Most everyone loves the idea of being personally and professionally successful, but do you have the desire, attention to detail, and discipline to get you there? Join us for this episode of the “Can You Hear Me?” podcast, where co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson interview Fractional CEO and Growth Strategy Advisor Mark Coscarello about “Building Frameworks for Success.”
Are you in need of a fractional CEO/Strategic Advisor to optimize the chaos and transform your business with the right People, Process, Tech, and Operations to grow sustainable revenue quickly?
fCEO/Human Capital Executive
“The magic ingredient to your secret receipt”
4 successful Tech Stack builds
Scaling start-ups to double in early rounds
Implement data analytics to drive business results
Industry exp., start-ups, CPG, sports media, life sciences
Decreased customer churn/attrition by 28%, Reduced cycle times by 41%
Are you operating at the speed of trust? As a CEO, our role at its essence is to:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/markcoscarello/
862-812-0714 – markcosc@gmail.com
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:01] Hello, everyone, and welcome to. Can you hear me? I'm Eileen Rochford. I'm the CEO of The Harbinger Group, a marketing and strategy firm. [00:00:26][25.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:00:27] and I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. Here it. Can you hear me? We're all about giving you the tools to be a successful businessperson and human being. The question is, are you doing the little things to achieve your objectives? You have the desire. Attention to detail and discipline to get there. Today, we're going to examine these issues by talking about building the frameworks for success. [00:00:48][21.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:49] And to do this, we welcome a very special guest to this episode. His name is Mark Coscarello and his resumé is vast. He is a fractional CEO and growth strategy advisor who partners with C-suite leaders to drive organizational capabilities that increase revenue, sustainability and retention. Mark, I hope my lame attempt at a brief introduction does justice to your incredible, vast experience. And welcome to Can You Hear Me?. Thanks for being with us. [00:01:18][28.7]
Mark Coscarello: [00:01:18] Thank you. Eileen, great to see you again. And Rob, great to see you again. Appreciate you having me here. [00:01:23][4.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:24] And that hat tip, big thanks to former guest Joy Mazur for introducing you to us. And we're thrilled that when our past guests are so helpful and introduce us to more great people whom we should know and our listeners would love to hear from. [00:01:39][14.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:01:40] and it Shows that at the end of the show we always say, if you have an idea, let us know that we're taking people's ideas, even your guests. [00:01:46][5.9]
Mark Coscarello: [00:01:46] Ideas. [00:01:46][0.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:01:47] Yes. And we love Joy. She's a great guest and a big fan of the show. But before we dig in here, I was thinking, how about you give us your backstory, your origin story in particular? We'd love to hear about how you got where you are today and your personal life. What propelled you to go in this direction and achieve what you've achieved? [00:02:08][21.1]
Mark Coscarello: [00:02:08] Yeah, that's a great question and I appreciate that Eileen. A lot of my purpose taps into why I love building things. And when you think about building things and how that actually falls into a sustainable framework for business and personal, there's no longer a separation of the two. So they're all melded together. And how do you do that? Like I'm a big fan of Simon Sinek and knowing why, why and understanding that track and going down it. It's been very agile across my career. I'm a lifelong student of continuous education, continuous learning, so it's constantly plugging into my why and my purpose and saying, how can I build something different or what vertical or industry can I get involved with next? The kind of broadened horizons, but bring other people along with me and understand where they're going and with a common goal and common focus, build something awesome together. [00:03:06][57.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:03:07] So kind of give us like where you, where you like, where you grew up, where you went to school, how. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I know how you got here today. You kind of already touched on that, but it's some of that, some of that little bit of background. [00:03:17][10.1]
Mark Coscarello: [00:03:17] Sure. Absolutely. Thanks, Rob. So I grew up in New Jersey, been here most of my life. Family is still here of a husband of 20 years, married. I have two kids that are awesome. A daughter, named Mia She is 14. And then I have a son who just turned 12 over the weekend. So we have one of each. We don't have a dog or any pets. We had them before. So that typical stereotypical family one, two, you know, girl, boy, boy, girl, and then a pet where we're minus that and my kids are fighting me for it. But that's a whole different conversation. [00:03:52][34.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:03:53] But I think the kids should win. Just that's. [00:03:55][2.2]
Mark Coscarello: [00:03:55] My fight. No problem. Listen, okay, so. [00:03:57][2.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:03:58] Not that it's any of my business. [00:03:59][0.7]
Mark Coscarello: [00:03:59] Here's a great back story. I mean, I actually went to school to be a veterinarian and studied biology for two semesters, and I was like, Wait a second, this is not for me. This is not for me. So I love pets. I love dogs, cats, farm animals, everything. Right? But definitely just not for me. So I said, okay, how can I go about doing something different? I'm a really linear thinker and so I have the track of going for different paths, five different paths at times, and focusing on different segments of business. So that kind of brought my path to different industries and I started my career with larger companies. Right out of college, I went to a local university here, Cain University graduated in business management. Science, took my economics classes, took all of those, loves what they did. But I was more about the practical application. I said, How can I practically apply this business knowledge that everyone mentions into our everyday lives? How do we do that? What does that look like? There's so many different verticals you can go into. So me understanding that type of a background and continuous learning, I said, okay, cool, let's go into Big Pharma. That was my big entry into corporate over here in New Jersey. I was in Big Pharma for probably 12 to 13 years along many different companies here, probably working for 4 or 5 of the pharma companies Johnson Johnson, Pfizer, Novartis, Bausch Health, to name a few. And then I switched up and went into other different verticals. I said, I've got enough of this one. It's a big enterprise. Let's shrink it down. Let's go into some CPG, maybe some sports media and then energy and delivery, and let's do some start ups along the way. Why not? Let's learn that venture also. So that's that's how I got here. [00:05:49][110.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:50] Very nice. To the jump to the next topic. I just want to say that is one of the most unusual combinations of verticals I think I've ever heard. And that's across all the clients we've ever serviced or whom I've known. That's pretty wild. I mean, people just don't do that. Yeah. So that's neat. You must have a really just diverse knowledge set from which you draw in your consulting. So but I'll stop there because I know we have other things we want to talk about first. But it was. [00:06:19][28.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:06:20] It is fascinating to hear. So let's let's start big picture here, Mark, and discuss some of the tools you think you need to be successful and engage people and professionals. You like to call this primed to perform. What does it mean? What are the vital attributes that you see? [00:06:34][14.3]
Mark Coscarello: [00:06:34] Yeah. So so primed to perform is a framework that actually I didn't start or invented two people from Google. They're husband and wife now. I can't remember their names off the top of my head, but they actually created Primed to perform and it is a framework and it long it goes along the three P's, which is purpose, potential and play. And if you institute these three keys into your model of your mission, vision, values and then have all of your core beliefs and those values and your mission pointing towards that North Star that you devise as an executive team, you will get more retention, you'll get people better productive out of this vision than this framework, and then you'll have fun while you're doing it right. So the purpose piece is I to your why. It's why is a company in existence? What are they doing? What is it? Is it a philanthropy type of thing? Is it environmental? Is it human health and overall wellbeing? And when you talk about those that that kind of feeds into a lot of companies purpose, but only if the C-suite or the CEO really as a great communicator of style, of passing that purpose down to everybody in the organization, the people get behind it and that goes along with your cadence of your townhalls or your stand up meetings or hands on decks, whatever you want to call them. Are they once a month? Are they once every six months, once a year? What does that look like? And for depending on the size of your company, you have to mention that purpose throughout in everything you have to be. It has to be vital to the people for them to get behind it. And that's a lot of people want to be included in that kind of a company. Now. They just not they're just not out there just for financial gain. That's one of the reasons they want companies that are attached to a meaning and a purpose and describe their walk with passion. So that's the first piece. The second piece is potential. And if you don't tap into your people's potential along this journey, it's really easy for them to get distracted with everything else in life that comes at them. And you're going to be bumping up against what I call the 8020 rule. You're going to get people to produce 80% of their efforts and then the other 20, you know, you want them just to focus on other things while they're at work. If you don't mention their potential and have a track and a career ladder for them, they're going to be 5050. They're going to just be going to work. They're going to be quiet quitting. They're just going to punch a clock because you give them a paycheck. There's no value. There's no purpose there. So you get caught in this vicious cycle of ROI. How do I maximize my ROI from the people, from the technology, from our operations? How do I do that? Well, it's starting with purpose and then diving into their potential and creating those career ladders for them. Right? And then the last one is play. It's fun. How do you make how do you gamify your work? How do you make it fun for people? How do you engage them with different things that keep their constant attention at work, but not just in the work sense that they're having work, but how do you create that peer to peer connectivity in a work life balance that is, my gosh, I'm having fun at work this day or this week or this year flew by and I had no idea I was actually at work doing this. I actually love what I do because there's purpose behind the meeting. I'm connected to it with the company and the drive, and then also they see my potential and they create career ladders for me and which direction I want to go with my career. And then I'm having fun while doing it. So you maximize everyone's efforts with fun and it's a great framework for success, for continuing to build sustainable revenue models for companies. [00:10:13][219.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:10:14] And how long have you been using primed to perform in your approach with the work you do with companies? [00:10:19][5.0]
Mark Coscarello: [00:10:20] It's probably been about 3 or 4 years. Interesting. So we started it back at the startup that I was with. I was with a startup called Booster. It was an energy delivery company out of the Bay Area in California. And we basically said we are growing at a crazy rate and we have to get our mission and vision values in front of people with a purpose and attach it to that purpose. How do we do that? So we said this is a great framework. This is absolutely fantastic. So we instituted the I said me and two other executives there instituted the framework of Primed to perform purpose, potential and play and mentioned it throughout every meeting we had. We use in our talent communications or management engagements and everything else, talent management, our town halls, everything. Mission Vision values was always mentioned. Perform tap into our purpose, go with it. And by doing that, we able. Go ahead, Rob. Sorry. [00:11:15][54.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:11:15] No, I was going to say, I'm glad you brought up play because people overlook that sometimes. And when you said, you know, it helps with the peer to peer connectivity and the work life balance, Eileen and I, a couple of months ago, I guess it was we did a whole thing on trying to find that work life balance. So when you bring it up and it all of a sudden connects all these different concepts and ideas that we're coming up with. I'm glad you mention that. [00:11:35][19.7]
Mark Coscarello: [00:11:35] Yeah. Yeah. No, it's really you have to have fun because it makes the time go by so much quicker. If you're not, it's not playful. It's you'll be looking out somewhere else, right? [00:11:44][9.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:11:45] Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the reasons why we start every Monday morning. Stand up with. All right, what you do this weekend, Tell us all about it. We want to hear every detail because it's just such a fun way for folks to show a little bit of themselves, but also relive the good time they just had over the weekend. [00:12:00][15.5]
Mark Coscarello: [00:12:00] Really? Yeah. And that's part of the play that some of you know, when you look at a disk profile or something else, you say have a higheye right i'm high interaction with other people. How you I'm not just so direct and so many people now with 4 or 5 different demographics of people, they're like, millennials want this Gen Zers and Xers want that. The wires want this. I'm going to be very interactive. I want to be playful. Hey, what did you do? Let's spend some time getting to know each other and understand what that look. That's the human connection, that peer to peer balance that people are actually looking for in a company. [00:12:33][32.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:12:33] For sure. And it also somehow establishes this feeling of being cared about, which is also not just about play, but, as you said, about connection. And I think that's so vital to the success of the size of any company, frankly, is they care about me. In addition to I got a good paycheck and I'm treated well. So. Right. But I wanted to ask you about one thing and the third or sorry, the second potential. So I'm really curious about that. The reason being is I always find it difficult to strike the balance and I see this a lot in other organizations and things that I just read about the balance between charting, allowing, enabling, supporting people who work for you to create their own path and of achieving their potential to the fullest. Versus I see this as your potential. Here's your professional development track. Take these courses, go get this certification. You see what I'm saying? There's it is there's such a it's a very, you know, vastly different big difference between these two approaches. What is the approach that you see today work the best? [00:13:37][63.6]
Mark Coscarello: [00:13:37] Yeah, that's another great question. A great point Eileen, the journey of life is not prescribed. It's really not it's you want roadmaps in order to get to certain places because you want to learn from mistakes and other people's faults and things like that, or even things that you've done through pilot programs to figure things out. Right. But it's not a prescribed journey. It is very fluid, it is very agile. So in that potential, you can set up something and say, Hey, let's see what you do great and triple down on those things. Let's see. This is a track that we have here. Let's really work through those. Everyone is going to have things that they struggle with that they need to work on. Those those goals that they might have that are considered weaknesses in other people's eyes or they're just small areas of opportunity for you to grow and stretch right within their. That potential is always listed, but it is fully agile. I don't believe in setting a path and going, Hey, this is your course, this is it, that every person is different. And my leadership style, that's why I love to listen a little bit more and people might take it back as not connecting or engaging. I'm sucking in all of the knowledge that I ask questions of people, Hey, what? What is your purpose? What's your potential? Where do you want to go? Where do you see yourself? How What challenges bring you joy and pleasure in doing these different things? When you when you look at two different reasons why people go along certain paths, it's they run to pleasure or they're avoiding pain. That's the decisions that we have in life. Pretty much we run the pleasure or we run from pain. So some things are very painful in life, but they're painful in work. Why is that? So painful because they're doing it alone, typically. So that's where I love to create this peer to peer connectivity. If you have someone that do it with you or a team that believes in the same things as you. It's very much collaborative. I can't have all the answers. I don't have all the strategies. I lean on a team to go and create that with me and then we execute. We do analysis and then we do strategy again, right? It's like a project lifecycle. We gain collaboration. We have the end results. We look at where we want to get the user requirements and then we say, Ooh, let's strategize, let's execute and then analyze again. What do we want to get out of this? Is this the achieving the goal that we want? So there are little sprints of 1 to 2 weeks as we go. It's a marathon. It's not a single sprint and then it's over. It's very little sprints within and then the marathon continues in the marathon. You've seen the graphs. They're up and down, right? What success looks like over here. And then the starting point, it's all over the map. It might plateau, it come down to go up as long as you keep on going and you can control your attitude and your efforts. Those are the two things that I look to control the most. My attitude and my efforts. And that's how I look at someone's potential, look at their attitude, look at their efforts. Look at what they're trying to avoid. Ask them the right questions and suck in all of that detail what they're what they're trying to accomplish and then go through it with them, talk to them about it. For many CEOs, what's your main problem? I have a million things. Let's focus on 1 or 2 things that we want to accomplish first, and then let's take those calculated risks and go and move towards execution and strategy. [00:16:56][199.1]
Eileen Rochford: [00:16:57] Nice. In particular about what you just said. I liked the suggestion. It sounded to me like you were kind of leaning toward professional development activities that are slightly more group or peer to peer, which I love hearing because that's not normally how you think of PD and it sounds way more fun to do it that way. So, all right. I'm afraid that we started actually doing a bit of much more group activity, hands on learning at our off sites and people seem to really love it. So I can see what you mean. I know. Okay, let's shift to culture because we talk about culture on our podcast point of it, because we all know how freaking important it is. So how does culture, how does cultural fit rather for an individual? How do you look for that when you're on your job search? What are some what is some advice that you can give for people to assess? Is this place right for me? Should I even pursue this opportunity after the first interview? If they ask me back, give us some of that insight, please. [00:17:55][58.1]
Mark Coscarello: [00:17:55] Yeah, I have a framework that I use that I develop, and it is a concept called TIA and it's transparency, integrity and authenticity. So that's the way I look at approaching cultural fit. If people I can be totally transparent with and have a high integrity and have that character that I can build off of from a product or service, right? Or offering a product or service. Typically when we have a business, that's just the way it is. It could be a SAS pass, whatever it is, outsourcing, we have a product or service that people are going to want to use to better themselves or better their company or to make things faster or to shorten their sales or product lifecycle. It's got to be transparent, has to be high integrity for me and then authentic. If it's authentic, they can talk about it, they can get behind it. I could sell something and develop a business about something that's really authentic and transparent because you believe in the product. So there's a lot of salespeople out there that are selling that don't believe in the product and the customers can see right through it. It's just amazing. And I'm like, Do you really believe in your product? Or you just want a paycheck every week or every other week? So that's one of the frameworks that I instituted for myself and for other people that I'm talking to is can you be transparent about it? Is it high integrity and can you be authentic about what you're offering as a product or service. [00:19:14][78.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:19:15] Let's take that a step farther because you've explained TIA here. But I also want to understand it from the standpoint of for you that was important to implement and the way that you do business. How do you get the buy in on the TIA from other people who may not be as passionate about those things? Or is that come from what we talked about earlier, which is the alignment and finding out if you have the same values and that sort of thing, how do you pass that on, You know, because you can't just teach it, Hey, we're going to go to TIA school. I mean, like this is something that's, you know, party is feels like it's part of your DNA, but maybe it's not for everybody. [00:19:44][28.7]
Mark Coscarello: [00:19:44] Yeah, well, I think a lot of what I've been experiencing, Rob, in the industry right now and even for the past 2 or 3 years, is people want to work with great teams that are pretty transparent. A lot of people are sick of the corporate culture and having to fit in. You know, you're a square peg and I got to fit myself and squash in a round hole all the time. That grows weary for people. So I say cast a wide net and find your people that believe in the same thing. As far as a why that? You do. Going back to Simon Sinek and starting with your why and going into your purpose. If you start with that, I don't think you're going to be upset with finding those people and it actually makes quicker decisions for you as what is in more alignment with who you want to work with. My my big word for 2024 has been alignment. And if I'm not in alignment with the people that I'm potentially going to work with, I need to find a different path. They're not my ICP, they're not my ideal customer profile. If they're not in alignment with how I want the framework to be set up. There's always different changes and it's an agile market, right? But how do I really set up that transparency with alignment with other people and cascade that down and say, Hey, this is a great team. Let's do some really innovative work collaboratively to knock it out of the park here for our customers, for whoever are offering our product and our service to. [00:21:11][86.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:11] Love it totally. Okay. So transparency is is the word you just used in the framework. TIA I love that there's another really important T word. [00:21:20][8.7]
Mark Coscarello: [00:21:20] Yes, there is trust. [00:21:21][0.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:22] Just trust. Trust. Another thing we love to talk about here on Can You Hear Me?. Right? Right. [00:21:26][3.9]
Mark Coscarello: [00:21:27] Absolutely. [00:21:27][0.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:28] So trust you can set the tone for your entire business. It's more about trust and its role in success from your perspective Mark. [00:21:35][6.8]
Mark Coscarello: [00:21:35] Yeah, You know, these are phrases that I have in my head Eileen all the time, and I'm a big fan of Stephen Covey. Are you operating at the speed of trust? There's one of my favorite quotes from Stephen Covey. If you're not operating at the speed that the speed of trust in your executive suite or whatever leadership style you want to implement, if you don't trust those other folks, it's not going to work out. You have to have the speed of trust. And I've been with five different start ups, few of them my own, and a few other people lead that at the executive team level. You have to set that purpose and that potential out as a what your customers are looking for. But you have to trust that inner circle that you're building something out with, that a startup or else it's not going to work. You have to be transparent, but you also have to trust the other folks. And that's some hard conversations. Sometimes in the onset of startup, there really are some bumps in the road. You have to clearly delineate what those are, what roles, what models, what you want to use, what your beliefs are and what you want to attain for your aspiration. So when I set up a lot of risk analysis, SWOT analysis and then SOAR analysis, a lot of people say, What's a SOAR analysis? And I said, Well, those are your strengths, those are your opportunities, those are your aspirations. And what results do you want to see out of those aspirations? So it's just not a SWOT analysis, a gap analysis or going into organizational design and effectiveness. It's actually leading from the C-suite and the CEO or the board members. What are your aspirations? What do you guys want out of this company? It's a product. It's a service. What are we offering? But what do we want out of it in return? What are we trying to do? And if there's not alignment in that trust factor of what you're trying to accomplish, you really need to get alignment and say, okay, this is what our product and software and our offering is. This is the track we want to go down and just have those hard conversations. I said earlier, you either run to pleasure or you avoid pain. And this is where the rubber meets the road and some of these start ups and every other cultural environment that it's painful some of these conversations. But at the end of the day, you'll find out that your aspirations are very similar. You want to build that peer to peer network, you want to start a great startup that is a great product or service that makes a lot of money. It scales from zero to 50 or 100 million in a few years. How are you going to do that? You have to trust the people on your team. [00:24:02][146.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:24:03] And to establish trust. Psychological safety is essential, which can be difficult in a yeah, in the startup culture. How do you advise teams in the establishment of psychological safety? [00:24:16][13.3]
Mark Coscarello: [00:24:16] Yeah, that's a good question too. And that's over communication. It's through communication and collaboration. I wind up doing some assessments with people, right? I'm a big fan of predictive Index culture index and some of the other different pools. There's a lot of learnings in running some of those programs and putting some different color around what that looks like. So what does draw some people to psychological safety and how does that work? In a company, especially in a startup, you have to be transparent about it. You have to be authentic and you have to uphold your integrity. And that will really start that framework down to move forward. And then if you're not in alignment, you will know really quickly. And in startups, you have to be agile, you start quick and you stop quick, fast, and then you move and you pivot and you go a different direction and gain buy in game trust along the way. It's not just work, but it's also having fun at work. Talking about to your point earlier, Hey, what did you do over the weekend? I want to know who you are. What takes time away from the regular day that Eileen is focused on. Right. What what does Rob have as some of the other things he does on the weekends that he enjoys? What are his aspirations? So it's really interesting. So I met someone on my team in 2021 and 2022. She loved painting. She was on my team as a recruiter and in our business partner. And I said, Do you love painting? I found out that one of her paintings was actually in an art gallery that was on display in Greece, and she went on vacation. She went to Greece and I was like, That is an awesome journey. I would have never known that if we didn't dive into our one on ones and give space and time to have a platform for her to share those things in our team calls. Hey, what you do? I went to an art gallery thing and, you know, my art was on exhibit and then I got asked to go to Greece and my art, I'm like, That is awesome. Think about that, right? That's a whole nother person that I didn't know that aspect of her at all. So you give the time and the space and create the platform. People will speak up. I love that. [00:26:20][124.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:21] Snowshoe SWOT analysis to SOAR analysis. That's something new I learned today. And you said something about over communication, which I know is music to my ears and Eileen's ears because I'm always trying to get clients to overcommunicate. Don't don't make them sit there and try to figure out what you're trying to convey to them. Just say it. And there's no and there's no I don't think there's such thing as over communication. So the fact you just drove that point home, I'm really happy to hear that. So there's some you brought up so many amazing points today, Marc. But as we wrap things up here, what is one bit of advice you want to leave our listeners with? You've already given such great advice. [00:26:58][37.5]
Mark Coscarello: [00:26:59] Yeah, I would say I would say that starting with why, if you don't know what your why is. Find something that you are passionate about and figure out how you can incorporate it into your daily life, but also into your work life and then find that balance between the two. And it is very dynamic. It is not static at all, is not linear. I'm a very much non-linear thinker as a default, but go into those dynamic places and figure out what that purpose is for you and lead with your why. Start with your why and then go from there and then draw alignment with other companies and other things other people in your life and go down that journey. Life is a journey in work and in personal. So keep on doing that journey. [00:27:44][45.7]
Rob Johnson: [00:27:45] That's absolutely brilliant. Mark, Mark Coscarello, we thank you so much for joining us on Can You Hear Me Today? We appreciate your time and your ideas. Thanks for being here, man. [00:27:54][8.1]
Mark Coscarello: [00:27:54] Thanks, Rob. Appreciate you guys having me. Thanks a lot. [00:27:56][2.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:27:56] Thank you, Mark. Well, I guess, guys, that's going to do it for another edition of the Can You Hear Me? Podcast. I'm Eileen Rochford. If our listeners would like to weigh in on this episode or give us an idea for a future show topic, you guys can find us on our LinkedIn page. The Can You Hear Me page on LinkedIn and drop us a note there. We'd love to hear from you. [00:28:17][20.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:28:17] That's right. Remember, somebody gave us an idea to get Mark on and here he is. We're paying attention. That's that's the bottom line, no doubt. My name's Rob Johnson. We thank you all for listening. If you'd like the show, please consider giving us a review on any of the platforms where you can find. Can you hear me? Apple, Spotify and more. Your reviews help other potential listeners fight our show. Thanks. [00:28:17][0.0]
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