Election 2024 was one of the most emotionally-charged, unusual elections of our time. With the voting now complete, we want to take a look behind the curtain with Rob Hart, Anchor at WBBM Newsradio 780. Join “Can You Hear Me?” co-hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford as they discuss what it was like to cover one such a unique election, and the challenges of being fair and impartial at a such a politically polarizing time.
Meet Our Guest
Rob Hart, a Chicago native with over 20 years of experience on some of the great radio stations in the Midwest. His radio career started in 2000 at WTMJ Radio in Milwaukee. Since then he has worked at WGN Radio in Chicago, the former WIQI-FM, and 97.9 The Loop. He was also the host of “The Daily Dish” and a Martin Luther King Jr documentary for CBS News Radio.
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:18] Hello, everyone, and welcome to a very, very special edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of The Harbinger Group, a marketing strategy firm, as you guys know [00:00:27][9.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:00:29] And I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. With the historic 2024 election now in our rearview mirror. We want to take a moment and hear from someone covering it up close from the newsroom of Wbbm Newsradio 780 Anchor Rob Hart. Rob has been kind enough to join us on Can You Hear Me to share his journalistic thoughts and insights? Rob, welcome back. We were lucky enough to have you on in early 2024. Thanks for joining us again. [00:00:53][24.2]
Rob Hart: [00:00:54] Well, thank you for having me. [00:00:55][1.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:00:55] I'm so pleased that you're here, because all night long on election night, I could I couldn't stop thinking about you and wondering, you know, what's he thinking? What's he feeling? What do you experiencing? Mostly what I'd love to hear you talk about out of the gate today is what was different about the 2024 Election Day coverage and how you prepared for that coverage and how it kind of panned out because there was a lot rolling on this. Right. And the whole country was curious. And there are some supercharged things going on in Illinois. It was a little different. [00:01:29][33.5]
Rob Hart: [00:01:29] Yeah, it was. I mentioned when our show ended at 11:00 on Tuesday night, I thought this was probably the smoothest election show that I have handled. And this is going back to the 2022 primary in June of that year, because normally you have a number of races going on. You have a producer screaming in your ear, telling you, go to this speech, go to that speech, dump out, go to this reporter, go to that reporter, because normally there are like 6 or 7 races on the board that you're usually following. But on Tuesday night, at least for us, it was the Cook County State's attorney's race and the the ten elected school board positions which were telling a story about what the taxpayers of Chicago thought about the Chicago Teachers Union backed candidates. And it was probably also an approval election on Mayor Brandon Johnson. But outside of that, I mean, I think, you know, I was with Craig Delmore, our political editor, and, of course, the legendary Mike Flannery, and they had very good insights and what was happening as the national vote was unfolding. But primarily from a local race standpoint, the election 2024 was a pretty quiet. [00:02:44][75.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:02:45] Is that what you're saying? [00:02:46][0.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:02:46] You were mixing? So you're mixing national and local with with Mike and Craig, correct? [00:02:51][4.7]
Rob Hart: [00:02:51] Right. Because I think if you want the full national scene, if you want people, you know, jumping up and down in front of the video boards, colored red and blue, then that's that's what TV is for. And we went to the network. We had CBS updates three times an hour plus the top of the hour newscast. So that part of the program was taken care of by our national partners at CBS News Radio. But when we had a lot of phone ins, too, we had insight and analysis. We had the Chicago Board of Elections is talking about the overall turnout. We had people on both sides of the school board issue. And to be honest, I think the best phone call we had in terms of a guest providing, you know, really smart insight on the presidential race as it was unfolding, as it really looked like the ball was bouncing into Donald Trump's court was from Luis Gutierrez, the former Illinois congressman who was it just finished up a door knocking shift for Kamala Harris in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. And it was becoming pretty obvious that the story of the election was the Hispanic vote and the Latino vote moving in Trump's direction by pretty substantial margins. And he had some very good insights on what was going on there. So I think we not only covered what was happening locally very well, but we had some pretty good insights early on as to what was moving the presidential vote. [00:04:17][85.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:04:18] And it's good to have that, too. [00:04:19][1.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:04:20] Absolutely. I'm curious, did anything that Luis Gutierrez said during that interview surprised you? [00:04:25][5.8]
Rob Hart: [00:04:26] Yeah, I think the one thing that really jumped out at me was just talking about how immigration and immigration enforcement is a very complex issue inside the Latino community. And it's not necessarily cut and dry and that you have different generations of immigrants who feel differently about those who are coming in compared to two to more recent arrivals. And he was saying that even when he was in Congress, when when even when Democrats had the majority in the first two years of the Obama administration, he was part of a group of Latino lawmakers who were trying to get Democrats to look at the immigration issue in a much different way. And so he felt that he had he had watched this unfold and realized it could be a potent issue that could be eventually used against him. [00:05:15][49.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:05:16] It's very intense. [00:05:16][0.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:05:17] That's fascinating. You just brought up one of my favorite guys, Mike Flannery. We worked together for years at CBS and covered many election nights together. And I would just be fascinated to watch him break down some of the nuances of the election. And for me, having done that, Rob, much like you, every Election Day, election night, I always felt like it was the Super Bowl because that was a day that people who may or may not have cared about the news on a regular basis were tuning out in large numbers because they cared because it was a big moment for the country or for the state, whatever the case may be. Do you still feel that energy and electricity in the newsroom on election night, knowing that you have basically a front row seat to history? [00:05:56][39.3]
Rob Hart: [00:05:57] Absolutely. I mean, I thought on Tuesday my day began that I had to be at the radio station maybe at 430 in the afternoon. And I thought, okay, I'm going to sleep in because this is going to be a long night. And no, I was up at 515. I was I was excited. And and this is what people tune in for. And you talk about how this is a Super Bowl. I mean, traditionally through broadcasting throughout the history of broadcast news, like going back to the dawn of television, it was political coverage that determined which network would be the ratings champion. I mean, even going back to 1956, Chet Huntley and David Brinkley, where did such a good job of covering that, that year's political conventions that, you know, NBC News was in the driver's seat for a decade until, of course, Walter Cronkite became a flag waving fan of NASCAR on the space program. But it just goes to show you what a big deal that political coverage is, whether it's four networks, local television stations or local radio. People are tuning in and they want to know what's going on. And in this election, just like the last three in which Donald Trump was on the ballot, people had very strong opinions for or against. They were wondering, was this going to be the end of MAGA or was this going to be a restoration? And with with so many people tuning in, with so many people listening and with so many people with with strong feelings, I felt it was our job to give them the information and provide insights that you may not get anywhere else. And you talked about working with Mike Flannery. Now here's a guy who retired. He walked away last year and even even now he's on the phone. He's calling his sources. He's getting numbers. He was he was a machine. I mean, there's there are some analysts who just draw on their well of knowledge and what they you know, what they just know about how electorates evolve over time. But here he was working the phones during the commercial breaks, getting the latest information. [00:07:55][117.6]
Rob Johnson: [00:07:56] Very, very quickly, if I could just add to that. You were talking about Mike. Whenever we would have an election night, we'd have to do like a cut in per hour, you know, So we'd have to do like a 4 or 5 minute cut in and the other like 40, the other like 50 minutes, 55 minutes. I was up in the control room and we had all these numbers available to us. And he and his at the time, his political producer, Ed Marshall, would be crunching them. And this is why this is important. This is why that's important. I learned so much just from being around that all night long. So anyway, I just wanted to finish that thought. [00:08:24][28.4]
Rob Hart: [00:08:25] Yeah, it's just fun. It's just fun watching the whole process come together. I mean, you may not like the result or you may love the result, but just being in the middle of this as the story is unfolding and there's a new precinct and the numbers have changed. And if the numbers change in an appreciable way, the storyline changes. I mean, that's that's that's what makes Election night such an exciting part of the news calendar for sure. [00:08:47][22.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:08:48] And for your reporting that you're referencing for some of our listeners may not have any idea, where do you guys get that information? [00:08:54][6.5]
Rob Hart: [00:08:55] We have we have in terms of like when where numbers are coming in, because we have we have we have the Associated Press, like there is a since where an AP client, you know, their numbers are being fed into our website. So we're basically updating along with them. But you have other sources. We go with The New York Times. Their account may be different. The Decision Desk is another website that we really rely on. So a number of different entities are counting are posting results at different times. And early on in the night before we went on because the polls closed at 5:00 and some place I was looking at the Politico map of Indiana because an early indicator of how things were going to go was Hamilton County, Indiana, which was a suburban Indianapolis county that had been trending in the Democrats direction over the past three cycles. And then that trend stopped in its tracks. It stopped at where it was in 2020. And then you start to get an inkling that maybe this is not going to be Kamala Harris. [00:09:58][62.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:09:58] Yeah, I think four trends would be like a politico for sure. And when it came to like raw numbers, I know it's like the Associated Press was sort of the gold standard for that. So you have the combination of those. [00:10:07][9.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:10:08] So what what may you have done this year differently to kind of get ready for this day? It was anything different at all. [00:10:16][7.2]
Rob Hart: [00:10:16] I. I usually prepare the same way. I have a Google doc and I just kind of rundown all the races. And because I'm just the host, I'm here to ask the questions of of dilemma or of the analysts or of the reporters who are on the scene. It's just rundown each race rundown the storylines and potential areas that we can explore. It's not up to me to it's not like I'm giving an oral presentation in front of the rest of the listening area. It's just me to basically my job is to lob the ball at whoever is in the studio, whoever is in the field, and they're the ones that take the swing and hit it. So yeah, and in my case, I had a pretty long Google doc, not only just the presidential race, and keep in mind the discussion before the results came in and in an appreciation in a really sort of flooding in was talking about how we got there. So there was a long thing about the debate in June, what Illinois lawmakers called on Biden to drop out the virtual roll call for Kamala Harris at the beginning of August, the Democratic National Convention, the Republican convention, you know, the state of the campaign leading up to election night. And then we had questions about the Cook County State's attorney's race, questions about the school board races. Indiana was looking kind of interesting leading up to Election Day. Both the Republican and Democratic Governors Associations had put some late money in because they thought that race was close. And it and then it got called for Mike Ryan before I got on the air. So you can see that's that part of the Google the Google doc out. [00:11:58][101.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:11:58] So let me ask you that. You were talking about kind of on the air and the preparation and that sort of thing. So but as an impartial journalist, and I understand there's not as many of you as there used to be, what do you want your listeners and the listeners of this podcast to know about how you prepare your talk about the Google Doc A little bit, But you know, this isn't you don't go on the air when you're on the air. Yes, you're teeing it up for your experts. You're not giving your opinion, but you're letting them give the analysis. But what goes on in the preparation part that allows you to make it look so easy and to tee up those people to be at their best? [00:12:31][33.1]
Rob Hart: [00:12:32] I think it's, you know, who they are. Like, I've worked with Craig a bunch of times. I've worked with Mike a bunch of times, so I know what they like to talk about. And so I will tailor the commentary or the questions so they can really knock it out of the park. And I, I've, you know, I used to work in talk radio. I did a couple of a couple of laps in the host chair at Wells, and I was a host at GM and Radio way back when, same thing at WTMJ in Milwaukee. So there have been times when I have delivered my opinion as part of programing, but they're paying me for that. And Wbbm is not paying me to tell you what I think about the world. And the audience doesn't expect that from the radio station. So I am hemmed in. I follow the guardrails like this is what people want out of us. If they want to talk radio, they would get talk radio. And there are a number of places where you can find that on the dial in Chicago and elsewhere. So my thing is, stick to the thing we're good at the thing that people like, and that is just telling you what's going on and providing a little bit of analysis that will flesh out brand, but also not really. You know, there was no on air morning or on air celebrating. And quite honestly, there was no off air morning or off air celebrating, I think when 11:00 rolled around on election night and it was obvious that Donald Trump was going to win. Everyone's like, all right, you got to be back. I'm going to be back at 9:00 tomorrow morning. I think that was the overriding thought was, you know, get as much sleep as you can and come back. [00:14:02][90.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:14:03] Yeah, that's interesting because this was just built up. So it was almost like a pressure cooker environment of, you know, maybe 100 days since, you know, the real opponent, Kamala Harris, declared. So it was a very, very intense period of time, you know, those 100 days. And then to have it be just this. Okay, everybody, great job. [00:14:23][20.0]
Rob Hart: [00:14:25] They've all been like that. I mean, the one I really I covered 2000. I was a sophomore at Marquette when 2000 unfolded. So my coverage of that campaign began when when Al Gore was running in the primary that year, he made an appearance at the Alumni Memorial Union at Marquette. And that was the beginning of my political campaign coverage. I think I also interviewed Pat Buchanan that year. But the one that I the first one, the first big one was four. And that was, you know, you had a Democratic primary, which was at Marquette and. Right, you'll love this story. So Channel four and MSNBC were the sponsors of that Democratic primary debate at at Marquette and might actually stop that told the story where the moderator was Lester Holt and I was just shaking to meet him because of course he was Channel Two's Lester Holt. I mean, he was. Rael and I tentatively approached Mr. Holt. It's so nice to see you. And he said, by the way, my my son is in high school. He's tagging along to see what this is like. And of course, that's. That's Stefan now. [00:15:28][63.0]
Rob Johnson: [00:15:29] Yeah. Yeah. [00:15:29][0.2]
Rob Hart: [00:15:29] So we were we were like, remember going out there? And one of my former colleagues at WTMJ Radio, John Belmont, he had worked at the at the ABC Radio network. And so he came out there as well and he had a shotgun microphone for talking to protesters like people right side with like the old fashioned Roone Arledge, like ABC News label. I thought like, man, this is cool. This is big time. And so I went there and I went to the John Kerry appearances across Wisconsin and President Bush appearances across Wisconsin. And again, that same level of intensity you saw that this summer and and this whole idea of if if if one guy wins or one person wins, it's the end of America as we know it. And then there's election and then it's over. It's like, well, now what? I devoted the entire summer and fall to this one thing, and now this one thing is over. [00:16:22][52.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:16:22] Yeah, those stories are awesome. Because again, when I said you get a front row seat to history, that's really the truth. And I never took it for granted. And I know you don't. [00:16:30][8.0]
Rob Hart: [00:16:30] Either know it and they're they're cool. I mean, I was in Grant Park in eight for Obama's election night. And there's that. There's a picture from behind the stage airborne picture of Barack and Michelle walking out and Joe and Jill Biden walking out. And of course, skylines in the background. A beautiful evening. And it's in my daughter's history book at school. And I will point out, I'll say, look, you see that big white tent, 17 rows in the back behind multiple risers of like every TV affiliate in the Midwest was was the the benches for radio. And I was I was next to the ABC news producer and and my future running mate Craig Delmore was a couple of seats over and that was our vantage point for election night eight. [00:17:18][47.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:17:18] And you know, I was talking about never taking it for granted. You brought up a 2004. I remember being in Tallahassee watching people can't count hanging chads in 2000. And then, yeah, you know, it was in Boston, Kerry and Edwards. And they didn't concede that night. But the next morning they're at Faneuil Hall. And it was like a funeral. And it was like, we can see the election, you know, this and that. But but those moments are things I will never forget. And so I know that having had those moments, I'm grateful for them. And I know as you continue your career, that's something that you're grateful for as well. [00:17:48][30.6]
Rob Hart: [00:17:49] Speaking of 2000, it's funny, all those counties I've had like Volusia County burned in my hand thanks to the 2000 recount. I could tell you all just weird towns where they were having some sort of canvasing issue. And that's 24 years ago. [00:18:05][16.4]
Rob Johnson: [00:18:05] And I still remember it like it was yesterday because they were just such amazing big moments, you know, in my old career. [00:18:12][7.0]
Rob Hart: [00:18:13] And now that we have kids who were, you know, who are working on Newsroom, who are born in 2000 like that. Right. But 2000 election might as well be like the Kennedy election. It's just. Yeah, right. How old it is. Which is kind of hard to believe. [00:18:26][13.4]
Eileen Rochford: [00:18:27] Yeah. Yeah. It's somebody I still have. Well, I don't think I could do it now, but there was a time not too long ago and I could name every county in the state of Wisconsin from having worked as the election coordinator for the Associated Press, and that that was the time when the the way that we got numbers was the reporting out from the League of Women Voters. They would call in and tell us, this is our top. [00:18:49][22.1]
Rob Hart: [00:18:50] Back of the day. We had somebody at the board of Elections, like with a hard telephone line calling in numbers for the radio station. I mean, you could do a whole show on just ancient technology and how. [00:19:01][11.3]
Rob Johnson: [00:19:02] And they still got the job done somehow. Yeah. [00:19:04][2.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:04] Yeah, yeah. And it was pretty accurate. Yeah. [00:19:07][2.7]
Rob Hart: [00:19:08] Long before the days of the magical device in your pocket, giving you all the information in the world. [00:19:13][4.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:19:13] Totally. Yeah. I think that's part of the instant access to information and the way that this played out in Election Day 2024. That's partially why it was such a like a big nothing burger. You know, it's just you get it in and you're done. There's no waiting. There's no, you know, curiosity the next morning, like, what did I miss? Yeah, it's it's a whole different ballgame. I think the drama now is just in the campaign and certainly not so much on Election Day. [00:19:41][28.1]
Rob Hart: [00:19:42] I just think it's funny how this whole notion of red states and blue states has become this this divide that some people say is impossible to bridge because the origin of red states and blue states was, I think the president of NBC News in 1976 said, what can we do to jazz up our election coverage? Because up until now, it's just been men standing in front of a bank of numbers and they would just keep turning over and over and over. And someone said, well, how about we get a big light up map? And when a state goes for a particular candidate, we're going to light the map. Up. And at the time the original color scheme was Republicans were in blue and Democrats were in red because that was the British color scheme. The Conservatives were blue and labor was red. And I think ABC flipped it around in 1980 because red states and red and Republican began with R. That's the only reason why they're called red states. And it and then I think you get the 2000 and because there was no resolution for a month you would have people just staring at this red and blue map thinking and start wondering like what's the difference between the red states and the blue states? And it's just hilarious that there's this notion that America has this divide that's impossible to heal. It is based entirely upon one TV production designer's idea nearly 50 years ago. [00:21:04][82.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:05] Yeah, And of course you would know that. And I got a history. I just shared that with us. That's so. [00:21:09][4.4]
Rob Hart: [00:21:09] Awesome. I think the guy's name was Gordon something or other, but he worked for NBC and he had these memos called Gordon Graham's and the Red and Blue State was a Gordon Graham. And so if you're thinking about a national divorce based on red states and blue states, just remember the Gordon Graham and remember, we're one country. [00:21:27][17.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:21:28] What a history lesson. [00:21:29][0.7]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:29] That is Very good. And I like to underscore, they remember we are one country. That's a great. [00:21:34][4.6]
Rob Hart: [00:21:34] Yes, we. [00:21:34][0.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:21:35] Are great message. [00:21:35][0.4]
Rob Hart: [00:21:36] Even, you know, when it's all said and done, they're still counting votes in in California. So I think, you know, Donald Trump's got a win, but maybe by a percentage point, give or take. The pollster said going into last Tuesday, this was a jump ball. And I think a lot of people thought maybe the they're just, you know, hedging on the side of a tie because they don't want to be wrong. It's like, no, it was a tie. But they also said if if the margin shifted 1 or 2 points in either direction, it would make a meaningful difference. And that's exactly what happened. It was a jump ball. And and the Trump campaign got it, though. They were watching all the recriminations. And what do we do next? And it's interesting. This also reminds me of 2004, which is, you know, how how could Democrats have have lost the rest of the country and this demographic moved away from that demographic, moved away from them. And it's like, well, I'll tell you what really happened. In 2004, there was a guy named Barack Obama who just happened to be the coolest guy in the room, and he was the Democratic nominee in eight. And all those problems were solved. So really, if Transparent a messaging podcast really is the messenger, it really and honestly, based on some of the stories that are coming out about how of the of a deficit Joe Biden was in the fact that Kamala Harris close that gap and forced it up to a tie in 100 days is really impressive, though, when I think when when the history of this campaign is written, I think she and Tim Walz will come out looking pretty because they did a remarkable job in a very sort of. [00:23:06][90.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:23:06] Interesting perspective for. [00:23:07][1.0]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:07] Sure. A never before been done in history. [00:23:09][1.8]
Rob Hart: [00:23:10] Now you're. [00:23:10][0.2]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:10] Really amazing. [00:23:10][0.2]
Rob Hart: [00:23:11] You also wonder if you're going to see more of that coming going forward if you have a candidate who maybe won the primary. But they're really they're really having a hard time gaining traction if in the general if more people are going to be more empowered to come out and say, look, we got to swap you out for a for a newer a better model. [00:23:29][17.8]
Eileen Rochford: [00:23:29] Yeah, yeah. I agree with deals with a lot of things, old ways of doing things. I should say. We're kind of upended in this election or in this campaign and it opens the doors to a lot more of that happening. And even two years from now, when we have so many House seats up for grabs. And I honestly believe that there's just a lot of legacy ways of communicating in campaigns that are irrelevant, that campaigns just have to come to grips with and change pretty fast, you know, to keep up with how people receive information today and how they think. So things have been shifting, but it feels like now to be kind of warp speed. There's just a lot in play that the way things were done in the past, that has no impact. And that was evident even though for sure. [00:24:20][50.7]
Rob Hart: [00:24:21] I think the lessons we're going to take out of this election, starting with, you know, things that never happened before, we're not even having this conversation about Kamala Harris. If Donald Trump didn't agree to debate Joe Biden at the end of that debate not occurred, there would have been a Joe Biden convention in Chicago. You would have had a whole summer of Joe Biden campaigning. And maybe that that the bad debate happens at the end of September or in October. But because it happened in late June, it gave the Democratic Party time to persuade him to leave and swap in his vice president. And the larger conversation that I think above and beyond politics is how do you reach people? And I think we've learned that podcast and social media, that is the number one way of reaching people in in this day and age. I mean, I love I would love for it to be like it was in 1979 where. 17% of the audience is listening to Wiley Phillips in the morning, and the rest is getting their news from John Holtmann and Dale McCarron. But that's not the case anymore. And even the whole idea of the clock doesn't really matter when everything is on demand. And that's that's for news. That's for marketing, that's for public relations. That's for everybody to grapple 100%. [00:25:36][75.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:25:38] And if the podcast of the future. I hope you're I hope you're right. Don't island. I hope you're right. [00:25:42][4.7]
Rob Hart: [00:25:43] We will move mountains with this podcast today. [00:25:45][2.6]
Eileen Rochford: [00:25:47] Yes, we will. [00:25:47][0.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:25:48] Yes, we. [00:25:48][0.3]
Eileen Rochford: [00:25:48] Will. We will certainly inform and entertain. That's what we will do. And I just want to say thanks for being a repeat guests and coming back on and sharing your experience and wisdom and stories. [00:25:59][10.8]
Rob Johnson: [00:25:59] So good history lesson, man. Every time we're with you. History lesson. [00:26:03][3.3]
Rob Hart: [00:26:03] I appreciate the opportunity. This is my first time I could talk about the election with someone other than my wife. And I'm sure she's probably tired of hearing me talk about this stuff so. [00:26:14][10.9]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:15] We can cross her off the list of listeners of this podcast that she will not. [00:26:19][4.0]
Rob Hart: [00:26:19] To Gordon Graham's. Yes, I get it. And you put it the Christmas lights, please. [00:26:21][2.5]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:24] Well, it's always very insightful. We appreciate you taking your time. We know this is a very busy time for you, but we are eternally grateful, as always. [00:26:30][6.7]
Rob Hart: [00:26:31] All right. Well, thank you so much. [00:26:32][0.9]
Rob Johnson: [00:26:32] You bet. And that's going to do it for another edition of Can You Hear Me? I'm Rob Johnson. If you want to comment on the podcast, this one or others or suggest a topic, please contact us at our Can You Hear Me podcast page, which you can find on LinkedIn. [00:26:45][12.5]
Eileen Rochford: [00:26:45] And I'm Eileen Rochford. Please, if you liked this show, consider giving us a review on any of the platforms where you find Can You Hear Me? like Apple, Spotify or any of those wonderful places, because your reviews of our show will help other listeners find us. And we love bringing more folks into the fold. And remember that you're the people we produce the show for and me. You learn something today. Take care, everybody. [00:26:45][0.0]
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