When the realities of the post-pandemic workplace became realities-remote work, hybrid work, employees dictating terms, it seemed to signal a new era in employer/employee relations. But with a recession causing jobs to shrink at many companies, has the leverage shifted back to the bosses? Join co-hosts Rob Johnson and Eileen Rochford for Episode 33 of “Can You Hear Me?” as they welcome special guest Shay Lovett of the HR firm Insperity to discuss the idea “Are Employees Still Calling the Shots?”
Shay Lovett, Recruiting Consultant
Insperity
Recruiting Services
Shay is currently a recruiting consultant with Insperity, a PEO (professional employer organization) that provides human resource and administrative services to small- and medium-sized business. She has 25 years of human resources experience with a primary focus on talent acquisition and recruiting. In her current role, she works directly with hundreds of clients to understand their recruiting needs and challenges to develop a solid recruitment strategy.
Shay leverages her knowledge of various recruiting strategies, interview techniques, and economic markets to help identify top talent for her clients. She is a Certified Internet Recruiter, has partnered with the University of Houston’s C.T. Bauer College of Business on numerous interviewing and resume writing workshops, and has sat on numerous panel discussions. Recruiting is definitely her passion.
Prior to joining Insperity, Shay spent 18 years in human resources with JPMorgan Chase in various generalist and leadership roles. She holds a bachelor’s degree in psychology from the University of Houston and is located in Insperity’s corporate headquarters in Kingwood, Texas.
Insperity isn’t just HR outsourcing, it’s HR that makes a difference.TM Our comprehensive, scalable HR solutions offer an optimal blend of service and technology to facilitate growth by streamlining processes related to payroll, benefits, talent management and HR compliance. We provide the tools to help you lighten your administrative load, maximize productivity and manage risks – so you can focus on growth. Learn more at Insperity.com.
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Eileen Rochford [00:02:37] Hello everyone and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me? Podcast. I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm The Harbinger Group.
Rob Johnson [00:02:47] And I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. You know, on this podcast, we like to discuss issues related to communications and more recently, the give and take between employers and employees.
Eileen Rochford [00:03:00] We're totally fascinated by how the pandemic shifted this power dynamic solely. It feels like over to the employee. So the great resignation, quiet quitting and workers telling their managers they'd rather quit, then come back to their offices full time. So this felt pretty bold and territory we hadn't really charted before, right? But as the world came out of COVID, many of the office norms had definitely shifted. However, now our markets are tightening. Are employers are still able to impose their will on employees?
Rob Johnson [00:03:34] Yeah, this is really interesting because as you know, we have gone there on several occasions with these topics, and it's seemed for the last year, year and a half, that it's definitely tilted in the employee's favor. But now with the recession, what are the realities here? So we're fascinated by it, and that's why we're making it episode 33 of our podcast. Her job is to talk about this very topic is somebody who knows a lot about it. Her name is Shay Lovett. She is a recruiting consultant for Insperity. And Insperity is a leader in providing outsourced HR solutions for companies. And given this issue, the perfect guest for us. Shay, thanks for joining us. We're so glad you're with us.
Shay Lovett [00:04:18] Thank you so much for having. Eileen. I appreciate the time that you have given me to kind of spotlight this information.
Rob Johnson [00:04:27] Well, Shay, before we get into some of the topics that we know people want to hear about, why don't you tell us a little bit about what it means for Insperity to be an outsourced HR solution and how your role as a recruiting consultant there ties into that. So basically, just give us kind of your background and what you do and and how Insperity does this sort of work?
Shay Lovett [00:04:49] Yeah, absolutely. So here Insperity, we work with those small to medium sized businesses just to provide them with various HR services and support. So we have various solutions that we can offer our clients based off of their HR needs. It could be anything from, you know, technology systems just to HR resource guidance and just that general support. And in my specific area, I do focus on the recruiting aspect. So specifically, I partner with our clients to get a good understanding of their recruiting needs and just any challenges that they may be having with filling their role. So we really will partner together to create a really good, solid recruiting strategy. And so that means taking a look at their open position, comparing that against the current market and the available talent that's out there. We'll also take a look at their salary as well. And then again, like I said, we'll, you know, come together and formulate a plan of action just to help them identify that top talent so they can be able to fill their role.
Eileen Rochford [00:06:05] Terrific. I have one follow up question, if I may, before we dive in here. I'm just curious, Shay, do you tend to specialize at all in any kind of industry sector or size of company or anything like that? Just genuine curiosity.
Shay Lovett [00:06:21] No, we don't specialize in any particular industry. We work with all types of companies. Again, like I said, it's more on the small to medium side. So it would be those companies that don't necessarily either have an HR department or they may have just a skeleton crew. So they will come to us and like I said, we partner with them on whatever specific needs that they may have. But we are not specialists in any particular industry. You know, our main focuses are going to be, you know, accounting, finance, sales, marketing, professional positions, I.T.. So really just generally across the board.
Eileen Rochford [00:07:02] Okay. That's really good to know. Thank you. Okay, so as our resident expert today Shay, you know that the title of this episode is "Are Employees Still Calling the Shots?" Given the state of the economy, all this belt tightening that we're seeing, the spates of layoffs that have come across, gosh, in the last five months that we've been seeing. And we discussed that at length in our last episode, and I think we cover that territory pretty well, but we didn't talk at all about the power dynamic. So are employees are still calling the shots from your perspective? What do you see?
Shay Lovett [00:07:40] Well, what we're seeing here, Eileen, is that unfortunately, you know, the ball is still in the hand of those employees and those candidates. You know, the shift in the market has not changed. You know, they're still in the driver's seat. You know, from our perspective and kind of what we're seeing out there, you know, with the employees calling those shots, they are asking some of those pretty bold requests. And if those requests are not granted, they are leaving and they are not making, you know, any qualms about that. You know, if you don't fit my need, if you don't fit my value, if you are not paying the salary expectation that I'm looking for, then, you know, they're leaving. And so, unfortunately, you know, employers are having to, you know, step it up and renegotiate, you know, different things just to keep that talent there.
Rob Johnson [00:08:37] And would you say that these employees are sort of playing the field so they're at their company, but they got one eye looking for maybe their next move. It goes beyond some of the things you were just talking about. Is that a factor as well?
Shay Lovett [00:08:51] Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. They are out there, you know, quite possibly interviewing as well. And, you know, we have seen some candidates and, you know, coming back to us and saying, "hey, my employer is, you know, wanting me to stay. So they've countered my offer, you know, what is it that you can do for me? You know, if you really want me." So they are definitely playing the field. The competition is very, very fierce out there. You know, we're looking at, you know, for every person, unemployed person, you know, there's about 1.7 job openings for that for that individual. So, again, you know, they hold all of the cards and, you know, it's their ballgame. And if you're not stepping up to the plate, you know, they're going to the next person down the line.
Rob Johnson [00:09:44] So would you say that, you know, we're sitting here and Eileen mentioned the last episode was about how do you message layoffs and that sort of thing. The question I'm curious to know about is, is it because the idea of a recession is newer and companies are now adjusting to it by shifting, you know, by contracting some of their workforce? Or is this recession or not? Is this going to be the way that you see things moving forward just because the power dynamic has shifted?
Shay Lovett [00:10:19] Yeah, I think this is going to be kind of, you know, the focal point or the groundwork for what we're seeing moving forward. A lot of these employees, like I said, you know, they are looking for a different value and a whole different mindset. And, you know, some of these things that we saw in the past, i.e. the hybrid work environment, you know, that before you know, prior to COVID, that was, you know, something that we normally did not do. But now that is definitely something that we are seeing going forward. And that's almost a demand for most of the candidates and the employees in their new "work environment." So, yeah, I don't see it being a shift anytime soon.
Eileen Rochford [00:11:12] I'm fascinated. So you just mentioned something that- it sounds like you're characterizing as now is a table steak, which is the remote working. Are there other table stakes that are now just the norm to be expected? So for employers to pay attention to the "these aren't going away" things, could you maybe list out a few of those for us?
Shay Lovett [00:11:34] Yeah, absolutely. Employees, rather, are now looking for more meaningful work. That's one of the demands now, in addition to the flexibility, if their values don't align really well with that company or if the work that they're doing doesn't matter to them, you know, that is one of the things that, you know, employees are looking for in their jobs. And then the overall benefit package, you know, from the PTO to the wellness packages to the pet insurance, the, you know, fertility assistance, you know, new baby benefits, these are all things that companies did not have, you know, on their radar screen prior to. But with this new generation coming in and this new set of values, this is what's important to them. So as they're, you know, seeking out new job opportunities or, you know, just wanting to stay at their own company, these are things that they're looking at. So, again, you know, these demands that we thought were temporary, they're now actually becoming to be more permanent because, again, they're in the driver's seat and they make no qualms about it. "You know, if you can't do these things, I will go to the next employer that can."
Eileen Rochford [00:12:54] So, yeah. So I'm curious, can we spend a second? You mentioned the benefits package and you briefly touched on PTO. What's the new norm in, you know, offers for new hires to company? What does PTO need to look like? What are you seeing?
Shay Lovett [00:13:11] So what I'm seeing is that even just like for those entry level positions, you know, minimum of, you know, 2 to 3 weeks of PTO just to start out. And then, you know, going up from there, we have seen, you know, some that are offering just sabbaticals. Time away just to, you know, for their mental health. You know, they don't want to get that feeling of burnt out, which I think we'll talk about that a little bit later on. But it's really all about "what can you do for me?" You know, days off for their birthday. Again, you know, prior to COVID and just kind of the world that we live in right now, these are things that employers didn't think about. But now to this, you know, new generation, so to speak, that's coming into the workforce. This is what's important to them. And so they're going to have to change that mindset, change that shift. Otherwise, they're going to lose out on some really good top talent.
Rob Johnson [00:14:13] I think that's a terrific idea. The birthdays off. I can recall years ago in my old business, I worked on my birthday and I had a boss, ripped me a new one, for lack of a better term, on my birthday. And I was like, "I'm never working on my birthday again." And for the most part, for the most part, I am. So the fact that they're proactively doing that, you know, "hey, on my birthday, I'm not going to have any negative thoughts going through my head. They're all going to be positive." So I love that idea, Shay. Give them their day off for their birthday, for goodness sakes.
Shay Lovett [00:14:45] Right, right.
Eileen Rochford [00:14:47] So it's funny, I had a job, like, 30 years ago, and that was one of the things I thought was the coolest about it was the family owned business. And I started and my birthday was the next day. So I was like, "Um.."
Rob Johnson [00:15:02] "Can I get a day off for that?".
Eileen Rochford [00:15:02] "Should I really take the day off?" It was so funny.
Rob Johnson [00:15:05] Did you tell them that, hey, by day two you're going to be locked and loaded. You're like, "I'm ready to roll on day two."
Eileen Rochford [00:15:11] Well that's beautiful. I'm glad that, you know, people are figuring that out. Thanks for explaining on the PTO.
Shay Lovett [00:15:19] Mm hmm.
Eileen Rochford [00:15:20] I have one question on this topic, again, it's kind of a follow up. I've actually been hearing from more than one client about- and these are small and mid-sized companies. And that's it sounds like, Shay, that's what you guys primarily serve. So I'm curious if you're experiencing this at all. Boomerang hire is on the rise.
Shay Lovett [00:15:40] Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Eileen Rochford [00:15:42] Let's talk about that. What's going on there? And that that still gives you leverage. Even if you're a boomerang hire, you still have leverage.
Rob Johnson [00:15:48] And make sure you explain it a little bit for people that may not be familiar with it.
Shay Lovett [00:15:51] Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, what we saw before, you know, the great resignation where everyone was actually leaving and quitting their jobs and, you know, all time highs. We also saw something called the great resignation. And that's just where, you know, companies are actually redefining their values, their brand and their relationships with their workers. And something that came up from that, it's just the boomerang employee. So those people that left and then now they're returning back to the company after, you know, they went off and, you know, experienced another employer. So these are going to be employees that are, you know, left the organization on the terms. And in actuality, it's a good thing that these employers are hiring the boomerang employee back because they're going to go out, they're going to gain that new experience. They can provide additional, you know, value to the company. And so in actually, you know, Christina Gianelli, who's a director of people operations with Epic Gnosis, which is a technology learning technology software provider, she mentioned in an article that, you know, hiring and onboarding new employees is much more expensive and time consuming than rehiring and re-onboarding former employees. And so she goes on to say that boomerang employees are already familiar with the company, the products, the processes, and can be very productive much more quickly. So a lot of these employers aren't taking back the people that did leave these boomerangs because they knew that they were top talent. They lost them because they could not compete more than likely with the salary. And so they left. And so now they're coming back and they're like, "Yeah, I'll take you all day, every day. You're fully trained, you know, exactly our process. You know what our company culture is about. I'll match your salary just to take you back, because the competition is so fierce out there."
Rob Johnson [00:18:00] So let me ask this in relation to that, because it sounds like employers are saying, "hey, yeah, I'll bring you back for all the reasons you just stated," but is there an element of, "hey, the grass is not always greener on the other side?" And because everything, as you pointed out, is tilted in the employee's favor still is that one area where employers might have a little say because they're welcoming back these people that left during the great resignation?
Shay Lovett [00:18:32] They do have a little bit of say and I just say just a very tiny amount because with them coming back, they're still having to increase that salary. So had they increased that salary prior to that person leaving, they would not have lost that top talent. So we are seeing, you know, employees that do stay. You know, they may think that the grass is greener over on the other side. So let me test out the waters. But eventually they will. I don't want to say they all will come back. But, you know, I don't know the reasons that they left, but they do come back and they are going to come back and they are going to want those certain things that they didn't have prior to. So even with the employer, they may have a little bit of leverage, but not so much because the employees that did not change their employers, we've also found out that in order to just save that employee, they had to raise their salary. So, at any rate, they're going to have to, you know, make some type of concession to make that employee happy, if that makes sense.
Rob Johnson [00:19:52] It does.
Shay Lovett [00:19:55] So it's best to just go ahead and focus on your talent that you have in-house that's already trained and listen to the employee and, you know, retain them.
Eileen Rochford [00:20:06] Great advice every time, for sure. One more thing. Sorry, I know you love how I just delve, delve, delve.
Rob Johnson [00:20:15] No, this is terrific. This is what we're here for.
Eileen Rochford [00:20:18] What are some of the more creative things that you've seen, Shay, that made the difference in an employee or, you know, a potential hire accepting a job or that they asked for? I'm just curious, like, what are some of the different, you know, anomaly things, but just maybe unusual, interesting that might spark some ideas for our listeners for things that they might consider offering.
Shay Lovett [00:20:46] It is going to be more around, again, that work environment, the hybrid, if not 100% remote. That's going to be non-negotiable with some of these, you know, new hires accepting these job offers. It is going to be around the more extended PTO policy, you know, giving me, you know, more than what my other employer, what the person down the street is offering as well. It could also be, again, and those benefits, you know, the fertility benefits, the new baby benefits, you know, the mental health, you know, benefits. What are some, you know, employee assistance programs, making sure that they have, you know, something like that in place. It's just basically more so around what can you do for me and how am I feeling valued? Do you understand my values? Am I aligned with your organization? So it's more so of just, "yes, I can do the job on paper and skill set, but what can you do for me holistically to be a well-functioning employee?"
Rob Johnson [00:21:58] So if you don't have a full complement of employee assistance programs, the ones you were just naming.
Shay Lovett [00:22:03] Mm hmm.
Rob Johnson [00:22:04] Is that your baseline? Do you have to have all those kind of as your baseline? Because I doubt in years past that was always the case. Is that the new baseline for, "okay, for starters, we have all of these things" or is that not commonplace at some of the folks that you do business with?
Shay Lovett [00:22:24] I think so, moving forward, because you have to understand that we are getting into a new generation that's coming into the workplace. And some of the things that may have been value added for the baby boomers may be totally different from millennials and these gen-zers that you see, you know, coming into the workforce. And those are the things that are important. So I would say if you do not have that in your overall compensation package or program, it might be something that you do want to look into moving forward if you want to attract that talent.
Eileen Rochford [00:23:06] Interesting. This is great. You repeatedly have talked about remote hybrid and things like that. It made me think of we actually have a team member right now because we're fully remote and have been forever. But this team member is working the entire month of October in Costa Rica because they've figured out there was only a one hour time difference. And this is kind of an idyllic time of year, you know, weather wise in that region they chose in Costa Rica. And I just love seeing their background out the window every day when we have meetings because it's a joy. It's a joy on many levels, right? That they are getting to experience that and it's bringing them such happiness, but also just getting to see the scenery. It's pretty great.
Shay Lovett [00:24:01] It is. And think about it. You know, again, that goes back to their mental health, you know, "what makes me happy?" And, you know, if an employer tells you "hey, I'm not sure if this position can be done remotely." I think COVID changed all of that. And so there are, you know, some positions, obviously, that you do have to be, you know, in the office or are on site for. But, you know, a lot of companies are moving to that remote setting to get those productive employees. Your employees are going to be happier, you know, when they have that good work life balance and allowing them to work in Costa Rica for a month, you know, that is something that's fabulous. If you're able to do that, you're going to create a happy employee and a productive employee.
Rob Johnson [00:24:51] And that's one of the biggest takeaways, I think, since COVID hit, when people realized, I can work anywhere. And you just mentioned the mental health piece and about being productive and about being happy and about being in a place where you don't mind putting in a full day of work if you're in, you know, paradise, for instance. And when we talk about what's permanent and what's not permanent, it feels like hybrid and remote work is going to stick around. It's not going anywhere. And in that regard, that will provide people like that the opportunity if they want to go here for a month or Costa Rica for a month or wherever, they'll have that option. And not only will they be productive, but Eileen will get to look at their their background and feel like she's there.
Eileen Rochford [00:25:34] That's right. There's the residual benefits for the rest of us. For sure. Yeah. All good points. Absolutely.
Shay Lovett [00:25:40] Yeah, and then with the remote work environment, I mean, we have, you know, employees that are outright saying, you know, "hey, if I cannot get a remote position, I'll leave. I'll go right down the street because I know that someone else will hire me." And then you do have just some employees that are just outright quitting. You know, they're willing to quit their in-person job just so they know that they are going to land, you know, that remote opportunity. So again, it's all about the value and what's important to me. And, you know, I keep saying it, you know, "what can you do for me?" They're holding all the cards.
Eileen Rochford [00:26:21] So people aren't necessarily following the "best time to look for a job is while you still have one" rule.
Shay Lovett [00:26:27] No, no, no, no. Because like I mentioned earlier, you know, there's, you know, almost two jobs, two open positions are opportunities for every person. So they know that the jobs are out there, you know, and especially if they are top talent. So they don't mind, you know, leaving because they'll land the perfect, quote unquote job of their dreams. You know, it's out there and I'm willing to go find it for my peace and happiness.
Eileen Rochford [00:26:55] Yeah. So you talked about finding meaningful work and values alignment, which we are totally in sync with and have talked about in a few different formats on this show. In your opinion, are you seen situations at all where job seekers are... their equation may be adding up to be, "oh, I want my pie chard to have-" I can fill more of it with meaningful work and values alignment than necessarily compensation. As long as they get things like the benefits package, the flexibility that they want, the values alignment, the meaningful work.
Shay Lovett [00:27:37] Mm hmm.
Eileen Rochford [00:27:38] Is that happening at all?
Shay Lovett [00:27:40] I mean, I think so, because you do have some employees where, you know, money is not their top priority or their top, you know, concern in my advice to my children or just candidates that I'm talking to, you're going to be spending 40 hours, if not more, at a position, you know, of your life. You have to make sure that you like it. You have to make sure that you love it. You have to make sure that it is a fit for you and you enjoy going to it because sometimes money, you know, it does help, but it's not everything. So you have to make sure you know that you enjoy what you do. Is it meaningful? Is it something that you can see yourself sitting in front of a computer or, you know, wherever for 8 hours out of your day? You have to be able to enjoy it. And it has to be that meaningful, value work.
Eileen Rochford [00:28:35] That's really good advice. I'm glad to hear that you're giving it and that, you know, people are still open to thinkimg along those lines because money sure isn't everything. That's absolutely right. Doesn't buy happiness, as they say.
Rob Johnson [00:28:50] There's things like flexiblity and absolutely there are other factors as well. And Eileen, I know that you're interested in this, as am I. And Shay, you've been kind of touching upon it around the edges, though, but it's we're talking about how millennials have reshaped the workforce. Right, Eileen?
Eileen Rochford [00:29:09] Yes, we are. We often were super fascinated with the impact of our younger generations, you know, millennials and Gen Z to some degree. But you've alluded to the different priorities, how they might be and likely are kind of wired differently when it comes to how they think about what work means to them and what they require of their employer, their own personal professional needs as well. How have millennials impacted the dynamic? You know, the push and pull between employers and employees, specifically. What's been their imprint on this?
Shay Lovett [00:29:52] Again, it goes back to that whole burnout aspect. Pay, like I said, may be the number one reason, you know, that people leave their jobs. But it's that feeling of the mental health and the burnout. And they don't want to create an environment where they just feel like they're working all the time. You know that whole workaholism aspect that we had generations before? That is completely, you know, out the door. I mean, it's a whole new ballgame right now. They are looking for the value add that the burnout, the quiet quitting. I know we'll talk about that hopefully a little bit later on. But with them coming into the workforce, you know, in about ten years, you know, they're going to make up 75% of the global workforce, right? So we have to make sure that these companies are on board with their new ways of thinking, because if not, again, they don't mind leaving, right? These millennials, they are not opposed to job hopping, to getting what they want. And that is definitely something, you know, that these employers, again, they're going to have to get on board with.
Rob Johnson [00:31:14] Well, we don't have to talk about it later. Let's talk about it now because it's fascinating. It's one of the things that we've seen come out of this whole different dynamic with employers and employees, which is the quiet quitting. Why don't you give people an idea? I know a lot of people know what it is, but why don't you frame it for us and explain, you know, how it's not necessarily helping companies when their employees are implementing this internally?
Shay Lovett [00:31:43] Yeah. So the concept of quiet quitting is actually, you know, like a Tik-Tok trend and it's something that has taken off, you know, with that millennial generation. And it's more so geared to, you know, employees not overextending themselves at work. So it's a way to kind of like safeguard your mental health, prioritize your family, your friends, things that you're passionate about. And again, you know, to avoid that burnout. So basically quiet quitting is, you know, you just don't overexert yourself. You give the bare minimum you're giving 100%, but you're not going to go over and you're not going to give, you know, that 110% because "You live to work. You don't work to live," is kind of their concept. So it's more so of, I'm going to get the job done. I'm going to do what I need to do. But there's no more or no less. And so that's the new generation that the millennials and then the Gen Z they're coming up with. That's going to be their motto. Workaholism is a thing of the past.
Eileen Rochford [00:33:01] So how does that change things, Shay? It sounds like with 75% of the population coming from that mindset, soon enough, you better get used to it. What's that going to mean? What will that look like?
Shay Lovett [00:33:14] So I think that that means that the managers, i.e. the boomers, if they are the Gen Xers, you know, they're going to have to get on board. You know, one thing, like I said, if they don't fit their mold, if they don't fit their value, they're going to move on to the next job. So, again, those employers, those managers, they're going to have to shift that mindset in order to keep that person, especially if you've trained them. You've invested in them, yqou've put value into that employee. You know, you're going to have to, unfortunately, do what you have to do to to change with the generation and that gap.
Rob Johnson [00:33:58] This is really fascinating because you're talking about people giving less. You can give 100% or near 100%, but not an ounce more. But what happens when these millennials are in positions of authority, as many of them are moving into now, where they know that quiet quitting is a thing because maybe it was with them and now they're managing people for whom this is the same mindset. Won't there be pushback in terms of the pressure to perform, to create value in your own company? Because if the managers and the employees are subscribing to quiet quitting, that can't be good for the company's bottom line. Although it sounds like we're shifting away from bottom line concerns with this new generation.
Shay Lovett [00:34:47] Yeah, that's why I was going to say, I think that when the new leadership kind of rolls around and rolls into play, you are going to see companies are going to change their values. They're going to change the way that they've done things in the past. And, you know, who knows right now, we could be calling it quiet quitting, you know, give us, you know, five, seven, ten years from now, it's going to be a new trend that's going to come up. And we're going to have a whole new, different, you know, aspect. I think that's the beauty of change. You know, it's inevitable, right? So right now, it seems, though, that the values and the same sentiments that the Gen Z this kind of aligning with the millennials. So right now, I wouldn't say that I would see it as, you know, an issue or a challenge, but you never know what holes. I mean, something else can come up into play and priorities and things may change and you'll see a totally different shift in mindset.
Eileen Rochford [00:35:54] Well, it kind of doesn't surprise me. Just observation. I guess I'll share. It seemed quite unsustainable. Wouldn't you say that everyone would be operating at this pace for their exorbitant hours with these levels of stress that we've endured? It just seemed unsustainable. So might this just be the kind of correction that the employment market needed?
Shay Lovett [00:36:21] Yeah, it was probably something that we probably needed to do a while back. It's just to have and embrace that work life balance, that flexibility. And so, like I said, change is not always a bad thing. Sometimes it could be good. And, you know, who knows what the future holds? We may, you know, wake up and see that, "you know what? Something else is important to me." And then, you know, we'll see the same type of shift all over again.
Eileen Rochford [00:36:48] So let's explore just for a minute, what might employers be saying/doing now to address this phenomenon of quiet quitting, which frankly, I take a little bit of issue with because it's such a negative perspective because when actually these people are just taking control of their lives and their health, which is kind of a good thing. Right?
Shay Lovett [00:37:18] Right.
Eileen Rochford [00:37:19] Yup.
Shay Lovett [00:37:20] I think it just goes back to just, you know, the company or the employer just reevaluating their brand. That whole great renegotiation, just evaluating their brand, their values and just making sure that as they are interviewing and seeking out that top talent, make sure that you are, you know, mentioning some of the benefits that you have or that you're doing to cater to them, right. You don't necessarily have to say the term "quiet quitting." You may say, hey, and we offer exceptional benefits around a flexible work environment, you know, extensive PTO. Drop those little bit of nuggets during the interview or offer process. And that's how you're going to secure that new level of generation, those millennials and those Gen Z ers in the workforce.
Rob Johnson [00:38:21] The great renegotiation. I love that there's another term that we got to get familiar with, Eileen.
Eileen Rochford [00:38:25] Nice.
Shay Lovett [00:38:28] Exactly. And there are all kind of terms that we come up with out here in the HR recruiting worl. And like I said, it's always an ever changing environment. And, you know, things of the past are long gone. It's a new generation, a new way of viewing things. And, you know, right now, employers they're not calling the shots. Sorry, they're not.
Rob Johnson [00:38:53] That's okay. I'm glad that you were able to set a straight especially after our last episode when we were talking about layoffs and that sort of thing. So this is very interesting. So this is a podcast, we don't have video. But Shay, I know you have a crystal ball right at your desk there. And so when you look into it on a daily basis, what do you see on the hiring front in 2023?
Shay Lovett [00:39:16] So I think that, you know, we are obviously probably about to start experiencing some layoffs. You know, that's going to be much anticipated. You know, they are saying that the ones that are working from home could possibly be the very first ones. But I think that, you know, it really depends on the position. I mean, we are starting to see, you know, with COVID kind of- I don't want to say tapering down, but becoming more of the "norm," a lot of the industries are getting back. So we are seeing jobs coming back into the workforce. The airline industry is up. The retail, hospitality, you know, those industries are up as well. It's more of the remote, you know, "what can you do for me?" So there's jobs that are out there. It's just, you know, what the employers are willing to do and what are they doing to retain their employees and how they're going to cater to this new up and coming generation of hiring?
Eileen Rochford [00:40:30] And it sounds like this is the time to get ahead of it. To really examine your existing perks, benefits packages, little things that you can do to make your employees feel special and loved and cared for. Don't take anything for granted, I guess.
Shay Lovett [00:40:51] Yeah. There's plenty of work out there to be shared. So you definitely, as an employer are going to have to kind of set yourself apart from those other organizations and companies, because gone are the days where we offer the same thing and you know, the employee does not have a choice. They have choices out there right now.
Rob Johnson [00:41:14] This is really fascinating. And I think when you first frame this discussion, Shay, especially coming off knowing that the recession is causing contraction in many companies, and you're like, hey, the employees are still calling the shots and they're still going to call the shots. And despite all of this, there's still almost two open jobs for every person looking for one. I mean, these are all really interesting facts and it really helps frame an argument. I wasn't sure how it was going to be framed. And this is really interesting.
Shay Lovett [00:41:46] I totally agree. Totally agree.
Eileen Rochford [00:41:50] Yeah. You've corrected some misconceptions on a lot of levels. It was good for all of us to hear today.
Shay Lovett [00:41:59] You're welcome! If nothing else, it's more so changing the mindset and things that we've done in the past before. You know, we definitely are going to have to do a shift.
Rob Johnson [00:42:11] So Shay Lovett with HR firm Insperity. We cannot thank you enough for coming on the Can You Hear Me? Podcast today. Your expertize, your knowledge, your deep knowledge has been much appreciated by Eileen and me.
Shay Lovett [00:42:26] Thank you so much. I appreciate you guys having me on board.
Eileen Rochford [00:42:31] And I would want to plug for you guys the Insperity blog, which I think is fantastic and I read regularly and would recommend to others. Is there anything else, Shay, in terms of resources that you might recommend for employers, you know, in the small to midsize to stay on top of what's happening right now?
Shay Lovett [00:42:54] Yeah. I mean just, you know, take a look at our website and Insperity (www.insperity.com). We definitely post regular updates of things of what's going on in the industries and trends that you may see. We do have our social media outlets as well where we, you know, do spotlights on trends that you may see going on in the industry, as well as spotlights on our employees as well. So that would definitely be a good resource to kind of stay up to date on, you know, how you all need to be changing and readjusting.
Rob Johnson [00:43:34] And, Eileen, we can put all this in our show notes for this episode, right?
Eileen Rochford [00:43:38] Absolutely. And I will do so. You betcha. So great. That's good additional advice and a nice note to end on. So that's going to do it for another episode of Can You Hear Me? I'm Eileen Rochford.
Rob Johnson [00:43:51] And I'm Rob Johnson. We thank you so much for listening and remind you, you can find Can You Hear Me? wherever you get your podcasts; Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts and more. Thanks for listening.