The Russian Invasion of Ukraine has caused international uproar and condemnation. While Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has become something of a cult hero taking up arms and fighting with his people, the world has vilified the brutish behavior of Russian President Vladimir Putin. But the communications challenges go far beyond the country’s leaders, American corporations, who have long done business in Russia are having to make crucial decisions on the future of those relationships. In this episode of Can You Hear Me, co-hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford discuss the many communications challenges related to the Ukraine Invasion.
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Rob Johnson [00:00:09] The Russian invasion of Ukraine has caused international uproar and condemnation, while Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has become something of a cult hero, taking up arms and fighting with his people. The world has vilified the brutish behavior of Russian President Vladimir Putin, but the communications challenges go far beyond the country's leaders. American corporations who have long done business in Russia are having to make crucial decisions on the future of those relationships. In this episode of Can, You Hear Me co-hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford discuss the many communications challenges related to the Ukraine invasion. Hello again, everyone, I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications.
Eileen Rochford [00:01:41] I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the Marketing and Strategy firm The Harbinger Group. Since communications strategy is our bread and butter here, Can you hear me? And there have been so many issues surrounding that topic related to the biggest news in the world right now. The Russian invasion of Ukraine. We thought it was important to devote episodes to this topic.
Rob Johnson [00:02:01] That's right, Eileen. And there are many topics of conversation on this front. The first one that comes to mind is the way the world has looked at Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the one-time comedian now leading his country against Russia's brutal dictator Vladimir Putin. And truly, Zelenskyy's introduction to the world, I think, came when the U.S. offered to come to get him and fly him into exile. Zelenskyy famously said, “I don't need a ride, I need ammunition,” which meant he was staying to fight side by side with his fellow Ukrainians. And so, think about this, Eileen, as your introduction really, on the world stage, I know people, diplomats and people that follow the government knew who Zelenskyy was, but the world didn't. And that's really the first thing we heard about, was, I'm not looking for a ride. I need ammunition. I'm staying to fight. And he would post these various videos that were very powerful, and they were down to earth, and people could relate to it. And now it feels like in a polarized world that we live in where politics, some people are looking at things one way. Some people are looking at things, others. I'm not saying everybody's on the side of Ukraine, but a large number of people are on the side of Ukraine and who can blame them?
Eileen Rochford [00:03:21] They have, and he, in particular, has captured the hearts and minds of so many, at least here on our side of the world. And we see that over and over. There's no doubt about it. It's a very compelling situation and a compelling story. It's got a lot of complexities to it as well, just the situation overall, which I think we all appreciate right? Nothing is as simple as it may seem, and there's so much going on here beneath it all behind the scenes that we don't see. But in terms of the storyline and where people's positions on this are falling. He himself and his actions have captured, as I said, hearts and minds. It's hard not to side with Ukraine when they're so small. And Russia is so big, and the atrocities that are being committed are being shown every single day on our small screens and our big screens. And the headlines are just dominating everything that we look at. It's hard not to really be affected by this.
Rob Johnson [00:04:32] No, you're absolutely right. And you think about somebody like Putin, who is president. He's democratically elected and I'm using air quotes. I can't see that on a podcast. But it's like he's tried a little bit more and a little bit more, and saying what happens if I push the envelope in Crimea and other places and now Ukraine. And listen whether it's obvious or not, and I think it's probably pretty obvious, I mean, here's somebody that would love to have the Soviet Union back, and that would be an absolutely awful idea on many fronts, most of which we don't have time to get into today. But this thing in Ukraine, people might say, Well, it's Ukraine, it's so small, as you pointed out. But no, you can't allow this to happen. What's to say he's not going to go? All right. I'm going to keep going to Poland, right? Oh hey, look. Sweden or Finland? And now I'm kind of being a little farcical, but not really, because this is what Nato was created for. Except for the guy that was in charge in Germany, Hitler, who created the most unthinkable atrocities in the history of the world. That's who it was created for. And now we have this guy and people are seeing him for what he truly is. Vladimir Putin is talking about.
Eileen Rochford [00:06:01] That's absolutely right. And from a leadership standpoint, and we talk about that a lot in the show, right? What Zelenskyy has done despite his background as being a comedian. People talk about that a lot. But I think that there's a lot more to this man than was appreciated prior to this point. He just demonstrates all of the right qualities. It's almost like a masterclass in leadership style and communication style, really, just following along with how he's handling the situation and how he's standing up for all that he and his country value and the way that he's telling the world this is what they need and this is what's required. And he's not settling for good enough. He wants everything. And I think that that's very admirable. But his leadership style is something that I know lots of people are following closely and paying much attention to. I'm seeing it written about almost on a daily basis now on LinkedIn. The attributes that he's exhibiting are just textbook in terms of excellence in leadership, and in communications.
Rob Johnson [00:07:18] But I think the subtext here, Eileen, and you make some great points there, and this is not to disparage comedians at all. It's to say here's a guy that's having a really horrible thing happen to his country. He is the president of this country, and here's a former comedian. And so you're thinking, Oh, he's a funny guy. And so maybe the bar's a little bit low when it comes to diplomacy. Not necessarily to the career that he chose initially. So again, please, I don't want anybody to mistake what I'm saying here. But the other part of it is the reason that he's probably so good at some of these other things you're talking about when it comes to messaging and when it comes to winning hearts and minds is, he's an actor and I'm not saying he's faking it, but he understands messaging and he understands how powerful it is. And he is making use of it and the world is following along. And he also knows there are other people that he may see as opportunists who are Western leaders who are like, Oh yeah, we're all in. Well, what are you doing to help me? You're going to do a no-fly zone. You're going to help me with ammunition. I need drones. I need a rocket launcher. Whatever the case is, are you going to put your money where your mouth is? Because we all know politicians have a lot to say. But if you really want to help him, it's what you do. And I think that he's able to weigh, I think he's able to balance that pretty well here.
Eileen Rochford [00:08:47] Yeah. Your comment, put your money where your mouth is. He came out of the gate with that stance and didn't quit. And he's firing that every single day, I think, because of that, that's why I asked so quickly, the temperature heated up and people's expectations of what the world's leaders are going to do. And that does not just mean politics, our elected officials. It also means the world's leaders, as we've talked about extensively in recent episodes. It really rests with corporations and the leadership within those, particularly Fortune 100 corporations. So the pressure and corporations quit doing business in and with Russia, even if it's temporary. As we've seen, has been the highest, at least in my lifetime. I've never witnessed anything like this. I don't know if you have.
Rob Johnson [00:09:43] It's overwhelming and it's big and it's clear,
Eileen Rochford [00:09:47] Very clear. A recent poll by Morning Consult found that 75 percent of U.S. adults support corporations stopping business dealings in Russia temporarily or permanently. And more than 76 percent of them also want companies to donate to causes that support the Ukrainian people who are suffering because of this aggression. It also found that 73 percent of companies are speaking out in support of Ukraine. And in addition to their actions, it is something that people are expecting. And there are different reasons for such high numbers, but the corporations themselves have quit doing business in Russia for the time being. There are so many of them. Let's just go through a few to give folks the picture of the magnitude of this movement. So there are marquee names like ExxonMobil, BP, Shell, Apple, Google, Meta, former Facebook, and McDonald's shipping giants like UPS and FedEx. And according to a recent Forbes article, a lot of these decisions are based upon these corporations' desires not to repeat the mistakes of guilt by association dating back to Nazi Germany, saying quote Today's corporations do not want the moral stain of the World War Two era German companies who tacitly supported the Nazis. Instead, they are stepping into the role of socially responsible corporate leaders that the modern era demands, and we've talked about that quite a bit on this show. So let's talk about that within the lens of this situation. I'm personally pleased to see it because it just feels to me, with my personal moral compass, like the right thing to do in my value system. Others have varying opinions on this but as a professional communicator, I believe that companies are more aware than ever, and we've seen this in lots of research that we've gone over in prior episodes, they're more aware than ever, of the public expectation element that impacts their brand, but they're also really aware at the highest, highest leadership level that the decisions they make are not just about how they run their business, how much money they make, who they employ, their benefits packages all the typical things anymore. And there's no dialing back on that. As they say, the train's left the station. So leadership has had to adapt, and I'm pleased that so many of these companies and more, the ranks are growing by the day. Just start recognizing that and at a minimum are doing things like looking to see if their finances are in any way connected to dealings in Russia, and they're doing that due diligence to figure it out because maybe they didn't know, right? But they're realizing, Wow, we better go find out because we need to know that we don't want to be cut either back footed on this without an answer or maybe caught unknowingly with ties to money that does originate in some way or within Russia. And we're not OK with that. So they're going to find out. Those are some of the things that I've observed. How about you, Rob?
Rob Johnson [00:13:18] I think what's really important to add to this part of The Conversation and Eileen is that Ronald Reagan, and Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. The Soviet Union crumbles and it becomes all these different countries, which is what it is today. And all of a sudden, Russia is a great place by virtue not only of its geography but a lot of other, you know, big cities and things of that nature. It's a great place to do business, and I think a lot of these companies, aside from the fact that yes, times are different and the expectations are higher for leaders to show that leadership and to take a stand on these things, I would not be surprised if some of these people up until recently didn't see the what Putin was doing here. They were thinking, OK, we're with Russia, we're doing business there. It's a part of the world where we need to have a footprint. And they did. And then all of a sudden you're going, Oh gosh, this guy is completely authoritarian. We knew he had these traits. He was predisposed to this, perhaps, but we didn't see it coming like this. And now, yes. Are we invested there? Yes, we're doing business there. We're pulling out, what are we doing? And I think some of these decisions, I would be surprised if a lot of these places, not that they were blind to it about some of these aggressions that occurred before and now we're not talking about aggression, we're talking about invasions and we're talking about atrocities and things that are just absolutely awful. But they went from maybe being a little leery, maybe being moderately leery to being, Oh my gosh, we've got to get out of here. I think this happened pretty quickly from a corporate perspective. And I know that you have intel, and I'm not saying that all of a sudden they looked in one day and said, Oh gosh, like the rest of the world did. What's this? I know that they have a better strategy than that. However, all of a sudden you're having to make these changes on a dime. We're not doing business there. You know, all of a sudden say, let me give you an example. Like McDonald's pulls out, well guess what in Russia, they're still open for business under something else. It's not using any of the protocols or any of that sort of thing, but they're able to, think about some of these planes that they had to abandon plans in Russia, and Russia's like, we're just keeping them.
Eileen Rochford [00:15:41] Ok. They're ours. Thank you!
Rob Johnson [00:15:43] Yeah. So those are some examples. But I think this happened pretty swiftly from a corporate standpoint and not only from the corporate standpoint but from the reaction they got from the world, which was getting out of there, go.
Eileen Rochford [00:15:56] You can't stand up for this!
Rob Johnson [00:15:59] There is no gray area here. This is bad. What's going on there is bad.
Eileen Rochford [00:16:03] Yeah, I really appreciate the point. You have me thinking about your point about essentially globalism, right? The expansion of globalism, which occurred in what, 30 ish years? At a rapid rate, I don't think people are necessarily and I don't mean corporations are, I just mean people, you know, people like you and me certainly aware of all of those implications of globalism, and then all of a sudden, here we are, and this happens. And it's not just about a really horrible leader of a major country in the world and how that leader is behaving. But it's also about all the finances that have become wrapped up in that country. Whoa, how does a company pivot when a situation like that arises? What's interesting to me is the timing. So we've just had and seen two-plus years of all sizes of companies Fortune 100 down to the smallest and sole proprietor businesses having to learn so fast, how do I pivot? How do I learn how to adapt? So it's almost like we're in this more nimble mindset of expectation, too, learning to be able to do the pivot and the communications that go along with the pivot and say 100 percent...
Yeah. I wonder if that had something to do with just these numbers that I was saying earlier, that it's really, really high 75 percent. And north of that is an extraordinary, overwhelming percentage of people who expect action on the issue. Right? Well, maybe that's a product of how Fast Company is delivered on pivot and change and communications in the last two years. So you have to consider the impact really of these past two years is going to be long-standing like people aren't going to dial back. It's OK. We saw that you could do it and we saw that you could act quickly. You could communicate quickly. You were more empathetic. You were all these things, said the Corp. said employer. That you hadn't been before, though maybe we wanted you to be. You proved that you could. So here we are. This new situation arises one of several massive issues that have come up and faced us all in the last two years. And the people, whether it's consumers, employees, et cetera, are speaking and saying, we want better. So I just wonder if that level of expectation might be born a little bit out of what we all went through and saw in the successful way in which even the largest of companies was able to steer the ship quickly.
Rob Johnson [00:19:18] I think there's no question and you know, I was bringing it up a second. A couple of minutes ago, Eileen, about not only corporations having to make quick decisions, but the reaction they're getting from their employees about what they need to do, which speaks to the things that we talk about all the time, which we've already referenced a couple of times here about the changing expectations of the workforce and the fact that the workforce at any company now has a voice. Before it was trickled down. It was, Hey, I'm the CEO, I'm preaching from the mountaintop, and here's what we're doing. And it trickled downhill to the rank and file workers. It's not the way it works anymore. We both know that. We both know that to be an effective CEO, you have to really have your finger on the pulse of what's going on inside your company and that things work their way. They go from the ground up now in a lot of ways. And if you're not providing that leadership, then you're getting left behind. So I think it started off with how they're communicating during COVID, which we talk a lot about. And it was, the CEO brand building its expectations of millennials who are now in positions of authority, who expect different things from the places that they work and the leaders who lead those places where they work. And now it's international affairs. Here's a bad guy from a country: Vladimir Putin absolutely committing atrocities, invading a country, causing not only a refugee crisis, obviously the loss of life destruction, the whole bit. And it's so egregious. It's so right there in front of you, you cannot ignore it. And I think that's just another iteration of what is expected of a corporate leader in this day and age. I truly believe that.
Eileen Rochford [00:21:12] Yeah, no doubt about it. It doesn't help that this is the first, we'll say, Western ish, at least in European conflicts that have played out in social media. And that's a real tough thing to deal with, too, because it's not like you're only going to hear it a couple of times a day. You're going to hear it all day, every day, and you're going to see it. It's going to be pushed to you. And all of that stuff affects people's psyches like you really can't deny that it's going to impact people who work at your company in a lot of different dimensions. Psychologically, it's kind of like the situation that they had to deal with throughout COVID to. You just can't lead in a vacuum anymore or with blinders on, like everything is connected, as they say. So witnessing this play out and social media, I think, is another dimension that we have to consider and the impact of that is great. So leaders have to not just keep their finger on the pulse, but they've got to recognize it's going to change day to day based on what's been reported based on what people are seeing. And, find that balance between tail wagging the dog and wagging the tail, as they say,
Rob Johnson [00:22:46] The pictures and you talked about them. There's no denying what's going on. I mean, you see the pictures on an hourly basis, what's going on in Ukraine and does speak louder than any words that anybody else is speaking. Listen, these are tough times again for no more important than the people of Ukraine, but also for, since we talk about communication, we talk about company leaders and things of that nature. It's never been more important for them because so many people are seeing what's going on and so many people are saying this is wrong. And, when it comes to corporate activism, things have changed perceptibly, than they might have been years ago as we were just talking about it. So companies and brands have always had to be careful about straddling the proverbial fence. Forbes is here. They've reported that CEOs are reluctant to be the public face of their organizations or engage in corporate activism. Well, now that said, they should consider the results of a new poll that found people who want the top company executives to be visible and expect them to speak out on controversial issues and topics. We've talked about it before. We've talked about being authentic to your brand. If you don't speak out on this, don't do it. If you're if this is something you typically weigh in on, then weigh in on it. But I think the rules may be a little bit different here, citing information from one of our favorite sources, the 2022 Edelman Trust Barometer, which we've referenced on this show multiple times. Eighty-one percent believe CEOs should be personally visible when discussing public policy with external stakeholders or the work their company has done to benefit society. So here's what we're doing, and here's how we're making the world a better place. They want their CEO out front and center talking about those issues. 60% said that when considering a job, they expect the CEOs to speak out publicly about controversial social and political issues that prospective employees care about. So there's overwhelming data here. 81%, that's huge. And if you got 81 percent of anything you say, OK, that's overwhelming. 60% is also a very high number as well. This data is suggesting not only what your workforce wants from you, but what they expect from you. So we've already touched on it a little bit, but I really like the trust barometer. Putting some numbers, and some data around this and talking about this really is important. This isn't just two people on this podcast, Rob and Eileen giving their opinion about something. This is backed up by data.
Eileen Rochford [00:25:29] Yeah. As I said a couple of times, though the train's left the station. There's no pretending that you can lead without recognizing the impact and implications and effects of world issues, even just national issues on your people and on the way that you do business and any CEO's public brand. It's got to be factored in and the decision has to be made, at the highest level. What issues make sense for us to talk about and what our position is at a minimum, be prepared to answer the questions when you get them. Whether it's in town hall meetings. And it may not be on the agenda, but it can very well come up. So being prepared and recognizing that even internal conversations have the possibility of being replayed outside, whether you're a private company or not. That information can get outside. So be thoughtful about it and don't stick your head in the sand and pretend, Oh, that's not going to come up here. I don't need to worry about that. You do. You not only need to be prepared with some kind of canned statement but make sure that it's thoughtful and that you've vetted it with your trusted members of your leadership team and treated it as a serious matter that it really is well ahead of a time when you might be tested through a question from internal or external sources. That's my advice.
Rob Johnson [00:27:13] And I think, too, and I brought it up a second ago. Typically, I think Eileen, you, and I as communications professionals dealing with various clients would say, don't do something that's not authentic to you, don't weigh in on something if that's not what you typically do as a company. I would say here and this is just us talking here, so I don't have, you know, 37% say this or 50%. I would say that the response has been so overwhelmingly positive toward Ukraine and negative toward Russia, then I wonder. I'd be interested to know how many companies are out there who normally don't weigh in on something, but they're facing so much internal pressure. You were just talking about how you share it internally, how that internal pressure might create somebody weighing in on something they don't normally do. The response would be authentic. The fact that they never do this may not be authentic. So I just wanted to raise that point because I think it's interesting that normally you and I would say to a company that it was just something that you normally would talk about. No, you'd probably sit this one out like you do every other one. Or if you have more of an activist sort of company that's one of your clients and they say, Well, we want to weigh in on this and you're like, Well, if that's what you do and you have weighed the pros and the cons, then you should do that. I think now there is tremendous pressure, no matter what kind of company you run in terms of, do we talk about social issues that we talk about what's going on in the world, or do we just keep our mouths shut? There is pressure to say something, even if it's not something that's in your comfort zone.
Eileen Rochford [00:28:56] Yeah. On this particular topic, it is a really interesting thing to think about. So let's pause there for a second and like, play it through. This is an international issue. It is dominating the news feeds literally everywhere. And, it doesn't have to do with an incident that happened here like any racial unrest, the murder of George Floyd, the things that came out of that was such a horrible thing. Every time I think about it, honestly. And all of those murders. So, so sad. So wrong. But for some reason, that's a lightning rod type of issue here in the United States, and we don't need to search the way behind all that now. But I'm bringing it up purely as a contrast. This situation of aggression and we're being forced on Ukraine does not seem to be a lightning rod type of issue in any of the same ways, it's almost unifying in the volume of people, and companies who are standing up to say this is wrong, this is why we feel it's wrong and more importantly, we're going to vote with our wallets here. And even if we lose planes, losing millions and millions of dollars in revenue doesn't matter to us because this is wrong and we're not going to be a part of it. It's a unifying moment. Much more so than it is a kind of lightning rod. So there's a significant contrast in the difference, but between this event and many other terrible things we've seen over the last two years even you would agree, right?
Rob Johnson [00:30:59] I agree 100 %. I brought this up earlier in the podcast talking about, we as a country can't agree on anything. And I think and I don't want to speak for everybody, but almost everybody, I think that this is a fairly unifying issue, as you just pointed out. So I think you made a really terrific point there and diving a little deeper and talking about it because we can't agree on anything. We are polarized as a society. Half the people think this way, half the people think that way. And I'm not saying there aren't some people out there that are saying, Hey, I'm pro-Russia and Putin, but you got to probably say it quieter. So you are because people are going to eviscerate you if you are because again, we see the pictures. The problem with having facts and having them work in your favor and having people kind of pass things in different ways is the pictures are so overwhelming. It's war. It's aggression, it's atrocities. And we see it. People can say, well, what you're seeing is nobody can spin this. Everything's spun so much in this country. Even January 6th and I don't want to get into that other than to say all that, what you saw, you didn't see that. It's like, Wait a minute, this is war. We all know what it looks like. We all know what's happening in Ukraine. Obviously, we're not as close to it as people that are dealing with it on the front lines every day, losing their loved ones, having to escape Ukraine, go to Poland or wherever the number of refugees and everything is just mind-numbing. But we know what we're seeing. And there's no cable outlet saying, Well, what you're saying is maybe, maybe Vladimir Putin's cable outlets are doing that, but the rest of the world, we know what we see.
Eileen Rochford [00:33:02] Yeah. Well, the flip side of that is we also know that there is the manipulation of information happening and in some cases, tragic ways. And the butts and the evildoers, the manipulation still is happening. So I just want to say, I'm just saying it because I've had a few instances come up recently where I've had some articles presented to me on this topic where, after a few minutes of scrutiny, I realized. Now, I think those photos are doctored. And no, I think not only did this come from a somewhat sketchy maybe news outlet or, not immediately recognizable. But you put those two things together and it may be again, we all operate bubbles, whether we know it or not. So I would need to take the moment and I'm taking moments all the time now to encourage everybody to think about and question things that they see because not only when it doesn't agree with their point of view, but also when it agrees with your point of view. Dig into it because the world's been manipulated every single minute of every single day and we're seeing extremism rise out of that. That's very dangerous and very scary. So just going to say yes, we can't deny it because of the volume of reporting that's happening on the ground, mainly from real people's camera phone footage. That's the stuff that you're seeing so much of, that it in the news crews, they can't be everywhere, but the people are everywhere, and what they're putting up really is scary. But at the same time, continue to be vigilant in your caution of accepting information at face value because that is something we were just talking about how it took, thirty-five years for globalism to reach this pace. While at the same time the internet was taking hold, social media was escalating. And that is still happening. The pace of manipulation of information now is even worse than it was two years ago. So try to take us off track a little bit.
Rob Johnson [00:35:32] It's taken us off track. It reaffirms things we talked about in other podcasts before, which is knowing the source where you're getting the information, is so important. And I will say this, and this is not a comment about the political leanings of any cable outlet or any network or whatever. But if you're investing the people's power in sending people to cover a war in a war zone and they are there, they are going to be reliable. And if you got somebody in their PJs, in the basements, spreading lies. Totally different, although you probably don't know they're in their PJs, in the basement spreading lies. But the point is, if you have boots on the ground in terms of reporting on an hourly basis and being able to tell all these stories, you should consider those people a little bit more reliable than some of these other chameleons.
Eileen Rochford [00:36:28] Yeah, that's a great point, Rob. I'm glad you made that and recognized that journalists are also giving their lives in this conflict and that's tragic.
Rob Johnson [00:36:43] Having been in some hot spots in the past, in my former life as a TV anchor and reporter, that's a real commitment. And I have a ton of respect and I always will. I don't care what outlet they work at. If you were there and you were ducking bombs and shootings and everything else, then you are doing the greatest public service that you can do in the business of journalism.
Eileen Rochford [00:37:11] Yeah, that's no doubt about it. 100% true. I'm grateful for all the reporting that's coming to us from new sources in Ukraine. And I think about those people a lot, just like I do all the soldiers in the poor, folks who are absolutely homeless and terrified for their lives every minute now because of what's been done. I know we wanted to talk about one more aspect of this really from a communications perspective, and that is the issue of how companies handle talking about Russia's attack on Ukraine internally with their employees. We've talked about some of the external approaches and implications and things to factor in when you're considering what is your company's position and how or if you should communicate externally? Now let's talk about how companies can talk about this internally with their employees, particularly employees who may be struggling with processing this information, according to a recent report. This one was from Zenefits. It suggests putting together internal communications kind of as needed, acknowledging this is happening, and offering safe space discussions. Used to share how they might be affected by these incidents and how they might be feeling. The report also indicated the value of offering up a list of Ukraine aid organizations. Sometimes employees might feel like they want to do something. Well, you can be really helpful as an employer and provide a list of those organizations where folks can give monetary donations or volunteer their time to help load planes that are sending humanitarian goods, things like that. Also, maybe thinking about it, is this a good time to use one of your employee poll surveys to gauge the mood of the workforce, the impact on them, and to identify the in-house support ideas that you might want to provide? This is just another moment where empathy and understanding and support are needed, particularly on the heels of everything your employees and all of us have gone through in the last two years. This isn't just an isolated single event, it's another event in a series of many that have each on their own been terribly challenging and traumatizing in different ways for people, right? So this is the snowball effect that's in play here. It's not just this war, which is bad enough in and of itself. So, seeing that for what it is, if this war had kind of come without all of the preceding incidents, maybe companies would need to be as concerned about their employee's mental health. But because it is one in a series of so many traumatizing things, I think it's particularly important to stay on top of that and not do is lip service or just once or twice. But, consistently evaluate and pay closer attention and then provide what could be helpful, and communicate how to access it. Those are additional things that companies and leadership teams can think about right now.
Rob Johnson [00:41:05] What do you think, Ron? I know that employees' mental health is of great concern to you as a company leader. You talk about it all the time and this is yet another example of being that empathetic leader, paying attention to what's going on right in front of you, understanding that people process things differently. And yes, what's happened the last two years having to deal with all of that, which was completely unique and there was no playbook for it and it was being created on the fly. And now you have this and you have people that are coming out of the pandemic and thinking, All right, whatever, whatever the future of my workflow is going to be, we're now implementing it. We're now doing it. And then you have this. Yeah, and it's yet another it's hard to process. It's hard to watch. It's hard to see those pictures. And how do people react to it on the heels of all the things they've dealt with. And so, what you're doing is you're communicating a message. You are acknowledging a shared experience that makes people feel more safe and you're also giving them an outlet. I love the idea of some people need to just have internal communications, perhaps, and other people might need to say, here are five not for profits that are donating, if not all, most of their money for Ukrainian aid to help the people that have been displaced, that have that are now refugees, they're going to have to rebuild at some point, all sorts of different places. And I want to give you one example that I loved and it was from one of my best clients that I've been working with for several years now. And I'm there so much. They're like, Well, you're kind of part of the family, even though I'm a consultant. And they said You know what? For this thing, we're doing a matching gift for Ukraine aid. And Rob, you're part of the deal. We're going to match whatever you donate, we're going to match it. It's like you're an employee, even though you're not. So it wasn't even an acknowledgment of somebody like me who's a contractor, saying, I know this is hard for everybody and you're part of something and we're going to match whatever you sow. So, my wife and I had talked about like, what are we going to do? And I started asking around like, what's a good charity to donate to? And then I knew that, and it gave me even more incentive to do it because I was like, Well, I'm going to double whatever I do, it's going to double. And it was a great incentive, and it made me feel like part of something. Even though I don't work there. I mean I work there but I'm not a full-time employee, and they're like, for this, we're just going to, consider you an employee. We're going to match whatever you donate. Just show us what it is and whether their 5013 isn't ready to go. I thought it was terrific.
Eileen Rochford [00:43:58] Yeah. You mentioned to some people the internal communication will be enough and providing kind of that safe space for conversation is something that others might need. I think sometimes those actions can serve as like release valves a little bit for people like emotionally like, Oh, OK, I'm not alone. Everybody who I work with or who I interact with every day is also seeing this communication. There may also be a feeling those release valve types of communications and activities can be really, really important and helpful.
Rob Johnson [00:44:41] Shared experience. People are sharing this experience and we process it differently. I think it's a great point.
Eileen Rochford [00:44:47] Yeah, totally. For others, even if you can't do a matching type of donation, say maybe you're a smaller company. I know of one who's doing something that I thought was so both just wonderful and creative. They found a connection to pilots who are donating their time to fly planes over with humanitarian aid, and they're organizing every two weeks. They are accepting donations of various goods, which they communicated to their customers, the people who come in and out of this business and their suppliers, their partners of the types of things that are most in need and they're storing them at their business. And then every two weeks they take a truck, they fill it with as much as they can and they get it to the plane site and help load the plane. And then they know they've literally made a tangible contribution to things that are going to help people directly and they're kind of rallying together around it.
Rob Johnson [00:45:54] That also feels like they're doing something that makes them feel like they're empowered to help. And even though it may be a small way, it's still helping. It's still pulling in the right direction.
Eileen Rochford [00:46:09] And it's a small business, less than a hundred employees, but they happen to have one person on staff who moved to Chicago from Ukraine probably 10 years ago. Her family is still there and her whole family is siblings or parents, their children, all of it. And she's hearing reports as much as they're able to communicate with her about the impact and the terrifying situation that they're all enduring in relaying that. And, she did take a little bit of leave. She couldn't handle it emotionally, and rightly so.
Rob Johnson [00:46:51] Understandable, yeah.
Eileen Rochford [00:46:52] But I just love that her colleagues decided to do something on such a large scale that's requiring not just their money, but also their time. The managing of the storing of all the materials accepting donations, the transport of it, it's pretty great. So in cases where businesses maybe don't have reserves and the ability to do financial type matches or donations, organizing something for your employees to participate in is also another terrific option. Yeah, that can be a great impact.
Rob Johnson [00:47:27] You want to feel part of doing good for people that deserve to have it done for them.
Eileen Rochford [00:47:33] Yeah, and it's a visible demonstration. Again, that expectation that customers and employees have now of brands of companies that they take some level of social activism, despite the fact that they are ( air quotes), just a company, it's real. So it's across the board that fulfills a lot of those expectations we were talking about.
Rob Johnson [00:48:03] No doubt. Great points.
Eileen Rochford [00:48:07] So I think we are coming to the conclusion of another great discussion. Hopefully, we've provided some good guidance advice provoking new thoughts and ideas that our listeners can take on with them throughout their couple of weeks till we get back together again. So that's going to do it for another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of The Harbinger Group.
Rob Johnson [00:48:35] And I'm Rob Johnson, President of Rob Johnson Communications. We thank you for listening, as always. And remember, you can listen to this podcast wherever you get your podcasts, Apple, Google, Spotify, and more. Thanks for listening.