Companies and leaders are hypersensitive about developing and maintaining their brands. The question is, “What does it say about you?” Join Can You Hear Me? Co-hosts Eileen Rochford and Rob Johnson, as they welcome brand specialist Kevin Connor to the podcast, to talk about brand building, its changing landscape, and what it’s like to run his firm with his sister.
About Kevin Connor:
Modern Strategic Branding + Communications
- Business owner with his sister Diane since 1999.
- We put the lessons of big business brands in the small business communications toolbox. Company works with companies and organizations who aspire to be great.
- Professionally branded communications can increase both top and bottom-line revenue for companies that care. This added credibility enhances an organization’s confidence and character with clients, prospects and, most importantly, employees.
- We’ve been helping companies and organizations express who you are, what you do and why you do it – with coordinated and consistent language and images. Bringing your brand to life, both on and offline, is what we do for our clients.
- Kevin volunteers with community groups, presents on the value of communications and networking in business success and works with high school and college students in preparing them for the workforce. He believes the ability to improve interpersonal skills is a talent everyone can develop and use to their advantage personally and professionally.
Remember, if you want to move products, services or ideas, you must learn how to move people.
Website: canyouhearmepod.podcastpage.io
Subscribe to our newsletter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7373364855967461376
Eileen Rochford: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another edition of the Can You Hear Me podcast. I'm Eileen Rochford, CEO of the marketing and strategy firm The Harbinger Group.
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Rob Johnson: And I'm Rob Johnson, president of Rob Johnson Communications. As you know, we like to talk about building a brand that is authentic to you and resonates with the marketplace, and while we will be discussing that topic today, we will take it in a slightly different direction. Our guest today runs his marketing and branding firm, Modern SBC, with his sister, and has for many years.
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Eileen Rochford: That's right, let's welcome to Can You Hear Me? Kevin Connor, Principal at Modern SBC, where I believe you have, run and owned the firm for more than 25 years, is that right, Kevin? Oh my gosh.
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Eileen Rochford: Wow.
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MODERN SBC: this same company since May of 1988, I mean, and been the owner since June of 99, so 27 years this year.
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Eileen Rochford: That was fantastic. Yeah, well, welcome to the show. We're very grateful to have your expertise and you on our show today. But just to kick things off, we always like to start, by hearing our guests' origin stories, so that our listeners can get a sense
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Eileen Rochford: Of the expertise you're bringing to our conversation, and kind of how you got where you are in your professional journey.
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Eileen Rochford: True.
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MODERN SBC: That sounds fun. Great. So, I'll give it to you. You're looking at probably one of the worst finance majors that Town University ever graduated, because I took my first marketing class second half of my senior year, and, found out that I was probably in finance for the wrong reason.
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MODERN SBC: And always had a liking for marketing.
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MODERN SBC: Believe it or not, I just,
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MODERN SBC: As I shared before, so I used to watch Bewitched a lot as a kid, and if you remember, her husband, Darren, was in advertising. So I'm this 8-year-old fat kid stuffed my face with Fritos and soda just watching TV, and I'm paying more attention to him. I don't know why, though, so it's kind of, like, parked up in my head. I've just always been interested in consumers and what…
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MODERN SBC: what urges
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MODERN SBC: what influences people to buy certain things. So, I love going to grocery stores where you've got basically about 45,000 items on there, and just watching people, like, how do they choose? You know, because that's me. I mean, I'm doing the same thing, right? You just want detergent, or food, or candy, or they have vegetables, you're just watching. It's kind of fascinating. I think everybody's got this lab right around them.
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MODERN SBC: For just learning about marketing and branding and how it all works, so…
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Eileen Rochford: Yep.
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MODERN SBC: That was a very long answer to your very short question, my apologies, but, basically how it started, so…
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Rob Johnson: That's what we were looking for, we were looking for the backstory there. So,
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Rob Johnson: Let me… let me ask you the question that we… I think we all want to hear a little bit about, and that is…
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Rob Johnson: how you decided to go into business with your sister. First of all, what's her name, and how that sibling collaboration has worked out for you all? How did you decide, yes, we should do this together?
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MODERN SBC: Great question, that. Diana's her sister, is my sister's name, my apologies. And we came together. We were in similar businesses, and she had a business of her own, and…
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MODERN SBC: I call myself a desperepreneur. I did not set out to be an entrepreneur, but the business was going to be for sale, and the previous owner wanted to sell, and
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MODERN SBC: I had a wife and 3 kids at home with a brand new mortgage, a brand new house, and 6 weeks later, he said, I'm gonna sell the company, so I said, okay.
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MODERN SBC: And I wondered what it might be like to own the company myself, because he already had a buyer. He said, go meet the buyer. I come back, I'm like, man, I'm not the smartest guy, but maybe I can do what he's gonna do, and…
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MODERN SBC: Put it together, put a team together, myself and another guy, and we bought the other partner about 15 years ago. So it's me and my sister. So, Diane and I are two of seven kids.
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MODERN SBC: We are numbers 4 and 5, right in the middle. Sometimes… it's like a… we like to think that we're kind of the, the diplomatic ones in the middle.
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MODERN SBC: Maybe, maybe not, but, so, it became to be together. She said, you know what, you're gonna buy that company, why don't I just fold my business in, and we'll just have one company together.
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MODERN SBC: So that's what we've done since then.
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MODERN SBC: The closest…
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Eileen Rochford: So…
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MODERN SBC: Run.
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Eileen Rochford: What was her business that she was doing, I'm curious.
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MODERN SBC: We did a lot of, we were print, print distributors.
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Eileen Rochford: Okay.
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MODERN SBC: She's dealt with a lot of banks, and
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MODERN SBC: Believe it or not, nursery resale.
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MODERN SBC: So we did a lot of print, we sold print.
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Rob Johnson: So what made you think, let's go into this… let's do this together, why not? What gave you that notion?
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MODERN SBC: Opportunity was there, because, it was, we needed to, we needed to come up with some cash, and we were taking on investors, so…
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MODERN SBC: And she had an idea, and I always got along with my sister at birth.
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MODERN SBC: So, it's interesting, so I'll tell people that story, and invariably, I see them look up and to the right in their eyes, and I say, I know what you're thinking. They're like, what do you mean? I said, you're thinking, could I go into business with my brother or sister?
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MODERN SBC: And they're like, how did you know that? I was like, well, I've seen that look a thousand times, right? It just kind of… everybody's interested in that. I never really thought about it that much, and call me ignorant, I don't know, or naive, but I just kind of said, no, what could go wrong here? When you're 20, you know, I was 30.
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MODERN SBC: What can go wrong here? Well, lots of things. Now, there's… there's… we've come across family business organizations, and the stories we hear are just, like.
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MODERN SBC: Wow, a lot of stuff. Money and power can do interesting things to people, right?
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah, for sure.
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MODERN SBC: down for people at Thanksgiving or Christmas?
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MODERN SBC: they can do a little bit more. So, we've been very fortunate so far.
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah, what were the family dynamics like when you were growing up, and have any… has any of that kind of followed you into your business management together?
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MODERN SBC: Great question. So, my father sold Cadillacs and Cadillacs and Lincolns, basically what we did. So, we were seven kids, and it was probably much like you. We're having dinner, there's 2 parents and 7 kids, and we're just discussing. A lot of what we talked about was just kind of sales philosophy. I didn't know it at the time, but he was just in customer service. He'd share lessons with me.
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MODERN SBC: about customer service, how do you take care of people, and what might you see, and what to listen for. So, Diane and I kind of handle the sales part. Oddly enough, we really don't do what we… what we sell. Like, we go get the business and give it to the people that can do it. Then, we represent it. So, our job is to kind of be the hunters.
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MODERN SBC: Diane's more operational than I am, actually. She's kind of taken on that role, a little bit more so than me.
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Rob Johnson: But those are great skill sets, complementary ones, right? You're the… you're hunting, and she's operating?
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MODERN SBC: Yes, we've been very fortunate, exact, so…
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Eileen Rochford: And it sounds like you're… Sales training started very early in life for both of you, which is…
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Eileen Rochford: Big boon, right?
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MODERN SBC: Not that I knew it, it was always there. It's kind of that present and background, like, that sales mindset, right? Yeah. Just being around other people, and sometimes I still look at it like, oh my god, I missed that years ago, but now…
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Eileen Rochford: Sure.
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MODERN SBC: sense.
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Eileen Rochford: It's funny, Kevin, I share something, with you, just in one respect. My father was also, in sales, it was financial services, but essentially, you know, he's in sales, and client service, right?
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Eileen Rochford: that's a… that's, like, core to keep your… to retain those whose portfolios you manage. And I would listen to him, just in the background. I would hear him talking to clients on the phone at night, when he could reach these people. Many of them were teachers and, you know, union members and things, and so he could only talk to them at night, and he would do it
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Eileen Rochford: from our house, and I would hear how he walked them through things, and the kind of probing questions he would ask. So it's interesting how things like that, as early as, you know, your grade school years can have an impression.
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MODERN SBC: You're setting the tone, right? You're listening.
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah.
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MODERN SBC: So…
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Rob Johnson: And coming from big families, too, that's the other thing, right, Eileen?
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Eileen Rochford: Right. Yeah, we're gonna have to save that chat for another day.
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Rob Johnson: Right.
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah, that's probably not, you know, good for air.
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Eileen Rochford: There's a whole lot. So let's get back to the whole, you know, working dynamics of your… of you and your sister for just a sec. On our show, we love to talk about leadership communications, and how leadership teams, you know, function really well together, and stand as kind of the,
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Eileen Rochford: you know, symbols, examples of the… of the best way to communicate, you know, setting the tone, like you said. So, what would you say is the biggest plus of the two of you working together? And, and don't shy away from this one, what is the greatest challenge? Now, I'm gonna call her later and ask her…
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Rob Johnson: Fact check. We're fact checking.
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Eileen Rochford: Absolutely.
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MODERN SBC: West, nothing.
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Eileen Rochford: Do the show notes, yes, don't you worry.
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Rob Johnson: Oh, yeah.
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Eileen Rochford: and you will have your say. But let's hear it from your perspective, Kevin.
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MODERN SBC: That's a great question, and believe it or not, as many years we've been doing this, I'm not sure I've ever heard it put quite that way.
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MODERN SBC: So I think there's, we both… As I said before.
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MODERN SBC: Look, you're always different kids, right? No matter what the family, but we grew up in that mindset where I think we both have a sales-first mindset, because we've been there as salespeople, right? Nothing happens until somebody sells something to bring it in.
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MODERN SBC: And then… Being, try to manage the day-to-day.
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MODERN SBC: So that would say probably one of the biggest pluses. One of the biggest minuses, I think sometimes we're too much alike.
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MODERN SBC: And we can…
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MODERN SBC: we've both been told that we can be impatient sometimes by our brothers and sisters, they move to us a little bit different, where Diana and I are just like, alright, let's go, what's next, right? So, that's something we're working on being
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MODERN SBC: More patiently impatient.
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Eileen Rochford: Would you think that maybe, behind the impatience, there may also be just a… you have such a deep, shared understanding and familiarity that you kind of read each other's minds, or at least, you know, know what the other is probably thinking. You can finish each other's sentences.
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Rob Johnson: finishing sentences.
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah. Is that person?
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MODERN SBC: That sounds so noble, Eileen. I wish that you said that. I'd want to meet that person.
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Eileen Rochford: Sometimes…
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MODERN SBC: There is some of that, but so,
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MODERN SBC: There's this… so my son had speech difficulties in grade school, right? So he had speech therapists.
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MODERN SBC: And we're going to meet the speech therapist, and I'm just listening to her talk, and she's like, you know what? Like, you think like the speech therapist is the most kind-hearted person. She's like, sometimes I just want to reach out in there and just spot her in the back of the head and push that word out. I'm like, oh my god, you think like I do. Like, that's… and she's just like, if she can be patient, I was like, all right, I gotta do that.
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MODERN SBC: Oh, you said.
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Eileen Rochford: Okay.
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MODERN SBC: Yep, not everybody thinks, like, so, we bought a company a couple years ago.
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MODERN SBC: And I was led to the opportunity by a salesperson at the company. And she said, well, this… if she showed up on a Monday one day, and they told her at 10 o'clock we're gonna close the company, she's like, I've been here 30 years, what are you going to do with your hundreds of customers? She's like, we don't… you know, they had… they had made their money on the tech
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MODERN SBC: Trajectory of something else, so this business was just kind of sitting here.
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MODERN SBC: And they were, like, making this bit of money, it was easy money, but they're just… they're just, we're just gonna close it down.
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MODERN SBC: So she's frantic.
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MODERN SBC: And she calls, like, a common supplier we have, and she said, like, this is gonna happen, I don't even know what to do. She said, well… she said, well, what if I find a buyer? Like, all right, I'll give you 48 hours. She's like, 48 hours? Like, she had never been the groundhog above the… coming above the…
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MODERN SBC: But they call those things in offices, like, cubicles. She's like, holy sugar, I don't know anybody, you know? And she's… and I had just talked to this guy about a month ago, and I said, this is what we're looking for. He said, just call this guy, Kevin. She's like.
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MODERN SBC: who the frick's Kevin, right? Just call me, talk to him and talk about what's happening. So I talked to her, I said, yeah, it was a perfect opportunity for us. So I got in touch with the owners.
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MODERN SBC: Right? I had, like, a Zoom call like this with the owners, and she was like, do you want me to be on the call? The sales were like, do you want me to be on the call? And they're like, no. Right? And I talked to her, and I said.
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MODERN SBC: How come you don't offer it to her? Instead, like, why are you talking to me?
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MODERN SBC: And a brief pause. He said, you know what, Kevin?
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MODERN SBC: There's employers, and there's employees. She's going to be employed. She's not going to be an employer. Want to take everything under the…
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MODERN SBC: Right? Like, just manage everything.
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MODERN SBC: So I just kind of, like… I'd heard… I'd thought about it before, but a lot of things probably take for granted. You're just used to being…
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MODERN SBC: You're running the show, but not everybody wants to do that. Some people just want to clock out and say, I'm done.
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Eileen Rochford: Sure, it's a lot of responsibility.
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MODERN SBC: Does that answer your question? I'm not sure if that kind of rounds that way.
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Rob Johnson: That was…
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah, really cool example, but gosh, I bet you're pretty grateful to that woman for her ingenuity and figuring out to even ask the question, and then.
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MODERN SBC: Yes.
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MODERN SBC: You know what, and I'll share kind of a…
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MODERN SBC: a backstory to that story, like, so she was there, and she's like, oh my god, I've been waiting for it. Like, I've been working at this company for 30 years, and just selling this. I've been waiting for somebody to come along. Like, everything that you folks do, more marketing, I want to do. This is great, I can't wait to do this.
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Eileen Rochford: So it was great for her, too. That's wonderful.
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MODERN SBC: Five years later.
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MODERN SBC: Still having the same conversation. No new business, just being a farmer. Not really stretching, and that was the hard part, like, I wanted to send this duck to Eagle School.
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MODERN SBC: Right? And, like, just have her go. But I just couldn't… either I wasn't the best manager, or I just never… she just didn't really want to change, and it was difficult. We had to part ways.
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Eileen Rochford: Interesting. That's… that is so reassuring, because, you know, we all have been there, and sometimes I, you know, we get stuck as entrepreneurs and owners.
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MODERN SBC: just, like.
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Eileen Rochford: beating ourselves up, like, why couldn't I do this, and why can't you do it, and what the heck, you know?
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Eileen Rochford: a decision to part ways.
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Rob Johnson: You're patiently impatient, as you mentioned.
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Rob Johnson: How does that… how does that manifest itself? Because you mentioned that as a challenge that you have with Diane, as you run your business.
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Rob Johnson: How does that manifest itself? How do you check yourself and say, okay, I'm learning a few things here, I need to be more patient? How does that play in your world?
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MODERN SBC: I have… I've been very fortunate with people, a couple of people you have here, the long-term people, and look at me and Kevin.
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MODERN SBC: this…
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MODERN SBC: They knew when to tell me to say, guess what, you're being… you're being that person again, right? You don't want to be the… I've given them a latitude, and to say, look, you gotta smack me, because if you're saying it, chances are excellent, I'm carrying that out into the field and working with clients.
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MODERN SBC: And just trying to be a little bit more…
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MODERN SBC: Not as goal-oriented, so to speak, or just working on the relationship. So it's very humbling for me, it's not… I don't think it comes easy.
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MODERN SBC: To me. Maybe some people it does, but…
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Eileen Rochford: Hmm.
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MODERN SBC: So… I gotta work at it. Thank you both.
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Eileen Rochford: Oh, yeah.
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MODERN SBC: Right?
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Eileen Rochford: I'm curious about, has… can you think of a time when
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Eileen Rochford: Like, you realize, oh my god, my impatience just really… I just got burned. Bad.
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MODERN SBC: Yes, mostly, not necessarily with employees,
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MODERN SBC: I think mostly with clients where you're just…
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MODERN SBC: I'm trying to give you an example, right? We were pushing things along too fast, and they didn't digest what we do. So, not that there's,
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MODERN SBC: We're not doing rocket science, right? But brand development and content creation, it's not something that everybody else buys every day.
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MODERN SBC: So in my head, I'm used to doing it. They're just, like, a little bit slower and steadier. You just gotta work and meet them where they are.
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MODERN SBC: And just slow down, like, you know, I can… I can beat that foot at the bottom, like, I'm beating my foot at the bottom here, you know what I mean? Just waiting for you, but trying to be the smoother, easier one. And… and trying to help them get… climb the steps, right? Because I… and I think sometimes that I'm able to help
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MODERN SBC: We're all able to best help people, that person what we have been before.
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MODERN SBC: Does that make sense? Like, I know what they're going through, because I've gone through that, and like, I'm probably…
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MODERN SBC: certainly capable of helping Eileen or Rob kind of come up here, because I was with it, right? You were questioning, you're like, you know, it's a big spend. Guess what?
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MODERN SBC: Are you gonna sit around here for, you know, your biggest competitor, I would say is,
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MODERN SBC: What's the word? What's that phrase I can't think of? The way things are, and your inertia, right? You're status quo. Like, one of your biggest competitors is status quo, not doing anything.
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Eileen Rochford: The risk of inertia, absolutely.
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MODERN SBC: Chris, there you go, thank you.
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Eileen Rochford: You're welcome.
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MODERN SBC: I'm gonna write that down. Thank you very much.
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Rob Johnson: You know what I love about this conversation? And it happens in many of our episodes, where you go down a road you didn't think you were gonna go down? The impatience conversation ended up being this.
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Rob Johnson: And I don't want to speak for Eileen, but I will speak for myself and say the reason I'm so fascinated about it is because I've had to learn that a little bit better, and I have probably been called impatient on one or more occasions in my career and life, so it's really interesting to have you kind of look introspectively at how you're dealing with it, because I think people that may be listening, too.
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Rob Johnson: Who realize they have some impatience issues are fascinated to hear what you have to say.
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MODERN SBC: I don't believe… you know what, and if I had just met you before, like, if we were describing something, I'd say.
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MODERN SBC: No, Eileen and Rob to say no.
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MODERN SBC: I've been called impatient for it, so if I am, giving you right to just kind of slapping around and pushing me back. So it's almost like throwing it out on the table, kind of, like, takes that pink elephant away, you know what I mean?
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Eileen Rochford: It does…
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MODERN SBC: for me, so I'm just gonna put it out there, and I think it…
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MODERN SBC: there's a certain amount of humanizing, like, we're just… I'm not this perfect robot, you know? Like, I'm not working at the State Department, where it's just, like, life and death either way, right? I'm just… sometimes it's…
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MODERN SBC: sometimes there's better days than others, but I want to do well, I want to be that person, right? You're kind of wanting to be better, and just wish I was a better communicator that way, so… but you're working on it, so…
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Rob Johnson: We always are.
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MODERN SBC: Yeah, it's part of the fun. It is. I don't know if I've ever really gotten myself any… Stikes…
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MODERN SBC: I said to a customer one time, like, as silly as it sounds, like, this is so pig-headed, right? You just… I saw her in the lobby, it was, like, 5 o'clock, and I was like, Lisa, you really look tired. And I totally missed it, like, and she was just like.
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MODERN SBC: Thanks, Kevin, that's great.
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Rob Johnson: Oh my god.
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MODERN SBC: Like, how stupid. I never saw… I never put two and two together, and just like… but I've never made that mistake before. Again.
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah, yeah.
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MODERN SBC: Another time I walked into the office one time, I was cold calling, and this guy, I went to the front desk, and I said, I'm looking to speak to the person in charge of this. Oh, that's, Mary, she's over there. So I walk about 20 yards away, she couldn't hear me. I walk up to her, I said, excuse me, Mary? And she turns around, and she was maybe…
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MODERN SBC: 30, 40 years older than me, and she looks up at me, like, kindest face, almost like grandmotherily, right? She says, do I know you?
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MODERN SBC: And I said, and I said, no, we don't do that. What gives you the right to call me by my first name?
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Rob Johnson: She came to me about, oops.
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MODERN SBC: And I know the exact day that happened. That was May… March 17th, 1989. Like, you just remember that day, I know exactly where it was, and I had never made up and say, it's Mr. and Mrs. until you tell me to…
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Eileen Rochford: So something's…
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MODERN SBC: You can't learn in a book, you know, like…
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MODERN SBC: Like, Dad, how come you never told me that? Well, guess what?
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Rob Johnson: For some people, that was St. Patrick's Day that year, and for you, it was this moment you'll never.
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MODERN SBC: I forget. Man, I probably drank that too, but not…
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Eileen Rochford: That's unreasonable. Sure.
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Rob Johnson: You know what I realized?
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MODERN SBC: That's right, to take with?
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Rob Johnson: Absolutely. You know what I'm really interested in, too? You said it very early on in the conversation about a desperate
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Rob Johnson: entrepreneur, and then you were touching on the entrepreneurial journey a little bit. I would like to ask you to dive in a little bit more on Desperpreneur, if I'm saying that the right way, and what you've learned in your years as an entrepreneur.
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MODERN SBC: Great question there.
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MODERN SBC: desperate, I guess, desperate to… I guess there's some people that just sit out, like, I'm gonna be the boss, I want my own company and do this, and I've always been…
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MODERN SBC: Maybe a little bit more comfortable on the margins a little bit, like the
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MODERN SBC: The chief of staff or something like that, you know, that don't necessarily need to be the numerono.
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MODERN SBC: So I guess I just never really thought about that. But I, like, probably, like, you think back.
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MODERN SBC: you know, when I was a kid, you're roaring around your shoveling driveways, like, I was doing it, like, I just went out, I didn't know any skill, but I was out there, I just wanted money, you know what I mean? So maybe there was more entrepreneurial DNA in the blood than I thought.
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MODERN SBC: Don't know about that. I'm still working through that.
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MODERN SBC: And an entrepreneurial journey is something I've learned, and get… what I've learned a lot is get around other entrepreneurs.
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MODERN SBC: Because sometimes just…
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MODERN SBC: that tide can rise, right? You start to see things in yourself, which you may have questioned in your own behavior. You're like, maybe that's… maybe that's okay. You know, let's… let's flip that around, and just… what's the plus sides of that? And take it and run it, because not everybody is gonna…
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MODERN SBC: be that… some people who's going to be that employee, right? I want to be… I want to say I've been to Ducks, or, you know, Eagle School. I don't want to be sitting there as a duck the whole time.
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah, that's… that's excellent advice, to surround yourself with others, running, you know.
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Eileen Rochford: Companies similar, or kind of tangentially related, that's…
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MODERN SBC: You don't want to be the smartest person in the room. I don't want to be the smartest person in the room.
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Rob Johnson: That's why I love hanging out with Eileen, because I know I never am.
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MODERN SBC: Baum bum.
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Eileen Rochford: Oh, man!
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Rob Johnson: That was good.
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MODERN SBC: It's a softball pitch.
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Rob Johnson: Well, that's good.
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MODERN SBC: Great.
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Eileen Rochford: I love it! Thank you, I will take that one.
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MODERN SBC: But there's so many stories around entrepreneurs, and I'm sure you do the same thing. You're around people, they just have stories, they've got stuff going on, they're doing stuff, and you're just… it's exciting, it's inspiring. It is. It's enthusiastic to be around.
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Eileen Rochford: Completely agree. It's great, great advice. I've personally,
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Eileen Rochford: I've, been a part of a group of agency owners.
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MODERN SBC: Have you really? Yeah, for quite a.
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Eileen Rochford: Wow, yeah, and, the… the group…
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Eileen Rochford: conversations are great, you know, there's often a speaker, and that's kind of related to, you know, running your business effectively, or kind of issues or trends related to communications agencies, things like that. But honestly, it's the relationships with other agency owners whom I met through the group, or just reconnected with, because
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Eileen Rochford: I may have known them in past lives, and we… well, lo and behold, we ended up also, you know, both of us, or all five of us, running our own businesses, but who knew that when we were interns when we were 22? That would be the case, right? I know. But reconnecting with them, and then just…
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Eileen Rochford: having conversations about, what do you struggle with, and how did you solve for that? And is it worth going to…
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Eileen Rochford: you know, different, you know, programs for, you know, like, certificate programs from Chase and things that help with, you know.
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MODERN SBC: tour.
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Eileen Rochford: Like, we're getting really honest, honest answers from people in similar seats in different places who, you know, there's no competition, it's just…
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MODERN SBC: We're just looking to push each other, right?
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Eileen Rochford: I, like, I… I… and most people who join groups like that are really selfless in that they want to help bring up other people and, you know, help them to learn, you know, from the mistakes that they may have made. That's what I have found, and I… so I… I second that. It's a… it's a very valuable resource, and also just…
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Eileen Rochford: It helps me… to see…
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Eileen Rochford: how… how others explain their brands, and how they differentiate themselves in the marketplace. Not for comparison purposes, but just like, oh, wow, that's so powerful, you know, let's look at our own… my own company and think, could we take that higher? So it's great, it's very, inspiring and encouraging, so…
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MODERN SBC: Sometimes it's difficult, I find it sometimes difficult in our business. Like, if you're an engineer, you know, people get it. You're an accountant, you're a lawyer, you're a plumber, you're not gonna do that one day, but…
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MODERN SBC: And basically, what we're doing You can't not communicate.
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MODERN SBC: Right? Like, you're always communicating in some way, shape, or form what you do. People ask that, what do you do exactly? Well, you know, it depends… you try to relate it to something that they do, because they don't always see it.
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MODERN SBC: it's not very visual sometimes. It is. Because we sell intangibles, right? Sell intangibles?
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Eileen Rochford: Really? We do.
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Rob Johnson: And communication is, like many things, it requires self-awareness. So you could sit there and say, oh, we're great at it, we have a marketing department, we're terrific, and you're like, oh, okay. And then other people say, you know, we could be better at that, and then I'm like, oh, okay, now we need to continue this conversation.
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Rob Johnson: But if you don't have that self-awareness, then you're never going to be able to be a supreme communicator, in my opinion.
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Eileen Rochford: No doubt. 100%.
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MODERN SBC: Wow. They are always getting better, you always get better, and you pay attention to the people you've gone there before, and you get to listen to them, like, wow, I just love how they said that, right?
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah.
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MODERN SBC: I always think, like, if I always wanted a government job, it would always be in the State Department. It's never like being a president or vice president, always the State Department, like, diplomatic, and just have language and vocabulary at your skill, like, oh my god, that's the perfect word. Like, you just want to chop off your tongue, because that was said so perfectly, I couldn't even write that, right?
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Eileen Rochford: I know.
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MODERN SBC: So, yeah.
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MODERN SBC: That's awesome.
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MODERN SBC: So…
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Eileen Rochford: One of my measures of, like, kind of great…
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Eileen Rochford: examples of people who are… CEOs in particular that I interact with, of, you know, how I compartmentalize, like, or rate them in my head, is, the thank you note.
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Eileen Rochford: And I… I have a wall of thank-you notes that I have received, handwritten, from different leaders and CEOs over the years, and they're… just their beautiful… the choice of their words.
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Eileen Rochford: The crispness of their sentences, the meaning that they convey in these, you know, 5-, 6 sentence thank you notes.
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Eileen Rochford: It's incredible, and it's… it's very interesting how, for me, it… there… the, like, if I had to rank
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Eileen Rochford: the best communicators I've ever worked with, who were CEOs and leaders of, you know, clients we've had.
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Eileen Rochford: those, the best communicators also send thank you notes, and they write great thank you notes. Yes.
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Rob Johnson: It's a lost art, so it's, I mean, that's…
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Eileen Rochford: Funny example. Yeah, funny example.
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MODERN SBC: Did you just… you ever hear them called bread and butter notes?
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah, yeah.
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MODERN SBC: I've never heard that term before.
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah.
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MODERN SBC: Two weeks ago, I was like, that's awesome, right? But I agree with you, being able to put pen to paper in… so I volunteer at a high school leadership and business camp in the summer, so I'm dealing with about 20, 16, 17-year-old kids every year. I just get them handed
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MODERN SBC: And they're just like, what? Like, you put a pen to paper? Like, how long is it gonna take? I'm like, you know what? A monkey can write an email, but you're gonna stand out more if you're writing.
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Eileen Rochford: Yeah.
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MODERN SBC: with a pen and paper, put a stamp on it. I know you have to wait, like, 2 or 3 days, but they'll… trust me, they'll remember. I've gone into clients' offices where they're… I see my thank-you note sitting there, and just like.
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MODERN SBC: Right? And they're just…
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Rob Johnson: I'm glad you did.
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MODERN SBC: How many people do it? They just don't do it. You stand up and grow, that's what I think.
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MODERN SBC: If you can read my handwriting, you're even better, right?
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Rob Johnson: problem, because sometimes it gets a little messy, and I'm like, I'm not sure they're gonna figure out every word.
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MODERN SBC: Family.
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MODERN SBC: I'm scooping right over my pen there. Oh, yeah.
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Eileen Rochford: rewrite mine every time. Like, I will write it on regular paper before I get to the stationery, at least twice.
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MODERN SBC: Oh, it's just you, nobody else goes through that.
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MODERN SBC: Oh my god, right.
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Eileen Rochford: I just…
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Rob Johnson: Having her stationary, though, very smart.
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Eileen Rochford: My hands have stopped knowing how to write, so it's like I have to retrain myself, you know?
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MODERN SBC: You ever get to that second-to-last word, and you screw it up, you know.
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Rob Johnson: You're like, oh, I gotta start all over again.
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MODERN SBC: I've done that, yeah. I feel like I'm back in high school, right?
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Eileen Rochford: It's still worth trying, though.
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MODERN SBC: It is.
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Eileen Rochford: One more meaty question for you, I think.
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MODERN SBC: Right?
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Eileen Rochford: And that is… so you've been doing this for quite some time, brand building.
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Eileen Rochford: Let's look at… or tell us about what did brand building mean when you first got in the business, and now, today, 25-ish years later, what does it mean? What are the differences between them? And, you know, how does that kind of play into your… what you do for a living?
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MODERN SBC: Terrific question, and, thinking about that. It's interesting, in fact, think back in the 80s.
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MODERN SBC: people… a lot of people can say there's technology difference, right? We're all dealing with technology.
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MODERN SBC: it seems to me there's a power issue, in that back in, let's just say, the mid-'80s, right? So you had, you know, TV, radio.
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MODERN SBC: made print, and you had billboards, right? Now, so the brand is in control of their brand.
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MODERN SBC: now I'd say the power shift has gone to the consumers, where I can pretty much access you wherever I want. TV may be still there, radios may be still over there, there's streaming, there's podcasts, right? There's still some print, there's email, constantly relentless
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MODERN SBC: Email and texting. Instagram, there's so many more channels that you all have to manage where you're gonna be and how you show up.
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MODERN SBC: And they can… consumers can pretty much access it when they want, not necessarily waiting for you.
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MODERN SBC: Does that make sense?
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Eileen Rochford: It's a great answer. Oh, yeah. Huge, huge difference. That's the biggest channel, is the…
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MODERN SBC: Which I think is good. Personally, I think it puts it on all of us. We're not necessarily just dictating what ABC big consumer product company, wants us to believe. There's a lot of options, right? And there's a lot more outlets, there's a lot more value propositions.
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MODERN SBC: So…
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Eileen Rochford: Individualization, you know, tailoring, yeah.
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Rob Johnson: Kevin, you've given us plenty of nuggets of wisdom.
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Rob Johnson: But before we go…
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Rob Johnson: Is there any thought, anything you'd like to share, leave our listeners with today as we say goodbye? Because it's really been an enlightening conversation.
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MODERN SBC: I'll say one of the key… people often ask you, right, the keys to your success, whatever success looks like, I will say, you know what, I'm just pretty curious. Sounds pretty simple, like, I'm…
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MODERN SBC: I'm not the… I don't consider myself the smartest guy, I just ask a lot of questions. I like talking to people, because I'm curious as to what they're going to say and where they're going to take it.
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MODERN SBC: So I would say, you know, kids ask, how do you get where you are? I was like, look, I just grip and grin. I'd say, just pretend you're running for office, right? You're running for office on a campaign for the rest of your life. You're just gripping and grinning, saying hi, you're kissing babies, shaking hands, shaking babies, kissing hands, whatever you want to call it.
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MODERN SBC: You're just talking to people and finding out about them.
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MODERN SBC: Because they don't care about me, they want to talk about themselves, right? Of course. Or share the stories with you, and it's more fun that way, and if you're just genuinely curious, like, man, come up with really odd questions. And I told all my kids, I have 3 children, they're all in their 30s, they're all directive citizens, right? So, look, your mother and I, neither one of us were in the National Honor Society. Like, your DNA
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MODERN SBC: questionable at best, you know, middle management best. No, I don't say that, but you get the drill. I say, look, just have questions in your back pocket all the time. Just be able to walk up to somebody, and just sit next to them on the park bench, and just ask them questions.
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MODERN SBC: start talking, like, what do you normally do on a Monday night at 5 o'clock, or something like that? But it gets the pressure on them, the person asking the question will kind of dictate where they want the conversation to go. That may sound
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MODERN SBC: may sound patient, may sound kind of egotistical, but I find more often than not that, much like Rob said, you start here, and you're pretty soon, you're just talking about over here, and…
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MODERN SBC: I've had opportunity come to me more often than I can count that way.
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MODERN SBC: Just, and you, like, probably like you, your clients, and you're like, how did I get here, right? You go back, you're like, oh my god, I met this person, I said hi to them, I walked in the room, and just like, hey, start talking.
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MODERN SBC: So, I don't have easy answers for that, but I find the more…
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MODERN SBC: people, I'm just gonna leave with curiosity.
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MODERN SBC: Again, a very long answer, you're a very short question.
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Rob Johnson: Oh, it's That's…
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MODERN SBC: That's terrific.
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Rob Johnson: what we were, what we were looking for. Kevin Connor, Principal at Modern SBC, thank you so much for joining us today on Can You Hear Me?
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MODERN SBC: And then, Rob, thanks you both for the opportunity. You've, you hit some points that I hadn't thought about in a while, so it's good to talk to them.
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MODERN SBC: Super.
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Eileen Rochford: Great to have you with us.
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MODERN SBC: to everybody.
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Eileen Rochford: So that's gonna do it for this episode of Can You Hear Me?
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MODERN SBC: Are you rock.
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Eileen Rochford: If you would like to comment on the podcast, or give us an idea for a future topic for our show, just contact us on our page, on LinkedIn, and don't forget to subscribe to the Can You Hear Me? newsletter on LinkedIn as well. Look us up there!
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Rob Johnson: Absolutely. I'm Rob Johnson. If you like what you heard, please consider giving Can You Hear Me a positive review wherever you get your podcasts, such as Apple or Spotify. It really helps other listeners find the podcast, and… one more promotional effort here, please check out our new… brand new website.
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Rob Johnson: at canyouhearmepod.beam.ly. We'll leave that address in the show notes, and we do thank you for listening.