one example. But you can apply that to any position in any person, right?
Rob Johnson [00:55:55] Of course. Of course.
Eileen Rochford [00:55:56] Yeah. So I'll tell you where you can get more information about that real quick. So we've mentioned James Clear and Atomic Habits. He talks about it at length in his book, and there's a worksheet that you can get without even buying his book. And you just have to go to Jamesclear.com/Eisenhower-box. And you can have a template to download.
Rob Johnson [00:56:17] You can even see the book because I have my little filter on.
Eileen Rochford [00:56:20] It's the greatest book.
Eileen Rochford [00:56:22] I hope he knows I am one of his major fan girls.
Rob Johnson [00:56:25] Well, if he doesn't know, now he will know,
Eileen Rochford [00:56:28] Yeah, I am nothing to James Clear
Rob Johnson [00:56:32] No, that's good. Hey, listen, it's it. It really is a good book. And beyond the Eisenhower box, it really offers some great kind of personal growth moments. The sub title is tiny changes, remarkable results, and he really gives some great advice. So I would highly recommend it to. Since you're the one that said, Hey, you know what? You got to look at Atomic Habits.
Eileen Rochford [00:56:53] Oh yeah, I know a preview of one of our next episodes that will be coming up and not long over now. Yes, which will be Rob and I share our greatest tools and resources that we learned from in 2021. And of course, I will be talking at length about tAomic Habits. It's mine, Rob, you cant have it.
Rob Johnson [00:57:13] I can't say, can I do it inside here? They're going to say, Oh, you didn't like Chapter two?
Eileen Rochford [00:57:17] No, you can't even jump in Chapter two.
Rob Johnson [00:57:22] That is for a future episode of our year end review coming up in December. But for now, that's going to do it for another episode of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications.
Eileen Rochford [00:57:33] And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of The Harbinger Group, we thank you for joining us today, and we really hope that you'll join us next time as well. You can listen to us anywhere you get your podcasts, Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts and more.