In 2022, corporations everywhere are taking bold positions as they relate to a number of issues, including the Russian invasion of Ukraine and Texas' anti-transgender legislation just to name a few of many, but can publicly take a stance on these pressing issues of our time enhance or harm a company's brand? Join co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson for this episode of the Can You Hear Me? Podcast as they discuss the nuances and the pitfalls of corporate activism, can it be a slippery slope?
2022 Global Communications Report on the future of corporate activism
Rob Johnson [00:00:13] In 2022, corporations everywhere are taking bold positions as they relate to a number of issues, including the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Texas is anti-transgender legislation just to name a few of many, but can publicly take a stance on these pressing issues of our time to enhance or harm a company's brand? Join co-host Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson for this episode of the Can You Hear Me podcast as they discuss the nuances and the pitfalls of corporate activism, can it be a slippery slope? Hello again, everyone, I'm Rob Johnson, President of the consulting firm Rob Johnson Communications Welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast.
Eileen Rochford [00:00:56] And I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing strategy firm The Harbinger Group. If you've listened to our podcast, you know, we like to discuss the most weighty and topical communications issues of the day. The face company is day in and day out. Today's topic is corporate activism. Is it a slippery slope? What we mean is that CEOs are facing more and more pressure to speak out on societal issues that historically have been taboo to talk about for fear of offending their customers or their clients.
Rob Johnson [00:01:27] We've been talking a lot about CEO brand building and some of the episodes that have preceded this one. It's not the job title, but the job requirements of a CEO. And now people are looking at these CEOs and they're saying, What are you doing to make the world a better place? What are you saying about this issue or about that issue? And so this is new territory for a lot of them.
Eileen Rochford [00:01:56] It is, and it's a complex thing, too. You would think it's as simple as deciding we're not going to comment on sensitive issues that don't pertain to the running of our business. And that's a safe place where you could kind of hang out on the sidelines. And that's really how things I think used to be. But more and more, there is a mounting body of evidence that there's an expectation on the part of your customers, your clients, your employees, your prospective employees, and other stakeholders, like your partners. They're all saying, we want the brands and the companies we do business with to take a stand on the important things that are happening in the world right now. So it's not a safe place.
The sidelines aren't the safe place that they used to be. And decisions are having to be made that impact everything from your brand's communications to your strategy in terms of fielding questions like this from your various constituents. All of that has to be taken into account now versus just decided. We're going to hit the pause button on that because that really doesn't pertain to us. So that's a complex thing. Don't you think, Rob? How you're going about approaching that for an individual company that's out of the gate, I think some of them we might want to talk about today.
Rob Johnson [00:03:23] Well, I think we have to talk about some of the things we talked about before, which is the authenticity to your brand. So that's one point that you want to make if it's authentic to your brand and it's something that you do, typically, it's easy to say I'm going to weigh in on this, but you just made a great point, Eileen, which is that people are being asked to leave their comfort zones. Companies that don't typically talk about these issues are now being said OK, OK, boss, what say you? And everybody's looking at him or her, the boss and waiting for a response, waiting for leadership on a particular issue in some of these things are very controversial.
Eileen Rochford [00:04:02] We also see, I think, an increasing acceptance and encouragement in places like LinkedIn for people to talk about these important issues. Whereas before it was almost like the separation of church and state. You just talked about the things that were central to whatever it is that you do at work or whatever it is that your company does as a business and more and more lots of different roles and companies. I'm seeing those folks talk about issues that really would seemingly be tangential to the work that they do. But somehow it all seems to be kind of blending together now. And that's kind of a curious phenomenon. Have you noticed similar occurrences, your observations out there on LinkedIn?
Rob Johnson [00:04:53] It does feel like things are sort of all coming together because we talk about these things not necessarily in vacuums, but they're all sort of, here's an issue here. Here's an issue there, and here's an issue over here. And then all of a sudden, those two or three things feel like they're melting a little bit more and that they are related to one another. And it's all built around whether you're a CEO, whether it's your brand, whether it's your company's brand, whether it's the way you did business, you're now having to do it in a different way.
The personality profile and the job requirements of a CEO are so much different than they used to be, and we'll get into that in a little bit. But that, to me, is what's so fascinating is that you can no longer A. sit on the sidelines, as you said, or B. not have an opinion, not show leadership, because everybody's like, where's the leadership? And before it used to be like, I don't want to offend anybody because I want all my customers, all my clients to like us. And so we're going to straddle that fence. And now these CEOs are being forced to not straddle the fence to jump on one side of it or the other side of it.
Eileen Rochford [00:06:00] Yeah, it is interesting, too. I think we've evolved a lot in terms of business strategy in general as well. Most organizations and most brands are well aware that everyone is not their customer anymore. And really understanding the behaviors and the triggers of the people who are best suited to be your customer, that's where it's at. We all know that. Unfortunately, what that comes along with now is also that aspect of, well, it's not good enough to just sell me the product or to make a great product that I come back to time and time again for. I come to you because your values are aligned with mine. I believe in what you do and how you do it, said brand. Therefore, I want to see that you're standing on the side of right and massive societal issues.
In particular, things that kind of transcend like we talked about in a prior episode, the war in Ukraine, for example, that definitely is almost one of those transcending issues that they're more and more brands are expected to say what they think about it and be visible about it in some capacity, so it's a rapidly evolving world with obviously very high stakes and some slippery ground where you can pretty easily mess it up if you don't give it some, some good thought. And as you mentioned, I think starting with your values is a great place to begin the conversation. But sometimes you're going to face questions, issues that it's not just about your values, it's also about that fundamental kind of what's right, if you will question. So learning how to navigate that right now, it's becoming increasingly clear is very, very important.
Rob Johnson [00:07:58] It really is. And that's a great segway to when we talk about how the world and the workforce have changed so much and the expectations of leadership from your rank and file workers first and foremost, and then certainly customers and clients not saying something about Russia's invasion of Ukraine, for instance, could run you afoul of not only the workforce, but those customers, like I said, who may like your company because of your social conscience. The flip side, of course, is that you take a position on an important issue. Our society is so polarized politically that you are likely to offend at least some people. And that gets into not everybody's your customer. The thing you just mentioned a second ago.
The question is, are you earning favor with the audience you want to earn favor with? The people who are your customers, which might outweigh the audience you might offend, which may be not as devoted customers as the ones who want you to comment on something. And as we're talking about Ukraine, there are a couple of things. It's really easy right now because I feel like the world is like, How can Russia be doing this? And for as polarized as we are, I feel like people can identify and say, that is wrong. The place it gets tricky is where the companies have relationships in Russia. They've done business in Russia for years since the Iron Curtain fell, and they've made a lot of money there. They've had long-term relationships in Russia, and now they're having to either divest or they're having leave or they're shutting down their operations. Whatever the case is, that's where it gets tougher. You've had this great relationship, a profitable relationship for years. And now because of this aggression, because of the atrocities. Everything else, you're having to make those tough decisions, I think. I think that's sort of an issue. We're talking about Russia, Ukraine, and then sort of a subject sort of a subcategory of that.
Eileen Rochford [00:09:52] That is so tough, and it's so interesting. Like I keep calling that issue the war and the crisis in Ukraine, an issue that kind of transcends. And I firmly believe that because you see the volume of companies, especially those who have vested interests financially deciding to cease their operations, pull out, et cetera. And that's going to hurt. So they wouldn't do that if they really didn't believe that being on the side of rights was the place that they needed to be. No matter the consequence. So there are those major trends, and transcending issues that companies face now. But then there are also kind of more local issues that may be about issues that are in their State House or even issues that kind of may have more religious overtones associated with them.
Rob Johnson [00:11:00] And we're going to get to one of those issues a little bit later in this podcast, which is a really important one. But to your point about the politics of it as well, you step out and you say this is wrong and you know that you're going to offend maybe half the people. But yeah, it is so polarizing politically, and we're going to get into polarization here in just a second as well. But it really is an interesting dichotomy, though, because I really like what you said earlier about not everybody being my customer and I'm and that acknowledgment, that ability to discern who is and who isn't can help guide you a little bit in this. Still understanding, though, that you don't want to alienate a section of your potential audience, your business partners.
Eileen Rochford [00:11:51] Personally, I think everybody needs almost their own little rubric now for determining when do we step out on this and when do we stay out of it? And while values are a place to start there seems to be a lot more to it now than just the simple values question. So I'm curious to talk about what other elements should be evaluated when people are determining whether or not they should participate in the public discourse? Some of these societal issues, particularly those that have religious overtones. That's a place where it may be an easy place to draw the line and say, OK, well, that really has everything to do with personal religious beliefs, and that's not a place where we play. And you can like that or you can dislike that, but that's a decision that we have made as a company.
Rob Johnson [00:12:56] Or you could be a brand that doubles down on it.
Eileen Rochford [00:12:59] You can. Like in Chick-Fil-A. Because if that's who you are that's OK. But if you're not at your core, then fundamentally just stay away from it every time. In my opinion.
Rob Johnson [00:13:15] That's always been the rule, Eileen, and in my mind, and I know in yours too. But I feel like the comfort zone that these CEOs might have been in like to say, Well, that's not something we normally talk about, which speaks to the authenticity of whatever statement you're going to put out. But now the expectation really feels like you've got to say something. You can't just say that's not central to our brand or that's not what we've done in the past.
It feels like companies that haven't said anything are being pressured by some of these stakeholders, most of the internal stakeholders, and maybe a few external ones to the customers and clients who are saying I want to do business with you, I want to feel good about doing business with you. I know you make a great product, but what else do you do? And when it comes to what else do you do? That's where you may feel the pressure. I've got to do something or I've got to say something, and this is not something that I normally have done before as a leader of a company. Yeah.
Eileen Rochford [00:14:15] Do you think, though, Rob, that just that the presence of pressure is ever enough or cause enough to compel action?
Rob Johnson [00:14:27] A couple of years ago, I would have said no. I would say you have to be true to who you are and that sort of thing. But I think this is some of the documentation that's out there now we're going to get to a report here in just a second. It kind of speaks to it really makes it feel like the proverbial heat has been turned up and you've got to do something, you've got to say something. You have so many of these issues and we're expecting you, Mr. Mrs. CEO, to weigh in on these weighty issues where in years past, maybe you didn't have to.
So it depends on when you're asking that question. You're asking the question right now. And the answer is, I think times have changed. Yeah, and that's the hard part because it used to be so easy. Just think about it, I would say to clients, is this authentic to your brand? Do you normally make statements about this particular issue? And if they said no, I'd say we'll sit it out. And if your answer is yes, I'm like, you should say something. That was the guidance I would have given two years ago. And now, because of all of these competing interests, the things we're talking about are melding together a little bit. I really feel like there is an expectation. So, keen and so clear. That something has to be done. And if you're not comfortable with that, you are leaving your comfort zone in a big way.
Eileen Rochford [00:15:54] For sure. There's no question about it. I think the difference for me today is that the simple litmus test that you just described that was valid two years ago truly is no longer valid. But it's enough now because of the awareness of the expectation to know that you at least have to consider it. You at least have to go through the process of evaluating what might be our stance on this and what might we want to say publicly?
You're not always going to determine that a public statement of some sort, even internal, is required. But going through the process of evaluating that and determining whether you should or not, that's something that I know CEOs, leaders, officer positions, and organizations are having to face and have to do now, whereas they could have easily dismissed it in the past. They can't do that anymore. They have to at least go through the exercise of evaluation,
Rob Johnson [00:16:59] At the very least.
Eileen Rochford [00:17:01] Very least. No doubt.
Rob Johnson [00:17:02] Maybe even more and maybe, even more, is required.
Eileen Rochford [00:17:04] For sure. There are so many things that have come up that it has been necessary for I'd say, the majority of larger organizations to think through and put out a statement about and certainly reevaluate their own policies and procedures and lots and lots of other things, no doubt about it. I think the fundamental thing that applies to nearly every leader, every organization now is you cannot just dismiss it. You have to evaluate it and decide. So getting that rubric sorted that you're going to use is a pretty important thing now versus being kind of caught on your back foot and just having to real or be reeling from the situation when it arises.
Rob Johnson [00:17:52] I couldn't agree more. And I think that's a great point of clarification to make, too, about the way things were versus the way things are now and how there are no easy answers.
Eileen Rochford [00:18:02] So to put some context around this, we want to refer to this recently released USC Annenberg Center for Public Relations. The 2022 Global Communications Report on the future of corporate activism. And in it there is a major discussion about polarization, saying it is no longer the result of disagreements. It is the cause of them.
77 percent of communications professionals said that polarization is a real challenge when trying to achieve one's organizational communications goals. In fact, 77 percent said polarization is bad for the country, which is bad for business. I don't think any of us disagree with this, Rob. For me, the question is, what the heck can we do about it?
Rob Johnson [00:18:51] Well, let's unpack this a little bit. That notion that the first stats from the Annenberg report, which is polarization, is a real challenge when trying to achieve one's organizational communications goals. So you're a communications professional PR CMO, whatever the case may be, and you have a narrative that you want to share about your company and because of polarization, because you may be forced to wade into some of these issues, you're having to go places that may not help you from a PR standpoint.
I think that's what they're talking about here is that you know what, 77 percent say polarization is a real challenge when trying to achieve your own communication goals internally in your organization, that's real because you want to stay focused on what the message is and what it needs to be and what everybody's agreed upon. But all of a sudden, these external things happen. These issues crop up. People say, What do you think? What do you think, company? And you have to go, Gosh, we have to spend time, effort and we have to really be thoughtful about it. We can't do lip service to it.
Eileen Rochford [00:19:59] And especially if you have a leadership style and an organizational executive leadership team kind of culture where consensus is important to you. Polarization is going to cause some big issues, not just in terms of your communications, but in terms of how you move forward and initiatives. If they are divisive in some way because they touch on societal issues that cause people to really dig in in terms of their beliefs and their own personal values.
Imagine navigating all of that. You kind of have to find the right people who are able to just discern what fits at work and what really doesn't fit at work, I think that that still is true. There's a need for that. I'm not going to call it compartmentalization, but there are elements of being able to discern really what is appropriate to dig in about if it is not completely linked to work and the company's values. That's if I were leading large leadership teams, that's something that I would certainly be looking for right about now, in particular, because of the issue of not being able to agree on means stagnation. You're not able to move forward. And that's not something anybody wants or needs right now. You need to be flexible and nimble and able to adapt.
Rob Johnson [00:21:27] It's the exact opposite of where you need to be, as you just pointed out, and all of a sudden you have issues that bog you down that don't allow for consensus, and it's not wasted energy, but it's the energy you have to expend to overcome it, to come up with something that is, let's just say, as uniform as it's going to be where there appears to be the consensus. But if you truly don't have consensus, if you have disagreements, it's going to be hard to get your message out there in any sort of coherent way, I think.
Eileen Rochford [00:22:02] Yeah, you're completely right. The deliberation process will, I think, cost increasing amounts of time as this polarization in our society deepens. So determining who are the right people to help lead you through is going to be really important right about now.
Rob Johnson [00:22:25] Really important. And as you're sitting here talking about this, Eileen, I look at the second 77 percent that said polarization is bad for the country, which is bad for business. And I think that you just gave the example of why that would be the case because, there's polarization, we're people right? Not everybody agrees on things. All of a sudden, you have some of these weighty issues, some of these bigger issues, some of these more controversial issues that your company is being asked to comment on or weigh in on. It could be bad for business if you can't speak in a uniform and united way.
So this Annenberg report that we're referencing goes on to tackle what we will call CEO self-awareness. Back in the day, maybe five years ago when a CEO was asked his or her primary function was. The answer would be to drive shareholder value. You've heard that time and time again. Now that goal seems much different. In fact, the chairman and CEO of the CRM behemoth Salesforce said, “I strongly believe the business of a business is to improve the world.” That sounds different, right? In fact, 83 percent of PR executives said business has a powerful platform it can use to speak on important issues, which is exactly the opposite of what they were doing maybe five or 10 years ago. This kind of notion to me is very eye-opening.
Eileen Rochford [00:23:51] I agree. And, I am a massive Marc Benioff fan. He's like one of my total faves. I think I've read every book that he has written.
Rob Johnson [00:24:00] I know you are a devotee of Marc.
Eileen Rochford [00:24:02] I am. And he's great. I always read what he says. Not with a grain of salt, but with a tad. Let's call it a touch of realism about it. He's an incredible individual and it's an incredible company that he's created, but not every company can do an act like Marc Benioff and Salesforce. They've set themselves up to be able to do that. They also run themselves so well that they can choose to take an action that may cost them financially. But it doesn't really impact them that significantly, nor do they even care.
I 1000 percent respect that in every way, and I wish every company could operate that way. I just think when I read him, I often think, so how would this apply to a small company in the health care sector that maybe we work with as a client? Where could they emulate the actions and the positions that Merck and Salesforce take? And it's not very easy. Nine times out of 10 for them to be able to replicate that. But we all need heroes. We all need models to aspire to be. I certainly think that how he's done it, how his leadership is certainly not done alone, but how he and his leadership team have been able to do what they do as successfully as they have for as long as they have.
It's a great place to start, and I know that one of the first things he always says is that their decision-making process is very values-based. It is also frank and open like they never accept that what they have done is at face value, good enough, or right. They open it up to outside scrutiny. They welcome input from all kinds of sources. And there's been so many examples in his books, particularly about pay equity and the lack thereof between their female engineers and other female executives. He tackled that head. I still don't think it's completely solved. They admit that, but they certainly thought This is something that we're doing right? What do you mean?
Of course, we are. Well, then the data proved otherwise, and he ripped it open and really made candidly an issue inside the organization that they rectified. And, all due respect for how he and his leadership team have done that. There are lots of other companies that do it on a day-to-day basis that you and I respect. I know we've talked about it, but it is hard to find the comfort zone where you can do that. And I think that's really what we're talking about here, which is that comfort zones may just be a thing of the past.
Rob Johnson [00:27:08] Yeah, I think just scratching the surface on this Annenberg report definitely drives that point home. And what's interesting when you're talking about Marc Benioff here and about how he's taken, what he's doing at Salesforce and how he's created a culture and how he's had this openness and frankness. And as a culture creator, he has done certain things that help guide him in terms of where he thinks he should be as a CEO. But I really was intrigued by your notion that if you plug and play that somewhere else at a different company, at a smaller company, at a company that maybe has not developed that culture as clearly as Salesforce has, it may not be great advice for somebody else. I think that's kind of where you're headed with that initially.
Eileen Rochford [00:27:59] No doubt about it. There have been very few occasions where I could apply an example from either Salesforce or other companies that I really respect, even mid-sized companies like Pansies, the spice company, and they're very true to their ideology and their values and everything that they do and come straight out about it politically. Time and time again, I respect that. That's a much smaller company that stays true to their values. But it's pretty hard to look at kind of your small to the midsize typical organization and be able to see them functioning in a similar way, as I'll call it, as all in. As for Marc Benioff and his leadership, that's fair. Being on so many political issues, it can be too dangerous, frankly, for many of those companies, they just don't have the cush that Salesforce does to protect them financially.
Rob Johnson [00:29:06] It's a great point. Great point.
Eileen Rochford [00:29:08] Yeah. So I love it. I love the belief that we should do that. And I love that 73 percent of these PR leaders also believe that their company will increase its dialog over one or more social issues over the next year. I love seeing that. It makes the prospect of doing the job that we do that much more exciting and invigorating, but just tempering that it is not always possible. So a large part of our job may also be finding out how to not get as involved as the expectations in the pressure might seemingly demand and still come out of it looking and functioning. OK. I think that's a large part of our job now.
Rob Johnson [00:30:02] I agree, and when these PR leaders acknowledge that this dialog on some of these key issues is going to increase over the next year, they know, referencing some of the earlier numbers that we were about having to weigh in on these things that maybe are not always a winner for you from a messaging standpoint, but you have to do it anyway. And that's the expectation. So I think that's really interesting when three-quarters of these PR leaders acknowledge that we're going to have a dialogue on some of these major social issues over the next year.
Being authentic to your brand is so important, as we pointed out. If your company has not spoken out on issues before, it can be this slippery slope that we referenced for the title of this podcast. Today's podcast, because this report acknowledges that some companies are not always comfortable doing this, and we've already well-established this right. We've talked about it a little bit earlier about how this isn't necessarily in everybody's comfort zone, but there is an understanding that 93 percent of those questioned say they are spending far more time talking about it and taking a position on the key societal issues because they are forced to. They're forced to leave that comfort zone that we were talking about earlier, Eileen.
Eileen Rochford [00:31:18] And I wonder if as part of this, as we kind of find our way through knowing what we know now because of these major data points, the Edelman Trust Barometer also delved deeply into these expectations of CEOs taking positions, leadership, teams, brands, et cetera. So we know we're getting a shape or a picture, it's starting to form expectations. I wonder if some of the outcome of this understanding may be brands even acknowledging that we're reflecting on this. We understand this is important.
Here's what we are able to say about what we're doing about it right now or what we think is where we need to go in the future. And I wonder if that is going to become part of the pause action. Like at least seem we're delving into this. We're considering this. We're thinking about it because we recognize how important it is to everyone we do business with. And therefore we're taking this very seriously and will be forming our plan of action. I think that that may be a place where lots of brands are going to have to be comfortable going because doing nothing and saying nothing truly isn't going to be an option anymore. So at least reflecting that we're taking the steps of evaluation, maybe a place that you know, leaders are going to have to push themselves to get comfortable with soon.
Rob Johnson [00:32:58] And also, I want to take that a step further to Eileen. When you're talking about these brands, it's sort of like the basics of PR. Don't say no. Don't kick the can down the road. But at the same time, is the pressure strong enough now that even if you say we're studying it, give us a little while to come up with a plan for this and that? Are people going to criticize you for even that which is if you're talking about it from a PR standpoint saying no comment or I have nothing to say? No Bueno at all.
If you say I'm thinking about this and I'm going to come up with an answer for you, and if you appear to be playing ball, if you appear to be apparently thoughtful, sometimes they'll cut you some slack. But I don't know the answer to this, I'm just raising the pressure so much to weigh in on these issues that you really need to think about and talk about it before publicly. You say, Well, we're really going to think about that and come up with a strategy that is true to our brand. I don't know the answer, but I just think it's an interesting question.
Eileen Rochford [00:34:06] It is. I'm intrigued by it. Absolutely. It's funny this question of pressure, I think about when my children were younger and the whole peer pressure, why would you succumb to that question? Honestly, I think it still kind of applies here. The expectation is one thing, being cognizant and aware and appreciating and factoring in these expectations from your various constituencies is essential right now. No one is debating that.
Acting strictly out of pressure, in my opinion, is never a good enough reason to do anything. That's counsel that I think I would give time and time again and evaluate before you take action.
Rob Johnson [00:34:58] Yes, no question about that. And I think it's interesting you're bringing up something that we talked about a little bit earlier, which is kind of referencing the CEO self-awareness, the self-awareness you have to have to do the job well now is far greater than perhaps it was several years ago.
Eileen Rochford [00:35:14] Right. And confidence. Yeah, for sure. Recognizing that not leading to a cult of the personality type of leader right now is extremely important, I should say. So let's take one example of speaking out and taking a stand on a societal issue. Maybe this will help us explore this further. For me and further, yeah the Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer civil rights organization, partnered with 60 companies, including marquee names like Apple, Google, IBM, Metta, and Microsoft, just to name a few. Signed a letter condemning the Texas governor and attorney general for their anti-LGBTQ plus efforts to write discrimination into law. This was another major step forward with Mega Brands. Stepping out on the issue and we're seeing this more and more, and this was a big one.
Rob Johnson [00:36:19] Very controversial, and the thing that I would say about this is some of the political discourse in this country, sometimes where we're vilifying a certain segment of society. And I know some people might be saying, Oh gosh, we're so politically correct, we're so woke, whatever. There may be some truth to that, but what I'm saying is the world is not going in the direction of being exclusive and not being inclusive to people who may be underrepresented, who when it comes to our awareness of other people now our sensitivities are heightened.
So when there is a law to tee off on the LGBTQ+ community as and certainly more specifically transgender individuals, it just doesn't feel like that's where the world needs to go. And yet so many politicians and so many leaders feel so comfortable. Hey, let's tee off on these people. That's just not where the world's going. And so I really appreciate the fact that some of these big companies and there are obviously others that are 60 companies we named the top like five are saying, no, that's not the way the world is going. That's not the way our world is going. That's not the way our world should be going.
I feel really strongly about that because I have a brother with a disability and it's always been so easy to just sort of marginalize that segment of society. And now you see commercials, you see the thought leadership, that sort of thing where they're being included. That's the way the world's going. You don't have to appreciate every nuance of that journey. But you have to respect it. That's what I believe.
Eileen Rochford [00:38:03] Oh, yeah, 100 percent. You and I are so lean on that, and I hope our listeners fully recognize that's where we both stand. In my opinion, corporate activism at its very, very best doing something that's for the good of people who are so marginalized time and time and time again. I really respect every company that signed up in this condemnation letter, personally myself. But I also recognize that not it's not a good fit for every company to take a stand like that for various reasons. Totally get it.
In this case, when these are powerful Fortune 100 entities, largely these 60 companies, and they're throwing their weight around to tell the world, not just Texas, but the world, that this type of behavior is not where the world is headed, as you've said, and I know that's the perfect way to put it. So the impact of corporate activism. Now, I think in the last three, four, or five years and especially just in the last year or so, the power of that and the impact of it when used for good is something that we've never seen. And I think I'm happy about it in certain ways to see that that's where we're going. Less and less, it feels like we're able to help on a large scale just through government entities. That's unfortunate, but I think it's really true.
Rob Johnson [00:39:46] And I don't necessarily like it either, that some of these government entities based on politics and politics of the last five or six years, feel emboldened that we're sitting around the State House and more like, what? What do we need to do? What laws do we need to create? Let's come up with the anti-transgender legislation that would be awesome.
Eileen Rochford [00:40:10] Are we going back to the point about polarization now? Because I feel like they do cause to inflame a base by not doing it because there's actual progress that's represented or something that there's a benefit to be made to any of the populations who may feel like they're gaining some sort of power out of that move. It's simply a political move designed to make them look like they are strong and that they hold a position of power for the values that they represent. Again, I am no political advisor, everybody. I just played one on TV. But that's why they do it. It's power. It's no less damaging. I'm not dismissing the behavior.
Rob Johnson [00:40:53] But the point is also, and I agree with you wholeheartedly, there is the fact that people are so comfortable doing it now. They're so comfortable saying, You know what? This is what we're going to do. Yeah, they're playing it to a base. No question. But the fact that people are so comfortable saying it out loud. That's the part that gets me.
Eileen Rochford [00:41:16] I know it totally. I mean, I remember when Newt Gingrich was kind of like the person who, like, freaked everybody out because of the things that he would say, and this is so long ago, it's almost embarrassing. But at the time his statements were almost not few and far between. But there would be pauses in between maybe even months would go by, maybe even like a year before Newt would have another stupid campaign.
Now it's like every other day you read another headline and there's some other elected official or politician who's trying to be elected. Who's saying these horribly divisive and demeaning things about population groups who just don't have much of a base to be able to defend themselves. And it happens time and time again. Now it's very sad.
Rob Johnson [00:42:09] The thing I like, too, about this particular corporate activism as it relates to some of the companies that we referenced. And again, this was 60 big corporations signing on to this letter. And we mentioned like five of them, so much of them are are in the information business. And not only are they strong. I mean, multi billion-dollar companies also have a lot of influence in terms of information as well. And I'm not suggesting misinformation or disinformation campaigns. I'm just saying it's nice to see some of these people. They have muscle in several different ways, not just financial.
Eileen Rochford [00:42:49] Yeah. It's almost like the pulpit that they hold if you will. That Big Mike, that they can grab onto and speak into and have people pay attention to them, using those forces for good. They're wonderful things. I know I will always applaud that. But they are able to do it and they choose to do it. It's a wonderful thing. And yeah, I'm happy to see this trend growing. I also just want to encourage folks to look in the show notes because we'll include links to the Annenberg Report, the 2022 Annenberg Report. It's huge.
Rob Johnson [00:43:28] It's 42 pages. Yeah, it's a very expansive
Eileen Rochford [00:43:34] And any communications professional should absolutely make this one of their bedside reading. Yeah.
Rob Johnson [00:43:41] Well, we dove in with a couple of stats, but this thing is just chock full of statistics that back up the points that it's making. And so if you're interested in this, if this is your vocation, if this is where your interests are, you should really take a look at it.
Eileen Rochford [00:43:58] Yeah. And, let's just think the people who make that report possible we're very appreciative of that trust barometer every year, just as we're very appreciative of the USC Annenberg report and everyone from there are there. Society and Golan and other entities that make this report possible. It's something that all of us benefit from, and I'm very grateful to have the research. I think it teaches me something every single year when I read it. It's the kind of thing that you know, I go back to time and time again throughout the year and just derive some great insights that are beneficial to marketers and communications professionals that I work with. So that's going to do it for another episode of Can You Hear Me? Thanks for joining us. I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of The Harbinger Group.
Rob Johnson [00:44:48] And I'm Rob Johnson, President of Rob Johnson Communications. Remember, you can listen to this podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Apple, Google, Spotify, and more. Thanks for listening.