Today's workplaces are a melting pot of generations, from Baby Boomers to Gen Z. Each generation brings unique communication styles, expectations, and work habits. But how do these differences impact productivity, collaboration, and overall morale? Join Can You Hear Me? Podcast co-hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford as they explore the communication challenges and opportunities presented by generational diversity. They welcome Millennial and Gen Z guests who will offer practical strategies for leaders to bridge the gap, foster understanding, and create a more inclusive and effective work environment.
Meet our guests:
Andrew Goldstein:
I am a storyteller that connects organizations to their stakeholders for mutual benefit. My combination of public relations experience, business education and media expertise allows me to craft effective multichannel communications for firms that create tangible, positive impact on people’s lives.
I learned how to produce content as a television sports anchor in both Savannah, Georgia and Rhinelander, Wisconsin, editing video and writing scripts for delivery on-air to hundreds of thousands of viewers. (Sometimes with minutes to spare!) Now I use the knowledge gained throughout my TV career as a marketing communications specialist at my alma mater, Marquette University, representing their business and nursing schools.
I originally hail from Cranbury, New Jersey, and will always love the state that gave me my attitude and love of pizza. When I’m not on the clock, I love reading nonfiction books, hiking on lightly trafficked trails and watching college basketball.
Caitlin Schoewe:
Caitlin Schoewe is a graduating senior from Marquette University's class of 2025 and is returning in the fall of 2025 to finish her last semester of graduate school thanks to being in one of Marquette’s many accelerated degree programs. Caitlin has been a student intern for the Marquette Mentors Program and the Office of Marketing and Communication during her time at the university.
Rob Johnson: [00:00:19] Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. [00:00:25][5.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:25] And I'm Eileen Rochford. I'm the CEO of the Harbinger Group Marketing and Strategy firm. So today, we're tackling a big one, generational differences in the workplace. So while Boomers, Gen Xers, and Millennials have been sharing office space quite a while now, Gen Z representation has been growing rapidly in the workforce and steadily since 2019, which is creating a new layer of communications complexity. So for clarity, everybody always asks the question, what's a boomer? So boomers, which I am not, are 61 to 78 years old. Gen X includes 45 to six year olds. Rob and I are Gen X, just for the record. Millennials are 29 to 44. And Gen Z are 13 to 28 years old, did I get that right, Rob? [00:01:12][46.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:13] Those are all correct years, and I'm glad that you set it up with that because people are confused. They're like, am I a boomer, like Gen X, millennial? The millennials to the Gen Z-ers, that's a tough one because I hear a lot of people, my brother-in-law is like, I'm kind of on the border a little bit. I think one of our guests here is, it's like, so where do you fit in? Everybody has to police they fit in. Well, each generation, for the most part, has preferred methods of communication without being too generalist. Boomers and GenX prefer face-to-face communication. Millennials prefer digital collaboration. And Gen Z is digitally native and values authenticity. So those are very different ways to communicate. And I think it helps for people to understand no matter where you are, what generation you are because they're going to be people that you work with for or who for you who are from different generations, and to understand those nuances I think is very important. [00:02:08][55.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:02:09] Mm hmm. I totally agree. Yeah. And that mean I agree with you. It is a little generalist. You know, the descriptions like I don't prefer in person per se. And I am squarely in the group that is supposed to prefer in person. I like it. But I'm really, really good at not doing in person and I launched a fully remote agency at the age of 31. [00:02:30][21.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:30] Can you be face-to-face virtually? Like, you know, when you're on a- Yeah, like this. Like you're talking. [00:02:35][4.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:02:33] Yeah, like this. When you're talking. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I like that too. Yeah what it's meaningful. Yeah but not when you're just staring at a screen because you're supposed to. It's a company policy. That's just dumb. Yeah anyway. [00:02:44][10.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:44] Yeah, no, that's for sure. [00:02:45][1.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:02:46] Okay, so guys, don't take our word for it. We have some awesome guests today. And they can offer their own authentic perspective. Andrew Goldstein is on that millennial Gen Z border and Caitlin Schoewe is a Gen Z-er. Now both of our guests today are affiliated with Marquette University. What? Marquettes? We never talk about Marquett on the show. And they are joining us now here on Can You Hear Me? After quite some time, I'm totally excited because we've been talking about this show topic and it's finally coming together. So let's start. Welcome to both of you guys. Welcome, Andrew. Welcome, Caitlin. [00:03:22][36.1]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:03:22] Great to have you. Yeah, great to be here. Thank you so much for having us. [00:03:25][2.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:03:26] Yeah, thank you. It's great to have you both, and thanks for giving us your time and your perspectives. I'm sure you're going to teach us a whole lot today, which I'm really looking forward to. So Andrew and Caitlin, but I'll ask you, Andrew, to go first. Could you give us just a little bit of background on your career and of where you are that's in your career now and what you're doing in your I believe right now you're at Marquette. [00:03:48][22.5]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:03:48] Yes. I am a marketing communication specialist at Marquette. So I work in essentially public relations. And before that, I was a television journalist, graduated Marquett degree in journalism, spent five years in the industry. And then much like a lot of former journalists, I made the switch over to the dark side, over to public relations. How dare you? And I know- Oh wait, I did it too. You wouldn't know anything about that. And for the last two plus years, I have been working in the Office of Marketing Communication, specifically representing the College of Business and the College in Nursing. So the way I like to think about it is if I were at a PR firm, business and nursing would be like my internal clients, essentially. And I have also been a part-time graduate student. I am in the MBA program, slated to graduate in a month if I pass business analytics. So maybe by the time this episode releases, we'll have an update on whether or not that was successful, but you know, knock on wood in the meantime. [00:04:51][62.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:04:52] You're going to pass. Come on. [00:04:54][1.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:04:56] You didn't go this far and not you know, you're not gonna it's not like you're I think [00:05:00][3.8]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:04:59] I think I'll be fine, but you know, don't want to count the chickens yet. [00:05:02][3.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:03] Darn right. Darn, right. Okay, thank you for that. So Caitlin, tell us a little bit about you and where are you right now in your life journey? [00:05:10][7.3]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:05:12] I'm an intern right now currently in the Office of Marketing and Communications, and I write the daily newsletter that goes out through email. So I write little news stories and news alerts for the Marquette today. And I also am graduating in May for my undergraduate degree, but I'm also an accelerated degree program student. So I will graduate next May fully with my master's degree as well in corporate communications. [00:05:38][25.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:39] Ooh, that's fantastic. All right, you are crushing it. Fabulous, there we go, we know who you guys are now and why you're here. [00:05:46][6.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:05:47] And representing two of the generations that we really need some insight on. So, Andrew, why don't you give us an idea of what your workplace looks like from a leadership structure and an age perspective? [00:05:57][10.0]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:05:57] Sure. So just to give a little bit of background, I'm sort of on that Gen Z millennial borderline. Caitlin, I think it's fair to say is fully Gen Z. Would that be accurate, Caitlin? [00:06:06][8.9]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:06:07] I'm square in the middle of the Gen Z years right now. [00:06:09][2.5]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:06:09] Yep, I would almost put myself more on Millennial just because I remember what dial-up internet is. That is my informal dividing line. [00:06:17][8.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:06:19] It was going what? [00:06:20][0.5]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:06:20] What? Yeah, there was a time where you couldn't be on the phone and the internet simultaneously. I remember when that innovation came to my household, that was just mind blowing. Yeah. But in terms of what my office looks like from a generational perspective, I kind of work with a couple of different offices. So an office of marketing communication, and Caitlin will be able to speak more to this, I would say it tends to be a little younger than the rest of the university from an employee perspective, lots of Gen Z, lots of millennial, some Gen X, I wouldn't say very much. Once you get into the colleges, I think you see a lot more Gen X and even baby boomer representation. And I think that is partially a function of the tenure system, of how long it takes to get to be a professor. If you are a dean or a tenured professor, it's very hard to do that as a young person, you know, below 35, let's say. So there are people like that at the adjunct level or maybe their tenure track just starting down that route. But I would say the leadership in nursing and business tends to hew a little bit older towards that Gen X and baby boomer sphere, whereas in marketing communication, it's probably more millennial than the rest of the university. Caitlin, what do you think? [00:07:42][81.5]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:07:42] I totally agree with that statement, besides the select handful of Gen Xers that we have in the office and maybe the one or two baby boomers in there. It's a pretty millennial Gen X heavy, especially because we have a lot of interns in our office. So it's a lot students coming in and out of the office all day. So it is a lot Gen Zers there and then everyone else that are professionals just like Andrew all kind of fit that box of like that cusp line between the millennial and the Gen Z-er. [00:08:10][27.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:08:11] No, that's good. [00:08:11][0.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:08:12] Okay, so let's talk about the differences between, you know, what we maybe like in employers and kind of the environments of the places where we work. So Caitlin, let's start with you. What are the top things you look for in how an employer and the organization that you work for communicate? [00:08:30][18.6]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:08:32] I'm a big believer in clarity. So I think one of my mentors told me that clarity is kind and I follow that. I brought that with me and it follows everywhere I go now. I love when an employer can send an email of a task or project that they want you to work on that hits like all the points of exactly like what they're looking for, what the main goal of this project is. I really like to have employers that can sit there and be clear and concise with me as I try to communicate as clearly and concisely as possible. But also having that time where a relationship can grow beyond just that professional relationship just a little bit. Not to where it crosses the line that it's inappropriate and you're bringing work and home totally mixed together, but just that little bit of background so you could really see that they're authentic and you are authentic and both people outside of the workplace. So I try to find places that I know where I have that balance of very seriousness, clear, concise, this is how to get the job done, but also have that little a playroom to be like, yes, we're both people and humans outside of this, and here's a little bit of our lives that help make it a more authentic connection between the two of us. [00:09:40][68.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:09:40] So you're comfortable with the personal thing spilling over a little bit, as long as it's not, say, inappropriate. So you are okay with, like, here's our professional thing, and we're on the same page, and that sort of thing. But we also like to get to know each other a little. That helps you work better with them? Is that what you would say? [00:09:56][15.5]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:09:56] I think so. I think it helps people work better in general, no matter the age group or who you are, because sometimes having that know of what's going on in a person's life can kind of help you figure out like, wow, like, man, Caitlin's really having an off week this week, but also I know that she had X, Y, and Z going on because we talked about that a couple of weeks ago. So it just kind of helps add that extra layer and that like little bit of emotional intelligence into your situation that I think really makes a team work and function really well. [00:10:24][28.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:10:25] Yeah, I agree with that. Very good insights. Okay. And how about you, Andrew? What do you look for? What do you like? [00:10:31][6.0]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:10:31] Yeah, I want to echo what Caitlin said about concision and clarity. Those are two important things. One thing that anyone who works with me will discover before too long is that I hate meetings. I really, truly hate them. I try to do everything I can whenever I am in any kind of position of authority to have as few of them as possible and to have them last as little time as possible. And I think this is, I think part of what goes with being millennial Gen Z and younger is as technology has come into the workplace and the expectations on what you will be able to produce grow greater and greater, everyone is expected to be more efficient in every area except pine, which is wild to me. I think the way that some of these things happen with, oh, have to have a two-hour meeting and unanimous consensus before we move on. That's a relic of something from decades ago. And I think I'm lucky to work with units in academia where that's kept to a relative minimum, but it still happens occasionally. And Rob, you can empathize with this. I come from journalism where literally in my first month or two, my news director said, pretend every morning when you come in that the building is on fire. Your job is to get out of as soon as possible. Go get a story set up, go get something where you are meeting with someone, we want you to spend as little time here as possible unless you have something to come back with and report. So that's literally the mentality I carry with me into this job. And I don't know that it's always the healthiest thing. Like this is kind of a personal tick that I think Marquette and I are good for each other because they provide some much needed air brakes on the way I work. And I would like to think I kind of move them along a little bit when I can. So that's just sort of a personal quirk. And also I think that is a generation agnostic thing. I know people who run really efficient meetings and I know who lag in all generations. I know, people who respond to emails promptly and ones who don't in all generation. So like you said, Rob, you have to generalize somewhat because otherwise, it would be practically impossible to treat everybody as a unique case and still have some kind of infrastructure that works at scale. But at some level, it really does depend. So I think concision, clarity, respect for time are the three tent poles that I go by. And whatever that looks like across generations, I'm flexible on the how as long as we get to the [00:13:10][159.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:13:11] You know what I love that you just said, and it's like, you know, the building's on fire, go out there, get a story, do that sort of thing. What you're talking about is deadlines and having deadline pressures multiple times a day in journalism. And I'm not here to sit here and go off on a, you now, a riff on journalism other than to say- [00:13:27][16.6]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:13:27] That's right after the podcast. [00:13:28][0.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:13:29] That's for afterwards. But truly, when you have those multiple deadlines, you do have meetings and you've got to get to the point and you got to solve and figure out what you're going to cover and then you got go out and do the work. The incessant meetings and the lengthy incessants meetings you're talking about are based on when people have lots of time and not much deadline pressure. I agree with you about that because it's like, let's get to the points and let's move on. So, a great, great observation. [00:13:56][27.0]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:13:56] Yeah, this is the thing that happens a lot in higher ed, and I'm grateful to work in a place where people sort of recognize it and try to push, but, you know, higher ed's just different than journalism. So there are different sort of cultural standards that you're working with and people across industries, as I'm sure you know Eileen, from representing a diverse mix of them, just communicate and work very differently in that way. [00:14:17][21.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:14:18] Yeah. Yeah. I love what we're hearing here, which is kind of this shared. Experience, shared preference, despite the fact that, you know, Rob and I are both Gen X and you guys are way down the other end of the spectrum. We hate meetings too. We do. And I am the biggest lover of clarity and conciseness and, you now, create a project brief before you do anything else so everybody knows what the heck to do is kind of my module. So that's great. I think that's We just established that it's not just about generational differences, but finding kind of common ground for how the thing in terms of communications and getting things done, what do you share and what can you find that shared space so that you as anyone in any work environment can work better together. So it's great. And we just, and we. [00:15:09][51.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:15:08] We just found the common ground because we all realized, hey, we're different generations and if you have to have a meeting, let's get to it. Let's solve a problem and let's leave with action items and let us move on. We don't need to let it linger. Andrew, in your day-to-day interactions, what issues emerge from a communication standpoint because you're dealing with people from different generations? It might be a negative and it might be positive, as we just found out. [00:15:30][21.4]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:15:30] I think the biggest thing and this goes both ways. This is from other people to me and me to other people is there is a little bit of a dark side of the moon to everyone's schedule where you don't know what else is on it. You don't necessarily know what responsibilities other people have, whether that be at work or at home in people's personal lives. So I think there is the tendency around busy periods or when something really needs to get done to be internally frustrated about, well, why didn't I get that email back when I needed it back? Or why is it taking so long to get this done? And then I'll discover, oh, there's a whole committee they had to go through that I knew nothing about, or, oh my God, they had a shoulder surgery. Now I feel like the biggest jerk in the world for sending that follow up email. So I think it is a little bit of trying to step out of that, go, go go mentality and realize everyone is dealing with things that you know nothing about. And I think across generations, those things are different. It could be grad classes for people who are a millennial or Gen Z who are starting out their career and getting a grad degree here. It could be accreditation and teaching stuff for, say, Gen Xers who are professors, where they're dealing with all the faculty business that you don't see as staff. So I think every generational cohort or every cohort of employees that has their own dark side of the moon scheduling stuff that you don't see. And I think the more you deal with it, the more I've tried to teach myself, okay, you got to have at least a little bit of grace, extend people the kind of grace that you would want them to extend you. And that doesn't mean that I don't still have bad days or I don't get frustrated. Like I think those are just human emotions that you have, regardless of how much you tell yourself not to. I think it's training yourself to, before you do anything, try and see it from the other person's perspective. And I think that is something that was valuable for me to learn at this stage of my career, because I'm sure both of you could speak to this. As managers, that's something that you probably have to do all the time. [00:17:40][130.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:17:40] Well, showing grace too, you never know what battles people are fighting. And that's what you were just talking about, Andrew, is you have to show it because you don't know. You're like, oh gosh, I was sent a follow-up email and I was pushing a little bit, and then realized they had something else going on. So you really, when you communicate, you do have to tread lightly sometimes. And then if you realize they just didn't do it because they didn't do it, then maybe you can be a little more pointed. But if they say, yeah, I was having shoulder surgery or I had something that was really distracting me, then you have show the grace. So Caitlin, what about you? What do you say about the issues that are emerging from a communication standpoint throughout the different generations that you may come across [00:18:15][34.4]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:18:15] I think piggybacking off Andrew a little bit, just through the generalization that we're making, us Gen Z'ers expect pretty close to instant feedback and instant communication pretty consistently because we are used to that. We grew up in the age of social media and grew up and the age texting. And I think I'm blessed that I'm on my third internship right now. So I've kind of had a little of time to grow in my younger years of college of understanding how the workspace works. But there are going to be days where you're waiting a couple days or a couple of weeks at some points for people to respond back to you and write those emails back to you or even when you send a quick Teams instant message, you're not going to get an instant response all the time and you're going to have to be okay with sitting and waiting and keep trying to critical think and problem solve on your own during that time, which I think is something that can be challenging to overcome when you are like, I just really want to get this right or I really want to get this done and like contribute and you have to like sit and wait and like learn to grow patience. But I think that's probably one of the biggest things I do notice is how instant us younger kids want to be responded to and how we have to understand that sometimes that instant response is going to take a little bit to come your way. [00:19:32][76.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:32] Yeah, I have a question. So when you don't get the instant response, but you know you have a deadline, what have you tried to do alternatively to kind of prompt the conversation or get things moved along in the way that you're able to? I'm curious about that. [00:19:47][14.9]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:19:47] Um, I guess it depends on like what I'm working on if I'm working on a story, for example, and I'm waiting on somebody to send me in quotes for the storyline or to approve the quotes that are written in there. I will always send like my first email and I'll say like, I'll give a deadline in between those days. And I always make the deadline a little shorter than I need it to be. So I have that wiggle room. And then on that deadline date, I send another follow up email being like, Hey, I really do have a deadline. I would love if you could get this back to me. And then I also will let my supervisor know, hey, these are forwarded to her. Hey, I emailed them. I reached out to them. I'm waiting on this response. I promise I'm not slacking off over here. I'll get them in May time. Planned and then just kind of show that like I'm off the boxes as best as I can um on the other hand if I'm not waiting on other people and it's a me thing and I'm stuck or confused on something I'll sit there and play around first before I ever ask questions and try to figure it out on my own and then again if I m in that spot where I need that instant communication from my supervisor I'll try and see if I could grab somebody as they're walking by me at the front desk who's like an Andrew in the office that maybe could answer my question and say hey out of curiosity, do you know how to do X, Y, and Z? Because I'm a little stuck and my supervisor's in a meeting or I haven't gotten a response yet. So I just want to see if I can work it out with you. And I see if it works out that way. [00:21:12][84.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:12] Those are good alternatives. Both of you, do you ever use the phone? [00:21:16][3.8]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:21:16] Oh, before I answer that, I just want to real quick thought off of what Caitlin just said. I feel like for both of what we brought up, people always, we feel like people always expect of us what we expect of other people. So when Caitlin says like, oh, Gen Z expects instant feedback, I feel people always expected Gen Z years to respond to the text right away because they're always on their phone. Whereas, you know, I think being in sort of a go, go, business of journalism and that mentality out, I always sort of thought, well, nobody is going to extend me any leeway, just because I'm on vacation or something, they expect an answer back from me. And I think in both cases, that's not necessarily true. Like if you just ask for a little grace, people will almost always give it to you. Though I think part of sort of pulling that back into balance is not just giving grace, but accepting it from others and giving it to yourself, because I feel like that's where that starts. [00:22:14][58.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:22:15] Yeah, great point. [00:22:16][0.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:22:17] Absolutely. [00:22:17][0.0]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:22:18] So what about your question is do you ever use the phone? I'm totally curious what like as a phone [00:22:23][5.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:22:23] That was a fun fun. [00:22:23][0.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:22:26] No, I'm kidding. [00:22:26][0.5]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:22:27] Um, yes, I will call my parents on it. [00:22:30][3.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:22:31] That's not what I'm asking you. [00:22:32][1.2]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:22:33] At home. [00:22:33][0.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:22:34] I think he just answered it. I think you just got your answer. [00:22:37][2.8]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:22:38] Like in work? Almost never. I will say one exception is if I have to have a sensitive conversation that you don't want a written record of and we're not in the same place. Because being in PR, like you're always thinking what could leak out, who's going to spill coffee on the reply button and send this to the wrong person. And I don't have very many of those conversations. People who work in issues management have a lot more than I do. But if there's something specific around an employment issue, anything that has sensitive data that I don't want in an email, then yes, I will use the phone for that. But 99% of the time, no. [00:23:16][37.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:16] This is so funny. I was just using this as an example with the folks, some people I work with, where I was saying, you know, it sounds so weird, but if you had just called me, I could have fixed that in 30 seconds, but it went on and on for a week because y'all were kicking this football unbeknownst to me and nobody kicks the football. So it was kind of stupid. [00:23:35][18.6]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:23:36] What about you? Do you ever use the phone at work as a phone? [00:23:40][4.3]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:23:41] I'm not in the office of marketing and communications, but when I was in the strategic communications firm internship, I would often use the phone just because we were all over the place or I'd be working from home sometimes here and there. Then I pick up the phone and call and be like, hey, and say whatever I have to say. But I think in OMC, we're so lucky that everyone is usually around, so all it takes is to just walk. Five feet and go ask a question or say like hey this is the problem and if they're not there like I'm a big texter I use the phone to text when there's something going on too but not often do I use my phone no. [00:24:20][39.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:24:21] So let me very briefly, Andrew. I want to explore something with you. You were talking about not doing it for sensitivity purposes and not wanting something to be on the record, which I totally understand. And that would be a reason that I wouldn't do it either. Are there ever instances where you would say, I'm not sure how this is going to translate in an email or a text, it'd be better delivered by phone? Is that ever through your thought process? [00:24:45][23.9]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:24:45] Sometimes, yeah, but Caitlin made a great point about everyone pretty much being in the office or on campus. So instead of calling someone, I would usually just walk over to their desk. I think if we were more hybrid or remote, I would be calling a lot more than I am because there are a decent number of instances like that. But when we're in close proximity, most of the time, I haven't found a real need for it. [00:25:12][26.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:25:12] Yeah, interesting. So that's, I guess, something just to kind of plant in the minds of our listeners that based on your structure, and if you have a dispersed workforce, in particular, just literally having a conversation. And so I don't mean it has to be found, like there's, you know, hangouts or whatever we use and maybe it's huddles in Google workspace where you just kind of start a live conversation, whether it's with video or without, through meet or chat, sorry. That kind of thing is really easy to do too, just literally like impromptu, hey, it's kind of like knocking on an office door without knocking on an office store and then having a conversation. So you can just put something to bed real quick. So that's interesting. I try, I find it very fascinating because we have a workforce that is a lot younger than me in our company and it is, it's kind of hard for them to see that. So I've been trying to demonstrate it, but hey, look, we just talked about that in five What'd you learn? And then they'll feedback, oh, I learned this, that's this. I'm like, I don't think if we had just done a chat, essentially, texting each other that either of us would have gotten the nuance of what we just exchanged in that five minute conversation. So it's just something to explore. I find it kind of interesting how it's done less and less by people of all ages, but it's still really valuable. So that's all. That's my two cents here. Let's move on to our next topic. How's that sound? Everybody in favor of that? Okay, so it's, you know, people tend to think about communication as a top down exercise in organizations. Meaning, you have the bosses or managers are solely responsible for communicating his or her message or their message. But Caitlin, in your role, what responsibility do you have in ensuring that your boss or the managers people you work with understand how you operate? [00:27:01][109.3]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:27:02] Um, I think a lot of how that worked for me, especially when I was first starting in the office was actually in the interview process with my supervisor. Currently, uh, she made it a point to ask, like, are you okay? You're comfortable with working from home or being in the office every day and how does that look for you? And we kind of decided from there, opened up that door of, okay, she wants to tell me she wants me to tell her what I need. And I was like, oops, sorry. I told her very straightforward again, like I know I keep saying it, but like clarity is kind is such a big message to me and I just I need that straightforward communication. I don't, especially when it comes to projects and tasks, I don t need everything step by step laid out for me. Like I need somebody to walk my hand and hold me through it, but I need overview and that brief of what needs to be done so I can make sure I can check the boxes based off of what you want and what you need from me. And then also just making sure that once a week we touch base with one another so I can tell you where I'm at on things and what I need from you that week and you could tell me what you need from me and where you're at with things with what I'm working on and what you're working on so we have that understanding of okay this is where each other's at every week so nothing gets lost or miscommunicated whether it's a big wrap-up email at the end of the week or a meeting really quickly that takes 10 minutes just ensuring that there's one time a week that's set aside to summarize what has been done and what still needs to be done. [00:28:31][89.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:28:31] Okay, I have a quick follow up. Yeah. So have you noticed or do you feel that it's helpful to have more communication, maybe in small amounts versus, you know, not hearing or being able to connect with the people you work with, particularly your manager for a full week and then you just kind of have to report on a Friday? What do you think is better for your style? [00:28:51][20.0]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:28:52] I think I'm a good little hybrid in the mix of the two because I've experienced both where it's like little check-ins throughout the week and then little like you report it out on Friday, what's up. And I think for myself, I can do well in either because I know if I'm working and I communicate like that communication style of like being able to go to your boss or your supervisor and having those conversations that inevitably throughout the weeks, there's going to be those little check ins if you're working with them. But if not, and it's like, you know, you have that set Friday, then you know you have that set Friday and you can report there. And if it becomes a big enough deal, you can always go back in the middle of the week and check in with them [00:29:32][40.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:29:32] Good, good perspective, thank you. Okay, Andrew, how about you? How do you ensure that the folks you work with have a basic or solid understanding of how you operate and what you need? [00:29:44][11.1]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:29:44] The way I've always viewed a manager's job in any industry at any level, and this is something in my limited oversight experience, admittedly, I've tried to put into practice is remove obstacles to the success of the people that you work for. And if we're viewing that relationship from the other side, from the subordinate side, I think it's the subordinates job to let the manager know what obstacles they're facing and bring them ideas about how to remove it. And I think that communication is oftentimes at the top of the list. If the cadence isn't working, as scary as it might seem, particularly if you're young and starting out in the workplace, or particularly if your an intern and god knows I've been there and been scared like that I was expendable or whatever and all that, I still think it's your job to go to your supervisor if something isn't work and say, hey, this isn't optimal for not just me, but for the task. I think that's really important to frame it that way as yes, it may or may not a personal thing, but more than that, you hired me to solve problems for you. There is a better way that I'm bringing you right now to get value out of me, to solve the problem that you brought me here to help solve. So I think that when it's framed that way, it's much more likely to get a positive response than just, Hey, I prefer personally this way. And obviously there is a certain level of accommodation that you have to have for someone that you report to. At the end of the day, it is their name on the back of your check. But at the same time, we're all rowing the boat in the same direction here. A good result benefits everyone. So there has to be some level of accommodation, I think the other way from the manager to the employee, when an employee is telling you, hey, I'm trying to help you get to where we all want to go. Here is a better way of communicating, a better meeting cadence, a list of things that I would like you to tell me that will help us accomplish what we're all setting out to accomplish. And I've been really lucky to work for great managers here who appreciate that and who solicit that feedback. I mean, most of the time, the few times I've had to say something, it hasn't even been me walking in and saying, hey, I have an idea or I'd like to talk about something. It has been them saying, is this working? Does once a week still work for you? I had a great example here in the business school where I am right now where I had once a month standing meetings with every single department chair about stuff that was going on in their units, stuff that I needed to communicate to them, all that. It was necessary for my job, but it was taking a lot of time that I could have spent actually fulfilling their requests. And the dean that I work for now, Andrew DeGier, awesome guy, said, hey, I have a once a month center director's meeting, can I just bring you to that? And we'll start off with promotional items and that way you could just get them all at once, still schedule any follow-up meetings that you feel like you need to, but would this save you a lot of time? And I'm like, yeah, hours, hours every month. Thank you so much. And again, it's not that they were wasting time. It's not I didn't value it. It's just I had never thought that that was a possibility until he bought it up. And that I think is what really good managers do. So that is my long-winded answer is, you know, frame it in terms of how best to remove obstacles and how best get to where we all want to go. [00:33:15][210.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:33:15] That you decided that you have responsibility to do it to do to to communicate back and also and very impressed that you gave a shout out to your boss on the podcast [00:33:23][8.1]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:33:23] Yeah, well done. [00:33:24][0.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:33:25] Very, very smart. [00:33:26][0.9]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:33:26] Andrew, if you're listening, note that in my performance with you. [00:33:29][3.1]
Rob Johnson: [00:33:30] That's right, that's right. Let's communicate. [00:33:31][1.4]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:33:32] Before we get next to meeting, we're clipping just this part of the podcast and sending it to him. [00:33:37][4.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:33:37] Before we leave, Andrew, I'll start with you, and then we'll talk to Caitlin about it. What observations, conclusions, or advice do you have for our listeners? We've really gotten into a lot of different subjects here, but as you end this conversation, what's the most important thing that you want to convey to our listeners who may be all sorts of ages? [00:33:55][17.9]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:33:56] Think at any age, you always have to be asking yourself, what kind of life do I want? And am I living and conducting myself in such a way that aligns with my vision? And if the answer is no, you can just change. There is no permission that you have to wait for. There is not milestone that you to hit. People always say, well, I would have liked to do this, but I'm X age and that doesn't seem possible right now. Or, oh, this is gonna take me so long or it's not a good time, there will never be a good time, they will never anyone giving you permission or saying you have to. If there's a thing on your mind, you can just do the thing, right? I think there are a lot more, I think there are lot fewer rules than people imagine there to be. And I think if you embrace that, if you feel like you can and should change often, and that there are no restrictions on your capacity to do so, then you end up with a lot more options than people who are just kind of going in the straight line that they set for themselves a long time ago. So just do things, have a bias towards action, and then reflect on it after you act. I think that you follow those three things, world's yours. All right. Caitlin, final thoughts. [00:35:11][75.2]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:35:11] I think across generations, specifically in that Gen Z bold open right now, people in my group and just that generalization to make it work. Work. People are afraid to try and afraid of failing and afraid of not understanding something instantly. And I think at the end of the day, even if you don't do something big, if you're genuine, I think as supervisors, the people that you're going to see that this is trying and so teachable, then somebody who is afraid to take the first few steps because they want perfection right away. [00:35:51][39.5]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:35:51] And to add onto that, Caitlin has really lived that in our office in particular. She is the first to volunteer for things, the first to try everything, even though she may not have done it before. Like that is really, really noticed by everyone in OMC that she works with. And it is one of the reasons why I wanted to recommend her to be on this podcast, because I knew that she be excited by the opportunity and take the challenge on. So when Caitlin says that, it's not just words. She really does love it. [00:36:24][32.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:36:24] That's great advice. Don't be afraid. Just try go for it. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I do see that a lot where I'm what do you think that is Caitlin and Andrew [00:36:33][9.6]
Caitlin Schoewe: [00:36:34] I think it's because we, again, growing up in the social media world, and this could totally be me talking out of thin air, but it's just from what I've observed watching around, everyone is so afraid of, well, if somebody gets this on picture and they posted on something or what if I'm in the background of like, so it's like somebody's video and I'm dancing with my friends having a good time, but I look silly to the rest of the world. Like everyone is just so afraid how they're going to be perceived and that ideal fake world of perfection is so shoved down our throats and has been since we were in elementary schools when people started getting social media. I was a little later on that train, but people started it at 10, 11 years old and are seeing this fake perception of life as like these perfect missteps. So they don't know how to handle authenticity and they don't know how handle like, yeah, everyone's a goofball around you. Nobody is perfect. You see highlight reels of people's lives and you see highlight reels of their lives on LinkedIn, and you don't see any of the failures or the setbacks, and I think you learn the best from those failures and setbacks. I know I've learned my greatest lessons through failures and setbacks and I just think kids in my age group are just afraid of how they will be perceived by the world if they have one problem or one issue and they try something and they're not successful and perfect at it the first time. [00:37:55][81.0]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:37:56] And to add on to that, I think people imagine the consequence of failure to be much, much greater than it actually is. Like I try this at work and it doesn't pan out. I'm going to get fired or, you know, I put this out there, some creative project I'm doing on my own and it'll be bad and people laugh at me and I'll never get to do anything again. You know what? It probably will be bad. Go do it anyways. That's how it becomes less bad the next time. You know, I've done social media posts that I thought were gonna be absolutely off the wall in terms of engagement. Turns out like 20 people liked it. I'm like, well, that was bad. We'll never do that again. And it's fine. You know? I still come into work the next day and say, what else can we try? So I think in most situations, the consequences of failure are pretty much nothing. Just try it. If it works, great. If it doesn't, move on to the next one with no loss of enthusiasm. [00:38:50][54.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:38:50] Great, that's great. What a wonderful note to end on, don't you think, Rob? [00:38:54][4.2]
Rob Johnson: [00:38:55] Oh yeah, absolutely. [00:38:55][0.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:38:56] Ah, I love it, you guys. Andrew Goldstein, Caitlin Schoewe of Marquette University. You make this Marquette alum just swell with pride. I am so happy to hear all the great advice that you shared today. And you're just wonderful examples of folks in the Gen Z, maybe Cosmo millennial for Andrew, categories and how, you know, you can try, you can succeed and you can do it with all different kinds of communication styles. So thanks for sharing your perspectives and for joining us today on the show. Thank you. Thank you for having us. [00:39:25][29.0]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:39:25] Thank you so much. We are you guys had a bowl. Yes marquette [00:39:30][4.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:39:30] Hang on, you just stepped on it. Try it again, Andrew. [00:39:32][2.1]
Andrew Goldstein: [00:39:34] Audio editor cut here. Three, two, one. We'll do the. OK, we are. [00:39:39][4.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:39:44] Okay. Thank you for that. Sorry, Rob. [00:39:46][1.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:39:46] Nope, all good. That's going to do it for another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson. If you'd like to weigh in on the podcast or give us an idea for a topic, please contact us at our Can You hear Me podcast page on LinkedIn. [00:39:57][10.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:39:57] I'm Eileen Rothschild. If you like what you heard today, please consider giving our show, Can You Hear Me, a positive review wherever you happen to get your podcasts like Apple, Spotify, etc. Because your reviews help other listeners find our show. Thanks so much for everybody. Thanks for listening. [00:39:57][0.0]
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