As Women's History Month is coming to an end, We want to explore a very important topic: Why a diversity of voices, specifically women's voices, are important when it comes to discourse in the public sector. We are very fortunate to have two women whose voices are being heard in the political arena as special guests. In this episode we are joined by Ann Williams, six term 11th District Illinois State Representative and Eileen Dordek, candidate for Illinois State Representative in the 13th District.
Guest Speakers:
Eileen Dordek is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker, specializing in treating anxiety and depression. For over a decade, Eileen served on the board of Personal PAC, which focuses on electing pro-choice state and local officials in Illinois, most recently as Chair of the Board. Eileen is a board member of Equality Illinois, an impactful LGBTQ+ rights organization. She is a fierce advocate for reproductive freedom, LGBTQ+ rights and women’s rights, previously serving on the Cook County Commission on Women’s Issues and then the City of Chicago Women’s Advisory Council. She is currently a candidate for Illinois State Representative for the 13th District.
Ann Williams is currently serving her 6th term as State Representative of the 11th District on Chicago’s North Side. The former chair of the Illinois Green Caucus, Ann is a leader on issues related to the environment and is working to address the climate crisis. Ann served as chief House sponsor of the Clean Energy Jobs Act, which was integral to the passage of the Climate and Equitable Jobs Act in September 2021. Her legislative priorities include supporting our neighborhood schools, protecting critical human services, preventing gun violence, and restoring fiscal stability to Illinois. She is a strong and unwavering advocate of reproductive rights and was a leader in bringing marriage equality to Illinois. She remains committed to ensuring equality for all Illinois families. Ann has sponsored and supported numerous legislative initiatives pertaining to privacy rights and data privacy. Ann currently chairs the Energy and Environment Committee. She also serves as Vice-Chair of the Judiciary-Civil Committee.
Bills mentioned:
Eileen Rochford [00:00:08] Hello again, everyone, and welcome to The Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm, The Harbinger Group.
Rob Johnson [00:00:16] I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. Here at Can You Hear Me?, we enjoyed discussing some of the most pressing and timely communications issues of the day, and today is no different.
Eileen Rochford [00:00:28] That's right, as Women's History Month is coming to an end. We want to explore a very important topic: Why a diversity of voices, specifically women's voices, are important when it comes to discourse in the public sector. We are very fortunate to have two women whose voices are being heard in the political arena today.
Six term 11th District Illinois State Representative, Ann Williams is here. She's a leader in the House on environmental issues and much, much more. Ann's legislative priorities include supporting our neighborhood schools, protecting critical human services, preventing gun violence, and restoring fiscal stability to Illinois. She's a strong and unwavering advocate of reproductive rights and was a leader in bringing marriage equality to Illinois. Welcome Ann, great to have you.
Ann Williams [00:01:20] Thanks so much for having me.
Eileen Rochford [00:01:22] Our second guest, Eileen Dordek, is a candidate for Illinois State Representative in the 13th District. Eileen is a mental health professional who has spent her career advocating on behalf of women, families in the LGBTQ community and is committed to improving access to mental health services and social services for all. Since 2009, she's been actively involved in Personal PAC Illinois, an organization committed to electing pro-choice officials. She's also a board member of Equality Illinois, an organization that fights for the rights of the LGBTQ community. Welcome, Eileen.
Eileen Dordek[00:01:59] Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here.
Rob Johnson [00:02:03] We appreciate both of you spending some time with us here on the podcast. Representative Williams, let's start with you. We have an Eileen R and an Eileen D today on our podcast, which is the first time that's happened. You are in your sixth term in the Illinois House. What changes have you seen during that time, about not only how your voice and influence have evolved, but how that has changed for women in public service in general? Because that's a lot of terms.
Eileen Dordek[00:02:31] It really is, although I don't count the Rauner years, so we can just laugh for you. It's interesting. So, I've been in and around the political arena since I was in my 20s, which was a while ago, and the way women's voices have been heard has really evolved in that period of time. So of course, in the 10 years in the GA, but even before that, it used to be that women kind of were the extra voices in the room. Everything was dominated by male voices.
You throw a woman or two here and there, but we had some real strong leaders that helped to make that look a lot different, even around the rail, which is what we call the lobbyists that hang out outside the chambers. It used to be that women's voices were limited to traditionally women's type of issues, so human services staff issues related to kids' families, which of course, is important, and that's where a lot of important changes were made. Now you see the women working and advocating in all sectors on the floor of the House, you see women pushing issues related to some of the more high-profile items, gaming even this last couple of terms, we've seen some women entering into the gaming space, which is traditionally kind of a male-based area. Utilities we're still working to get our voices as loud as they should be on the utility space.
We had a big step forward this year with the Climate and Equitable Jobs Act. So, I think the type of issues we're working on has widened in scope. And the more women's voices we hear, the more diversity we have among those women. I think we're going to hear a broader spectrum and that will help move us forward on all issues.
Rob Johnson [00:04:26] Because what we're talking about here is not only having a place at the table, but having your voice heard and having your recommendations and what you suggest actually thoughtfully considered and perhaps enacted or, put on a bill for people to vote up or down on, right?
Eileen Dordek[00:04:45] Absolutely. I still think we have work to do to make sure that women are running the table in a lot of these spaces. I know that's probably the case in the private sector as well, but we have a way to go to make that happen here. But we are louder and more visible than ever before.
Eileen Rochford [00:05:02] I’m curious Ann, noting all of that change in the kind of we'll say a representation of women. In the political arena in Illinois, in the different roles, what's been the result of that? Like what observations might you have about, oh, that's made the way we're talking to each other or how we come to agreements? What's changed?
Eileen Dordek[00:05:30] I think women tend to be more collaborative in general. I don't want to say none of the men I work with aren't because they certainly are, but we are very comfortable in a space of collaboration. We don't always need to see our voices at the top of the conversation or have our names at the fore at the front of the page.
I think women are comfortable sitting back and working with other women and letting the issues lead rather than the personalities lead. So that's something I've seen some of my female counterparts really excel at pushing an issue, not needing to take the spotlight and really just doing the work to get it done.
Eileen Rochford [00:06:11] Those are great observations, thank you, and very encouraging to hear. Of course. Let's ask Eileen a question. How's that sound? You have a Master of Social Work and you've made a difference in the lives of so many people in the Northside community where I also live and women's rights are one of the key tenets of your platform. And thank you for that. Of course, I super appreciate all that you're doing.
What I really want to hear about is recognizing your passion about the need to elevate female voices in government and social institutions, it's clear. Tell us why that's so important to you. And if you're elected, what do you hope to do to make sure that women are well represented? In politics and just in all the spaces where we need to hear their voices more.
Eileen Dordek[00:07:09] Thank you for asking, kind of building off what Ann said, what I've seen as a citizen, not involved in elected office myself. I am running now; I've always paid a lot of attention to what goes on at the government level. And what I see is that they're very often issues that if you do not have some aspect of engagement in that issue or perspective, you don't know it's an issue. So, a couple of bills that are some of my favorite ones in the city, one in the state are really good examples of this. Unless you've had this experience, you might not even know it was an issue.
One is the hands-off pants-on ordinance that was passed a few years ago in Chicago, and that was to give hotel workers panic buttons because it's such a private thing that happens. Hotel workers go into rooms. Unfortunately, for decades, forever have been harassed by people in hotels. It's something that's really quiet, and until it came up as an issue and very often the women who are cleaning the rooms are and they're usually women, and they're often people who might be immigrants, or they might be women who come from communities that have been underserved. So, they're very vulnerable and may be at risk of concerned about losing their job if they complain, but they were being sexually harassed. By having the hands-off pants on.
Also, one of the greatest names of the ordinance ever. It brought attention to this issue of sexual harassment, and it gave a remedy, which is now they all carry panic buttons, so they don't have to go to somebody who has more authority, go to somebody who's their boss to complain about somebody who clearly has a lot more power than them. They can just press that panic button and get help. So, to me, that's a perfect example of, you have to be somebody maybe who's had sexual harassment to understand or even think through that law.
Another one that I think is really amazing was the no-job salary history bill that was passed a few years ago. And what was so important about that is we know that women are paid less than men and actually Equal Pay Day is coming up on March 15th. It's when white women have to work until March 15th to get paid as much as men and actually Asian-American women have to work till May 3rd. Black women have to work till September 21st. And LatinX women have to work till December 8th to have equal pay to what a white man got last year. The no salary history bill enabled people who were probably paid less because of their gender, because of their race. They were not having to say what your salary history was, you can get paid for the job that you're being hired to do. So those are the kind of things that I think it's really essential, like if you are a privileged, powerful person, which is often white men in our society, that's just a fact. You don't see all of those elements in that no salary history bill is something that really helped a wide swath of people who haven't had privilege in our society for a long time, and this is a way to kind of even things out.
Those are the things why I think it's so important to have women. There are people with lots of different life experiences, nothing personal, and there are a lot of lawyers in the General Assembly, and they're good reasons for that. But it's also good to have people with different kinds of work backgrounds and having women, you get more teachers. There was just a senator recently elected who was in education. I'm a social worker. So I want to go and work on mental health care rights issues. I'm also actually really excited about affordable housing, which is another area that's not necessarily a women's issue, It's everybody's issue,
Rob Johnson [00:11:13] I'm fascinated to hear about people talking about running for office or people who are in office, so that applies to both of you and you've made some great points here, I want to ask you, Eileen, you've obviously given us a good idea of some of the things you're passionate about, but how do you go from, I'm really passionate about that to I think I want to run for state elected office and really make a difference. How does that happen?
Eileen Dordek[00:11:44] I have been very fortunate to be friends with Ann Williams, who has been a legislator for many years, and I watched the impact she's made in our state by being the sponsor of the Climate and Energy Jobs Act and other bills that she's passed, along with a lot of other people who've really made an impact at the state level. Actually in the last three years with this current governor, there has been a lot of progress made in a lot of different areas as far as our economy, the way the government functions has been really functional and they've gotten a lot of good stuff done. So I've seen that I've been participating in that through my work with Personal PAC, which is a pro-choice political action committee and I've worked on supporting a lot of other candidates.
I also have been very involved in 47th Ward Democrats where I knock on doors. I'm a precinct captain and I educate my neighbors because I think that the best democracy is one where everybody participates, where everybody is knowledgeable, where they're informed, where they can express their opinion, where they have accountability and accessibility. That's another thing. And actually, all the elected officials in this area have really been great about making themselves accessible. Being, if you need to talk to your state legislature or your senator, it is really easy to access them. So I decided when my current state Rep. Greg Harris, decided not to run for reelection. He has been a champion for LGBTQ rights. He was the lead sponsor for marriage equality, reproductive freedom, social services, mental health care, Medicaid coverage. So, I thought those are things that I really care passionately about. I'm going to step up to run.
Rob Johnson [00:13:35] That's all fantastic. So, the elected official on this program is the one that motivated you to do that. That's terrific. Representative Williams, let's get back to you. You just talked a couple of minutes ago about how the influence of women has increased in the State House during your years. How do you think that additional influence has positively impacted policy here in Illinois? There are not so many men making decisions. There are women that are voting, there are women that are leading the way. Even as you said, they don't maybe have their names at the top of every bill. But how has that impact made Illinois a better place because there are more women that are weighing in on some of these very important issues?
Ann Williams [00:14:19] Well, thanks for that question, I think Eileen hit the nail on the head when she mentioned the sorts of issues that we have considered in recent years being attributable to people's personal experiences as women. A space that Eileen has been and still continues to be very active in is reproductive health care, of course, through her work at Personal PAC. At the time, we worked on a couple of bills pertaining to health care and reproductive health care specifically. We didn't realize quite how bad I think it was going to be nationwide. We passed Senate Bill House Bill 40, which provided eliminated the Hyde amendment and provided that women of all income levels could access abortion. And then recently, the Reproductive Health Act, which really brought Illinois law up to speed in terms of access to reproductive health care. Removing a lot of the antiquated items that were on the books subject to repeal of Roe versus Wade was not to be on the books. So that bill, I am confident, would not have passed without the hard work of the women in the Legislature and of course, the women advocates outside that space, including Eileen.
It's an issue that is so visceral and important to women, especially not that we didn't have a lot of amazing male allies working with us. But the idea that we were looking at state after state putting incredibly restrictive and disturbing restrictions on the ability to access safe and legal abortions was a real motivator for me personally, and I worked really hard even throughout everything else that was going on a legislative session to make that happen, and I've been very honored to take a lot of really significant votes.
At the top of the list, of course, is the vote for marriage equality, which felt special. When I pushed that button, it felt like I really made a difference in people's lives. And the next day we're like, it seems so obvious, why has this always been the case? But the other bill that I felt most impactful when I pushed that button was the Reproductive Health Act. Now, as we see The Handmaid's Tale-esque laws being proposed throughout the country, I really have to admire the foresight of Eileen and the other advocates that push that bill, because, in Missouri, there's a bill pending right now that would allow you to civilly sue someone who assisted a woman crossing state lines to get abortions.
There's another bill I thought I saw. It almost seemed like the very sick sad version of The Onion, but a bill providing for the death penalty for women who sought abortions. It's getting absolutely nuts. And thank God, thanks to women like Eileen, thanks to my colleagues in the GA, we were able to make sure that Illinois is a safe space for women to come. We welcome them here. We will do anything we can to help them come here to access this most basic service.
Eileen Dordek[00:17:23] I was just going to just add one more thing to what Ann was saying we're talking today about women, but I think it's also really important to talk about other intersections. And for example, in the floor speeches around the Reproductive Health Act, what was extremely powerful was the coalition of the Latino Caucus, the Black Caucus, all the Asian-American representatives who were all fighting for this issue that affects all people who can get pregnant.
What was so powerful, I remember speeches from Representative Maurice West, who's a pastor, an African-American pastor who spoke about just the importance of making choices about your body. And Senator Troy Hutchinson at the time talking about bodily autonomy and really highlighting those intersections that were fighting for people's rights. It's getting complicated a little now, how the government treats bodies and that intersection of all those people's experiences as part of what passed it over the line.
Eileen Rochford [00:18:33] That's a great observation, since we talk about communication here, I think that's a really cool insight that you just raised Eileen. I just wanted to pause and just take the opportunity for both of you to give some guidance on what women and people who are interested in making sure that reproductive rights are protected here in Illinois and beyond, but really we're in control of what happens here, what should we all be doing?
Because I remember, Eileen we were at an event together that we kind of put together years ago where we were talking about this very issue and the day coming when the threat would be so real to repeal of the right to have an abortion. And I don't want us to leave this conversation without asking you to talk about what we all are doing now and not taking what we have here in Illinois for granted and what should we do?
Eileen Dordek[00:19:42] One of the things that I am concerned about is part of the reason why I'm running for office is I'm worried about complacency because there is this idea that we're OK in Illinois. I'm making air quotes. We're okay in Illinois. Like because we've passed bills to create more access over the past several years at times when these other states are pulling back access. That said, there are going to be resources available to come after us in Illinois from the anti's when Roe v. Wade is overturned or as a lot of these laws continue to be able to stand, regardless of whether Roe v. Wade is overturned because the Supreme Court is allowing the Texas ban to stand.
So what that means is there will be more resources. They're not going to have to fight as hard in 26 states across the country to make abortion illegal because it will be illegal. So they are going to be able to bring their resources here. I feel like it's really important to keep it in people's minds and to keep moving the ball forward so we can't stop. We need to then take the next step. So maybe the next step would be about having access to the abortion pill at pharmacies, which is a law in California and in other states. But it's not here. So there are ways that we can keep increasing access and keep this issue moving forward because my fear is once we stop going forward, if you're standing still, you start playing defense and you've already gotten behind. So that's my opinion. There are things at the edges that we can continue to do to make this easier, make it more accessible for reproductive health care for all people in Illinois.
Ann Williams [00:21:23] And I would just add that we need to ensure that we don't just elect Democrats. We just don't elect pro-choice Democrats. But we elect unwavering, 100-percent, unequivocal. Take it as far as you need to go and make sure that abortion stays safe and legal in Illinois. Eileen has worked on, along with me, enough reproductive health care bills to know we're always fighting to get those last four or five votes. We don't want to make every vote a fight, and with the possible Republican wave coming this way, we want to make sure that the people we elect are 100 percent committed.
Organizations like Personal PAC and Parenthood ACLU have got a long way to make sure we make it a good thing. We want a potential Legislature, candidates to understand that being pro-choice, being really pro-choice, 100 percent pro-choice because it's kind of a black and white issue is critical for you to be successful. And, I think the work that they've done all these years has really paid off. But it's something we have to keep fighting for, and that means money, resources, energy, walking, precincts, making phone calls, all of the above.
Rob Johnson [00:22:30] I just want to say quickly that as someone in his previous life covered politics very closely. To see men always weighing in on this issue as their issue. I am far more comfortable now and I'm not making a political statement. I'm making a statement about how women are making an impact on this issue because I always said, Well, where are the women? Why aren't the women making decisions? Why aren't they part of the discussion? These are earlier days and now you are part of the discussion, as you should be. It's so vital that it needs to happen. So I just wanted to say I'm comfortable that leaders like you all are weighing in on something that you're passionate about that's so important not only to women but to this entire country.
Eileen Dordek[00:23:18] It's funny, just one little thought, I have a clipping a newspaper clipping from years ago, this was one of the George Bush's was president and he was signing some anti-choice measure or something into law, and it was a picture of him gleefully signing. Now he seems great, by the way, but relatively to the last guy. But he was signing something and around him were all a bunch of white men kind of nodding in approval, and that picture just really stuck with me. It is nice that we've evolved away from that, but we always have to stay vigilant, as I mentioned. I want to find that clipping, I don't know where it is, but it's a good reminder.
Eileen Rochford [00:23:53] Yeah, there are a lot of pictures like that on various pieces of legislation. Makes my blood boil. Well, thank you. Those are really good pieces of guidance. Food for thought. Eileen, you're your point about complacency. Yeah, that's the thing that scares me the most, too about everything, honestly. Not just this issue, which is a very important one, but many others. We tend as human beings to really look out for ourselves and kind of feel like, okay, we're okay.
So I don't need to be worried about that, but I always tell myself there is no comfort in comfort. There just isn't. When you're comfortable, you stop growing, et cetera, et cetera. So thanks for bringing that up. That's a really important point too. Rob, I think it's a good time for us to transition to talking about the environment because I really want to hear Ann tell us about the major piece of legislation that passed in September.
Rob Johnson [00:24:59] Absolutely. We've been talking about a lot of key issues here, and I knew we were going to get to the environment. But Representative Williams, knowing that this major piece of legislation is right before us now as someone who is passionate about the environment, how as a woman and as a legislator, has your voice impacted this issue in the House of Representatives, especially for something as groundbreaking as this?
Ann Williams [00:25:30] Well, thank you for bringing up one of my favorite topics to talk about for the past several years. It's so funny, I was so tired of talking about the bill, but when it finally passed, all we did was talk about the bill. So it's still so exciting to think about. That is an issue that so many of us have worked on for many, many years prior to passage. It was first introduced, I think, in 2019. But prior to that, the environmental advocates had been having conversations throughout the state to really get a sense of what different communities wanted in terms of their clean energy future.
So rather than a utility deal being cut in the back rooms of conference rooms, which did actually happen, this was actually taking it out to the communities. And one thing that we heard consistently was jobs, equitable jobs. The other piece we heard was climate, climate, climate crisis. Climate change is on everyone's mind, and it's an issue that we can't move forward on energy. We can't move forward on utilities without talking about it. So we worked thanks to amazing work by the advocacy organizations. We had such a great coalition, very many of them women-led, very many of them led by people of color, faith-based organizations, business organizations, solar companies, wind companies. We had our Illinois Environmental Council, which is kind of a grassroots organization that encompasses many other groups like the Sierra Club, things you've heard of many times. And the result was, I would say, in this case, the environmental voices were just as relevant at the table as the business interests and the utility interests, and that was not how it had ever been before.
Part of it was the change in leadership that we saw in the Illinois House that made a big difference in the focus. We had a negotiating team in which several women, including myself, were participants. The thing that the women really pushed for was to ensure that the end product was a climate bill, first and foremost, not just a utility bill. And that seems so obvious, right? I mean, but when you're in Springfield in a conference room and you have a lot of different voices, some of which represent interests relating to coal, some of which are organized labor, also a very important voice. You have to consider the big picture. And so we have to really, really push to make sure we ended up with a climate bill. I have to give credit to our governor, J.B. Pritzker insisted and brought the power of his office behind that goal to make the final product a climate bill. And we got it there.
Eileen Rochford [00:28:17] It's pretty exciting, as a resident of the state, to see that piece of legislation get enacted. I have to say I just personally, it's a really important issue for me and for my family too. So I mean, I was really grateful that the Legislature made it happen, even though at times it felt like it wasn't going to happen based on the reporting. We got an electric car, you know, in 2019. It's funny to think about how back then that felt like still kind of on the edge in some way, which is so silly.
Now, when you look at gas prices where they are right now, doesn't it feel like It's a really good thing that Illinois. Put those incentives in place and things are and all these different levels, the solar wind, because we've always known we need to shift that dependency. But right now, in particular, because of just gas alone. And it's a fascinating topic for me. What's been flying through your mind seeing these soaring gas prices?
Ann Williams [00:29:29] Well, I think that's something that has to kind of be a thread through every conversation, the inflationary piece. Small business recovery where we are economically. And while we don't set broad-scale economic policy at the state level, we certainly can impact that. But on the environmental front, I just want to make an observation that kind of ties into what you're saying.
When I first ran in 2010 I was first elected in 2011. I heard a lot about environmental issues. Clean air, clean water pollution led to other issues that people were talking about in the community. But I never heard the term environmental justice. We weren't talking much about the climate crisis then. Not like we are now. So it's been really fascinating to see the conversation and the issue evolve. EVs were quite edgy in 2019, but now if you look, there are more cars on the road, every manufacturer is going in that direction. We're looking at developing the infrastructure needed to support a big increase in EVs. So it's amazing. And with Eileen coming now and on the campaign trail now, she's probably hearing about environmental issues in a whole different way.
I think our big initiatives this year are in the environmental justice space, ensuring that communities that are traditionally underserved and impacted more by pollution are before an entity that might be polluting is located in their community, able to look at the big picture. How much have they been impacted in the past, what does their future looks like? And that's a conversation we never used to have even a few years ago, so it's a rapidly evolving space. Sure, Eileen has noticed that.
Eileen Dordek[00:31:06] Yeah, absolutely. Ann isn't there a bill for that very purpose? Did that pass yet or is it in discussion?
Ann Williams [00:31:13] Pending. And again, environmental justice is not a term that was used when I first ran. So it's exciting and important to see. Yeah, and I think what you're talking about with the gas prices, Eileen, is that we know that that's a regressive tax. It does affect people who are under-resourced more than it affects rich people because rich people can just go and pay. And likewise, with the evolving to like electric vehicles, it's going to be really important to make sure there's some equity in that. And I know the Climate Energy Jobs Act. It had elements of that where everybody can have access to these ways of having cleaner energy and having more renewable and cheaper energy.
Rob Johnson [00:32:02] I want to jump in as a small business owner because I was stunned when I learned that if I bought a gas guzzler over 6000 pounds, I would get a tremendous tax break. And I remember asking the dealer, and I know that there are already incentives for electric vehicle owners as well. But I thought if we're really heading down this path and this is before gas prices got ridiculous, you could just see this is the wave of the future.
Eileen R and I were just at the auto show a month ago with one of our clients and you see EVs everywhere. EVs and cars are in high demand anyway. But EVs need to be available, and there need to be obvious incentives to give people to say, you really need to consider that. I think the technology probably needs to improve as well because as somebody who travels a lot to watch my son play hockey, to let's say Michigan, there's not a lot of opportunities. If I drove my electric car to Michigan, I'm sure I could find a place to charge. But there's just not a lot of infrastructure, to your point, Representative Williams. So it needs to be all these things. I'm fascinated by it. Eileen R, who is a pioneer having got an EV in 2019.
There's a lot of people, I think that want to do this, that see it, and now they're really seeing it because of the outrageous gas prices and the inability to sort of blunt them. That's only part of the piece, but also the environmental, looking down the road a little bit environmentally and you see, that's the wave of the future. So I think there are a lot of people who would love to jump in on that, but for various reasons can't go all in. Like me, I would love to go all out.
Eileen Rochford [00:33:45] You both raised good points, the concept of environmental justice and then access and equity. Eileen, that's also fascinating to me because I've always looked at the prices of electric cars and so many of them, they're expensive, they're not like, you can just get them like you can, I could get, twenty-five, twenty-seven thousand dollars tiny car to suit your needs. So that's a bummer to some lots of things that need to be addressed there. But Illinois is part of a coalition. And five states in the Midwest working to improve the infrastructure to access charging. Is that true?
Ann Williams [00:34:28] I'm not exactly sure what coalition you're referring to, but I know that the infrastructure the government or did a lot of work in, even as a follow up to the Climate and Equitable Jobs Act to do some work on the development of infrastructure and the affordability for electric vehicles. So that is probably what you're referring to or maybe what you're referring to. Yeah, it's something that the companies are starting to see opportunities we're looking at as a state to provide support for that.
My lease is almost up, I don't have the ability, though, to charge because I live in a condo and don't have the infrastructure. But we're considering a bill right now in Springfield that would provide for new construction to produce the electric current and that and the apparatus so that you could install such a charging station. I think that's really exciting because a lot of people don't have the ability to do it in their own homes now, and that's a way of making it more equitable and accessible to all.
Eileen Rochford [00:35:25] And in the city of Chicago, they already have that for multi-unit new construction of a certain size. The new code is that you have to provide the wiring capability to have X number of chargers on site. So in the city of Chicago, that's kind of coming down the line, which is encouraging as well. People should know about that.
Eileen Dordek[00:35:49] And I jump in for a second. I think as we're talking about all these issues, what's so interesting to me is thinking about all the intersections. And that's another reason why I'm excited to, I hope to be able to be a legislator is because, when you're talking about equity and you start talking about transportation, then you have to think about housing, accessibility, public transportation. Is it clean? Is it safe? Is it accessible for people?
The old model of having a hub and spoke system is really not as relevant as it used to be, particularly after the pandemic. So, as a social worker, I always think about things like, what are the impacts of every aspect of people's lives and how they create stress, how they create happiness and joy. And that's why I think it's really exciting to think about legislation and how you have to think of a lot of different issues in every issue that brings in something else. And if ultimately we want equity, we want all people to have access to the things they need for a healthy, happy, safe life. It really brings you to the roads and the housing and the construction, and transportation rights. All of that stuff that integrates together and again, having different voices with different life experiences in different professions coming to the state to legislate. You're going to get more creativity and you're going to actually help more people.
Eileen Rochford [00:37:25] Great point. That holistic thinking that you're describing, Eileen, I think even today is so much more critical even than it was 10 years ago. So thank you for bringing that up. Very thought-provoking. As we all look at who we're going to vote for. People think that way. Here on our show, we often talk about how communications really can change everything for better and for worse.
I'd love to hear both of you talk about communications challenges you've encountered in your various roles. And I'm not just talking about the public sector, just all the roles that you've had in your lives. Particular examples of communications challenges that you may have faced really being a woman in your industry. And I know, Eileen, you come from more of a female majority area of work being in mental health and you've pretty much your whole life and in sectors where it was predominantly male. It sounds like from what I read and what you said. But nonetheless, I think you both have very likely encountered challenges like this that really were largely due to the fact that you're women would love to talk about that since communications is a huge part of what we focus on here on the show.
Ann Williams [00:38:49] Yeah, there's an I was just recalling a conversation I had with a colleague of mine, a black colleague of mine. We were engaged in a negotiation on an item and there were several people in the room and we both walked out kind of shook our heads. It was being led by two men, experienced men, white men that had done a lot of work in the space that we were talking about and we just walked out and kind of felt like that. It was kind of a tense negotiation and we felt that people fell into almost stereotypical roles. So with the women, I'll just stick with that. We agreed that the women felt or I felt and I noticed that it seemed like we were fighting to be heard. And, we had some other observations about the dynamics in the room.
I just went through this exercise well, what if I was in charge or what if you were in charge of the negotiation? Would the guys be fighting to be heard or would it be different? And so those interpersonal dynamics that play out when you're going out with friends when you're in any sort of work situations, play out really in a negotiating room in the General Assembly. And it was just kind of fun to toy with the idea of what it would be like if the roles were reversed. And what if we did shake up things and I think we're getting there, but for now, we sometimes still do find ourselves in those more traditional roles. And I walked out and one of the other women in the room, we just shook our heads and laughed. There's a whole mansplaining thing that happens from time to time. In that particular meeting, I'll tell you one story. I started to ask a question of whoever was presenting, and in the middle of my question, a male colleague said what Ann meant to say, No kidding. Our role of women that we're seeing together, we just laughed. We just laughed because. It was so outrageous, it was funny. Good guy didn't mean to be excited to weigh in, but anyway, it still happens. But we can, we can look at it, we can talk with colleagues about it, we can observe it and move forward and learn and teach. True story.
Eileen Rochford [00:40:56] Wow, I'm still kind of searching for words to respond.
Rob Johnson [00:41:01] It's a little cringy.
Eileen Rochford [00:41:04] Interestingly, in situations like that. Do you feel it's appropriate to kind of take the moment to say, no, I can explain for myself, Thank you?
Ann Williams [00:41:18] I think I probably said I got it or something like that. It's that classic thing, and I don't want to go back to feminism one on one. But it's that classic thing, women that are assertive and authoritative and sometimes are perceived as too aggressive, and too assertive it's that same thing. I've been reading about this since my feminist books in college. It's that same dynamic.
Women have to work harder. I think the same would be true for other groups. People of color have to work harder to be heard, to be seen, to be respected. And I'm not complaining because we work hard and we can make it happen. We can do great things. But every now and then we slip back into a place where we kind of get into this cliché space and have to make some corrections. But yeah, I'm comfortable at this point in my career and my life too to have a conversation. And if we hadn't all laughed so visibly, I probably would have said something to the person. I think he got it.
Rob Johnson [00:42:16] And I think one other thing to add about what you were just talking about feminism. Representative Williams is also when people say, Oh gosh, she's being so this or that or that some of the things you were talking about. It's also reflective of the person who feels that way. In other words. I would say, Oh gosh, so-and-so is really being whatever. If I have confidence and if I care about having other voices heard and if I care about making sure that things are equitable, if somebody does that, I'm not naturally going to say, Gosh why is she being so pushy?
So, I think part of the equation here is, yes, the way women might be viewed through that prism. But it's also the people that are viewed through that prism. And if they don't have confidence and if they're narrow-minded, and if they think that men should be ruling the roost all the time, then they're going to react a certain way. And if you're confident and if you think that everybody should have a voice and you think that all opinions are important, not just yours, you might react differently. So I think it's a double-edged sword there.
Ann Williams [00:43:19] I will say we're all about the same age here, I'm guessing. But I don't think it is true for the younger generations. I think they are in a different place. I have not noticed or seen it in the younger generation, so that's the good news. We're just kind of still evolving.
Eileen Rochford [00:43:36] Definitely. I've even seen it in my own household. And Eileen, I want you to weigh in here. So I don't want to take the focus away from your response for too long. But even in my own household, it's interesting because I've always considered myself to be pretty assertive, pretty goal-oriented, kind of a stronger female role type. And my husband has been nothing but supportive of me from the moment I met him.
Interestingly, just between the women in our house and the men in our house, I've seen this shift in the last three to four years where the women are calling out things that the men in our house may not be aware of. And we're not afraid to do it. So there is definitely an energy that's out there now where there's the awareness of it and the normalizing of having the conversations, which I personally am pretty grateful for. So Eileen, let's hear from you.
Eileen Dordek[00:44:36] Thanks. I was just thinking that like I'm a social worker, I'm a therapist. I get a certain amount of authority given to me within those relationships. So I'm very comfortable and confident, kind of taking charge of a conversation when I'm working. Just like with your doctor, when you go to your doctor, you usually like, elevate your doctor and their knowledge of and listen to them. And that's the benefit that I get with the licensed clinical social worker crown that I wear at my job. But that said, when I'm in other environments, I am acutely aware of my privilege. You can't see me but, I've got gray hair, I'm petite, I'm a mom, I kind of exude mom energy I think a little bit.
I try to be really careful, like I want to elevate other people. I want other voices, but I do have to step out, and especially as a candidate like I have to step out sometimes and I have to be a little more assertive. I mean, Eileen R, Ann you both know me. I'm confident. But knowing kind of when Eileen, get your ass in gear and like, be assertive in this moment. Or maybe it's OK to interrupt somebody in this setting when maybe otherwise you wouldn't do that. So that's a challenge is I think they internalize a sense of like my role in the world and my internalized sense of privilege, but also like wanting to always listen to other people, but if you're going to be a leader, sometimes you have to step out in front and so I try and do to make that balance work.
Rob Johnson [00:46:24] Really great point to add there, because that's key and it's a little bit about self-awareness, too, it's like how people are viewing you, but it's also what do I need to do to make a difference there? I'm glad that we were touching on feminism and advocating for women's issues. Both of you are leaders in your community and in the state.
As we wrap things up here, I'd love to hear your guidance from both of you on how everyone can play an important role in advancing women's issues, whether they're an elected official or even if they're not part of a democratic organization or they're not a social worker who's well known in the community, whatever the case may be. How can women do this? Because anybody can do it if they so choose.
Eileen Dordek[00:47:12] I'll jump in. When I thought about this question and was thinking one of the things I'm most proud about actually is how I've not only I have raised my daughter, but how I've raised my son, and I know that's specific to people who parent or people who get interaction and Ann, through politics get a lot of interaction with young people. And I do think that young people are an opportunity to help make a better world, and we don't obviously, they don't need us to tell them what to do.
But as a parent with my son talking about equity, talking about issues of consent, about the way we listen to rap music together, what are they saying in that song? How is that objectifying women? How would you feel if your body was talked about in that way? And, actually, to my children's horror, I often address their friends and did, especially when they were in high school about those issues as well and about again, like consent and objectification. I'm not sure that the guys were getting it at home, so I wanted to make sure they heard it when they were in our house. How about you Ann?
Ann Williams [00:48:27] Well, I think a couple of things come to mind. First of all, I just have to comment, both Eileen's have used the term complacency as well as Eileen R, you tied it into a comfort level. And I think right now the biggest lesson I am taking away from my experience in Illinois government and politics is you can easily get to a place where you are comfortable. But that is not too far from being complacent. And that means not just on issues like big, sweeping issues like reproductive health care, but how you respond to dynamics in your own space, whether it's if you are very involved in your school or whether you're very involved in the Legislature or in an organization like personal PAC. If you just stay comfortable, you are not going to move forward, and that means you have to be uncomfortable.
I would say in the General Assembly, the last year or so has been a bit uncomfortable. You have to take some risks. You can't always and you won't always get it right. But I think women that are willing to do that in whatever space they are in will be heard and you have to be OK with that uncomfortable feeling and it will pass. And in the future, you never know what those challenges can bring to you. I think personally in the community I've worked in,
I've worked with so many women who have had power that they probably don't recognize. I work a lot with neighborhood schools and some of my strongest positions and the greatest things that I've done legislatively have stemmed from conversations with those CPS moms. I'll tell you, that's a force to be reckoned with. And those women and the moms and dads from CPS have really shaped my agenda, really educated me about the importance of schools. From there, I learned a lot about public safety. What keeps neighborhoods strong is, small business owners also interface with those same communities. So I probably will tell these people over time.
I think people need to recognize their own power to influence me, influence the organizations they work and influence other community members. And that's an important first step. I remember on Facebook, some woman was talking about an issue related to a school, and I cited her name down meant to follow up with her. She had an opinion on a controversial issue at a school, and she said, I don't know if the kids are going to listen to me. I'm just a middle-aged white woman and I'm like, Oh, what kind of message are you sending? And I wanted to call her and say, take that, own it, and recognize the power you have in this conversation. Whether you're middle-aged, whether you're a person of color, whether you're a white person, whether you're a man, whether you're a younger person, I recognize and claim that you have a voice to share. And that's something that people, oh, you know, I'm just on the LSC at my school or I'm just doing some work on the fundraiser. But you have a lot of impact and people are watching what you're doing, they're listening to what you say. Probably more than you realize.
Eileen Rochford [00:51:30] That's such a great observation. Thank you. I love that. That's very encouraging. And obviously, that applies to everybody, men, women, everyone in the world because we all can play a role in advancing these issues that are important. Whether it's an individual group or a special interest, or not, we all can support and help advocate and normalize conversations and take opportunities to not let the moment go and have some influence on it. So I appreciate that. Thanks, Ann.
I think about my own kids, too Eileen in what to do. And how we've been parenting them and how we've been trying to encourage them to have voices. It's an interesting time for young women and young men in a lot of ways. Particularly my young man he struggles sometimes with, Well, where's my place in that feminist issue? I can't authentically talk about that. That wouldn't be right. So, figuring out a way where men can be supportive and behave like feminists, I think is also an important thing for us to consider these days because we're not going to be able to do this ourselves. That's pushing a boulder up a mountain. We need everybody pushing the boulder. That's my opinion. Well, I just want to express my gratitude. And Rob, I know you share it. To both of you, Eileen D, Ann thank you for being here today. Is there anything else that you'd like to say to our listeners on this topic before we close?
Ann Williams [00:53:14] Well, I would be remiss if I did not say that it is so important to vote even if I disagree with your politics. It is so important. For your voice to be heard and for people to learn who's on the ballot all the way down to the bottom because there are some really, really important races like judges down at the bottom that deeply affect our lives. And please, the primary is going to be June 28th. And it's a different time of year, usually in March. But it's because the census was late and the mapmaking was late. It's June 28th, and I hope everybody who hears this podcast comes out to vote.
Eileen Dordek[00:53:54] And I'll just echo that, and just a reminder for listeners, anyone and everyone is welcome and in the government and political space in Illinois, you just have to decide that you want to be a part of it and make it happen, and it's no longer what it used to be. There's not really much of the machine left. It's really about regular people getting involved and getting engaged.
Rob Johnson [00:54:16] Tremendous insight, and we just can't thank both of you enough for all of it today. Thank you for weighing in on some really important issues and for bringing such great candor to the conversation.
Ann Williams [00:54:28] Thanks for having me.
Eileen Dordek[00:54:29] Thanks so much.
Eileen Rochford [00:54:35] And that will do it for another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of The Harbinger Group.
Rob Johnson [00:54:41] And I'm Rob Johnson, President of Rob Johnson Communications. We thank you for listening. And remember, you can listen to this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Apple, Google, Spotify, and more. Thanks for listening.